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  1. #1
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    Canada - Mariam Makhniashvili, 17, Toronto, 14 Sept 2009 - #6

    Please continue here.

    Prayers that Miriam is home SOON!

    Salem


    Thread 5
    Last edited by KateB; 05-02-2015 at 06:32 PM. Reason: repair url tag.

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    Reposting the You Tube video of Mariam's One Year Later (You are not forgotten) Press Conference, that Antiquegirl posted on previous thread:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3lDkCbz6Bs

    Also found this other You Tube Video Missing Teen Mariam Makhniashvili Press Conference slide show, Toronto (1 year anniversary), which contains images that we haven't seen before.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKfuD...eature=related


    PS: will try to do some screenshots of new pics later (unless those are already in latest news articles).
    Last edited by KateB; 05-02-2015 at 06:32 PM. Reason: repair url tag.
    My posts are merely my humble opinion. Unless you are quoting within Websleuths Forums, you do not have my permission to copy nor use any post made by me for anything.
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    Missing Children Society of Canada + Crime Stoppers Can Help Find Missing Teen Mariam Makhniashvili
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRvcy...eature=related

    How to 'Leave A Tip' on Facebook Anonymously to Crime Stoppers Worldwide
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5LPE...eature=related

    Last edited by KateB; 05-02-2015 at 06:32 PM. Reason: repair url tag.
    My posts are merely my humble opinion. Unless you are quoting within Websleuths Forums, you do not have my permission to copy nor use any post made by me for anything.
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    Now that Georgia is making some headway in the film world, perhaps they can put a little something together for the Makhniashvili family. I was suprised that the Georgian/English newspaper did not mention the one year anniversary of Mariam's disappearance,especially as they still have family there!

    http://www.geotimes.ge/index.php?m=home&newsid=22684
    Georgian, French, Azerbaijan film for Oscar
    Film Division - a joint production of Giorgi, Azerbaijan and France has been nominated for Oscar award. The film is a journey of a famous photographer in childhood is a mystic work, which has been nominated for the Best Foreign Language Movie. Georgian actor Zaza Bezhanishvili plays key role in it.
    Rustavi2

  5. #5
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    from:Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CANADA Canada - Mariam Makhniashvili, 17, Toronto, 14 Sept 2009 - Thread #5

    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl
    According to Mariam's parents, the girl barely left their side in the few short months she was in Canada. Additionally, LE found no traces of contact with anyone suspicious on her home computer or the others she had access to. Pretty sure they checked her phone records, as well. I wonder how it would have been possible for her to be groomed without leaving a single clue behind.
    Those details about "grooming" were specifics in relation to Jessie Foster, just to show that not all HT victims are disenfranchised. Grooming can take various forms and timeframes, and probably won't be the same in all cases. IMO, it is Mariam's LACK of social connections and the exceptionally strict monitoring of her activities that leads me to wonder if she may have been more vulnerable and hungry for social acceptance. She had friends in Georgia, but had not acquired even one in Canada. Young girls don't hang forever with brothers, moms and dads. Branching out towards independence happens at some point. As an example, she may have been befriended in the hallways by a girl at the school, or someone at the dragon boat races. Maybe she did just want to fit in at her new school, new country, and therefore was vulnerable to any attention paid her by other students. Large cities, including Toronto, are very criminally sophisticated and a lot of high school kids are involved at the street level in sophisticated organized crime. Subtle coercion might explain no violent confrontation or abduction witnessed by others. Could be something as simple as a boy/girl telling her a few times how pretty she looked, then meeting her that morning and encouraging her to come with them while they visited a friend in the restaurant across the street for coffee ... or she was encouraged to go with someone who said they had to run home to get needed school supplies, where others waited at that location.

    Even intelligent, shy, studious teens can be subjected to peer pressure ... the first time I played hookey, smoked a cigarette, had a drink was due to someone else's encouragement. Had it not been for the influence of others, i would have turned into the perfect adult specimen, albeit a bit boring

    Every case is different and, given the lack of evidence or any of us knowing what really transpired in Mariam's case, these are just possibilities/examples that come to mind.
    Last edited by KateB; 05-02-2015 at 06:32 PM. Reason: repair url tag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl
    Additionally, LE found no traces of contact with anyone suspicious on her home computer or the others she had access to. Pretty sure they checked her phone records, as well
    So we can look at both sides of the coin ... If Mariam didn't walk off into the sunset of her own volition and was somehow abducted or lured by others, that very lack of computer/phone evidence would indicate that any contact she had with others involved in her disappearance was in some other fashion (possibly face-to-face contact whether students or teacher at her school, neighbours in her apartment building or surrounding area, at the boat races, etc.)

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    Originally Posted by antiquegirl
    According to Mariam's parents, the girl barely left their side in the few short months she was in Canada. Additionally, LE found no traces of contact with anyone suspicious on her home computer or the others she had access to. Pretty sure they checked her phone records, as well. I wonder how it would have been possible for her to be groomed without leaving a single clue behind.
    Quote Originally Posted by sillybilly View Post
    So we can look at both sides of the coin ... If Mariam didn't walk off into the sunset of her own volition and was somehow abducted or lured by others, that very lack of computer/phone evidence would indicate that any contact she had with others involved in her disappearance was in some other fashion (possibly face-to-face contact whether students or teacher at her school, neighbours in her apartment building or surrounding area, at the boat races, etc.)
    Excerpts from both You Tube Videos posted above (post #2) from Press Conference -- Det. Sgt. Dan Nealon.
    Please feel free to correct and add to list:

    EVIDENCE: To date, there has been
    -- No evidence to suggest that she had been abducted
    -- No evidence to suggest that she had been lured for any nefarious activity
    -- She showed no signs of depression or suicidal thoughts
    -- There is no evidence to suggest that she run away
    -- There is no evidence to suggest that she took flight from the country
    -- There is no evidence to suggest that she ever felt victim to any misadventure or accident.

    "All these working theories have been researched and to date, there is nothing which will support anyone of those".

    Tips of POSSIBLE SIGHTINGS: all investigated and proven to be false.

    SURVEILLANCE VIDEO: in 5 Km radio : thousands of hours of video reviewed on real time.
    My posts are merely my humble opinion. Unless you are quoting within Websleuths Forums, you do not have my permission to copy nor use any post made by me for anything.
    ★ Thank you ★

  8. #8
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    All I can think of is that she met with someone she thought she could trust. I am going back to the story I heard twice now from my elderly neighbour who claims that in her son-in-law's office works this woman who lives on Vesta Drive and who apparently saw, while walking her dog, Mariam and George part their ways, and then she walked along Eglinton and saw Mariam going out at the front door ( where she apparently went in....) heading towards the coffee shop. The one going east is Coffee Time. I asked my neighbour did this woman report her sighting to the police, and she said: yes. I do not know what to think about this because all what we hear all the time is that no one saw her. I also do not know what to think of the story my neighbour told me now twice, and she is not suffering from any memory loss or any other related illness. She is sharp just as you and me. So, what if Mariam, met somenone, not online, but in the neighbourhood/school, with whom she felt she had special bond. After all, this is the young woman who is very shy, but at the same time very spirited, educated and ambitious ( from what we know about her so far...). So, her intelligence was in great discrepancy with he (English) language abilities. It must have been very frustrating... Her parents took all the right steps: rented the apartament in nice area, enrolled her in nice school, gave her some time to adjust, I mean these people did everything right. So, why this happened to Mariam? Because bad things happen to good people. Sad, but true.


    http://sunsetchaser07.blogspot.com/

    Culture also affects communication by influencing the recipients' assumptions. Our minds try to twist incoming information to make it fit in our worldview. Since different cultures have very different worldviews, cross-cultural communication is especially likely to change meaning between sender and receiver, as the sender may have a very different worldview from the receiver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sillybilly View Post
    from:Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CANADA Canada - Mariam Makhniashvili, 17, Toronto, 14 Sept 2009 - Thread #5

    Those details about "grooming" were specifics in relation to Jessie Foster, just to show that not all HT victims are disenfranchised. Grooming can take various forms and timeframes, and probably won't be the same in all cases. IMO, it is Mariam's LACK of social connections and the exceptionally strict monitoring of her activities that leads me to wonder if she may have been more vulnerable and hungry for social acceptance. She had friends in Georgia, but had not acquired even one in Canada. Young girls don't hang forever with brothers, moms and dads. Branching out towards independence happens at some point. As an example, she may have been befriended in the hallways by a girl at the school, or someone at the dragon boat races. Maybe she did just want to fit in at her new school, new country, and therefore was vulnerable to any attention paid her by other students. Large cities, including Toronto, are very criminally sophisticated and a lot of high school kids are involved at the street level in sophisticated organized crime. Subtle coercion might explain no violent confrontation or abduction witnessed by others. Could be something as simple as a boy/girl telling her a few times how pretty she looked, then meeting her that morning and encouraging her to come with them while they visited a friend in the restaurant across the street for coffee ... or she was encouraged to go with someone who said they had to run home to get needed school supplies, where others waited at that location.

    Even intelligent, shy, studious teens can be subjected to peer pressure ... the first time I played hookey, smoked a cigarette, had a drink was due to someone else's encouragement. Had it not been for the influence of others, i would have turned into the perfect adult specimen, albeit a bit boring

    Every case is different and, given the lack of evidence or any of us knowing what really transpired in Mariam's case, these are just possibilities/examples that come to mind.
    SB, I don't know much about that HT business, but wouldn't the "grooming" be a gradual process? Remember Mariam had been at school for only 4 days! She went missing on what would have been her 5th day.

    So true about peer pressure, and being influenced; but do you think it would have been possible the "grooming" in Mariam's case was accomplished in minutes, while she parted ways from her brother and walked towards the main entrance door? And how were 'those people' to know that precisely that day, she was going to enter a different door? Also IMHO, her shyness (no eye contact) would have made her a bit 'unapproachable' and a deterrent for her peers to talk to her.

    From what we learned from her grandma, neighbours and friend in Georgia, Mariam had very few friends back home, and she will rather stay home and read a book.

    I am so glad you were influenced by others, and turned into such an interesting and not boring at all adult :Banane35:
    My posts are merely my humble opinion. Unless you are quoting within Websleuths Forums, you do not have my permission to copy nor use any post made by me for anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazel View Post
    SB, I don't know much about that HT business, but wouldn't the "grooming" be a gradual process? Remember Mariam had been at school for only 4 days! She went missing on what would have been her 5th day.

    So true about peer pressure, and being influenced; but do you think it would have been possible the "grooming" in Mariam's case was accomplished in minutes, while she parted ways from her brother and walked towards the main entrance door? And how were 'those people' to know that precisely that day, she was going to enter a different door? Also IMHO, her shyness (no eye contact) would have made her a bit 'unapproachable' and a deterrent for her peers to talk to her.

    From what we learned from her grandma, neighbours and friend in Georgia, Mariam had very few friends back home, and she will rather stay home and read a book.

    I am so glad you were influenced by others, and turned into such an interesting and not boring at all adult :Banane35:
    LOL ... i turned out to be a big pain in the pip

    Okay ... I did not say definitively that Mariam was groomed. I was responding to AG's comment that most HT victims come from already unforunate backgrounds. I then offered up the example of Jessie Foster, believed to be a victim of HT only after having been groomed into the sex trade as compared to having had a disenfranchised lifestyle prior to that.

    Having said that, could Mariam have been groomed into a friendship with a view to handing her over into the sex trade, or groomed by an individual sexual predator, and/or groomed in as little as 4 days or so? IMO, yes to all of the foregoing (but not necessarily in "minutes"). Something as simple as another precocious teen with a locker next to Mariam's telling her how smart, pretty she was with a view to introducing her to their gangster boyfriend. There's a whole new breed of kids out there these days. Where I live, we have teen girls giving oral sex in exchange for a cigarette at lunchtime, so I would fully expect a school the size of Forest Hill would have its share of bada$$ guys and gals, jocks and gang wannabes. Then we have the possibility of teachers sexually exploiting students (a touch on the arm or stroking the hair, providing additional help at lunch time with the new language, or whatever)

    IMO, the very body language that you interpret as a deterrent is often what draws the predator to their victim. Like bullies, they prey on someone they perceive to be weaker ... the sweet, the naive, a shy smile, slight stoop to the shoulders, eyes or head a bit downcast .. not the confident, shoulders back gal storming down the hall with her head held high and a look in her eye that says "don't mess with me".

    Maybe Mariam going to the front entrance that day wasn't by chance ... maybe it was a pre-arranged meeting to reach out to a new-found friend.

    I don't know any more than the rest of you. Wish I did


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazel View Post
    Excerpts from both You Tube Videos posted above (post #2) from Press Conference -- Det. Sgt. Dan Nealon.
    Please feel free to correct and add to list:

    EVIDENCE: To date, there has been
    -- No evidence to suggest that she had been abducted
    -- No evidence to suggest that she had been lured for any nefarious activity
    -- She showed no signs of depression or suicidal thoughts
    -- There is no evidence to suggest that she run away
    -- There is no evidence to suggest that she took flight from the country
    -- There is no evidence to suggest that she ever felt victim to any misadventure or accident.

    "All these working theories have been researched and to date, there is nothing which will support anyone of those".

    Tips of POSSIBLE SIGHTINGS: all investigated and proven to be false.

    SURVEILLANCE VIDEO: in 5 Km radio : thousands of hours of video reviewed on real time.

    Umm, forgive me for being obtuse, but if they feel she wasn't abducted, and she didn't run away, what do they think happened to her?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Umm, forgive me for being obtuse, but if they feel she wasn't abducted, and she didn't run away, what do they think happened to her?
    That's the problem Wondergirl ... other than Mariam's backpack being found behind the Eglinton Av office building, LE has no evidence that points to or away from the various possibilities, and they are publicly indicating they do not have a theory.

    Anyone recall (or did we ever know) how Mariam and George's trips from Georgia to Canada were funded?

    Mariam apparently left her ID at home. Do we know what that ID consists of, and did she normally take that ID with her when she went to school?

    I respectfully disagree with Hazel's comment that Mariam didn't have friends in Georgia. There are various snippets that indicate otherwise:

    Mariam set up her first e-mail account – marika-mak – when she arrived in Canada to keep in touch with friends back home.
    Can't find the link posted recently, but there were two(?) names of friends Mariam used to study with back in Georgia, and then there was mention of a popular boy named Giorgi. It seems Mariam was not THAT isolated in Georgia, but we are told she had made no friends in Canada.

    Any HT theory I have is not etched in stone here ... just that we know from other articles on HT that the victims' ID is removed from them, the preferred victims are around age 18 (Mariam was 6 weeks shy of her 18th birthday), and they are kept isolated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Umm, forgive me for being obtuse, but if they feel she wasn't abducted, and she didn't run away, what do they think happened to her?
    I don't know what they (LE) think happened to her. I just put all that out there, to help try to think what has not been included in that list. IMO there could be a reason why Det. Nealon is stating all that. Someone out there could potentially be getting some kind of message, IDK. Looking at that list, I can think of at least one thing that has not been excluded, though I could be way off!

    Quote Originally Posted by sillybilly View Post
    That's the problem Wondergirl ... other than Mariam's backpack being found behind the Eglinton Av office building, LE has no evidence that points to or away from the various possibilities, and they are publicly indicating they do not have a theory.

    Anyone recall (or did we ever know) how Mariam and George's trips from Georgia to Canada were funded?

    Mariam apparently left her ID at home. Do we know what that ID consists of, and did she normally take that ID with her when she went to school?

    I respectfully disagree with Hazel's comment that Mariam didn't have friends in Georgia. There are various snippets that indicate otherwise:


    Can't find the link posted recently, but there were two(?) names of friends Mariam used to study with back in Georgia, and then there was mention of a popular boy named Giorgi. It seems Mariam was not THAT isolated in Georgia, but we are told she had made no friends in Canada.

    Any HT theory I have is not etched in stone here ... just that we know from other articles on HT that the victims' ID is removed from them, the preferred victims are around age 18 (Mariam was 6 weeks shy of her 18th birthday), and they are kept isolated.

    SB, I believe, though I'm not 100 percent sure, that ID is her passport. IIRC, her parents have her passport. I don't recall anything regarding her OHIP. It was too early for her to have a Student Card.

    Perhpas I didn't explain myself correctly SB. I didn't mean to say Mariam had NO FRIENDS at all in Georgia, but that she was not the kind of girl that would be described as very 'social', 'popular'. Her priority in going to school IMO would have been to 'study' and 'learn' and most likely try to get a scholarship. I don't see her like going to school to socialize, even the way she dressed up, her hairstyle and no makeup would suggest that. It's just my own observation, in comparison with what I see around here.

    Do you remember how many friends she had in her FB account? Was it 3?
    Those friends' names and the Giorgi boy were named in that paragraph I found, but for some reason was deleted from the Globe and Mail article: One Year Later .. I just posted links to the FB page and the Blog that quoted it, as well as the Google searches where we could still read about it, though it is no longer in the updated article. Elepher posted the paragraph sometime later; all that is in the previous thread. Will try find the links for you, previous to that everybody said she didn't have a boyfriend.

    - http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...48#post5601148

    - http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...97#post5607197



    Anyone remembers that long article where Mariam's grandmother and next door neighbour described her as being a 'bookworm'?

    ETA:
    This is what I said, apologies for quoting myself:
    "From what we learned from her grandma, neighbours and friend in Georgia, Mariam had very few friends back home, and she will rather stay home and read a book."

    I said very few friends back home, not no friends.

    Good question Sillybilly regarding "how Mariam and George's trips from Georgia to Canada were funded?" I don't recall that question was ever answered.
    Last edited by KateB; 05-02-2015 at 06:33 PM. Reason: repair url tag.
    My posts are merely my humble opinion. Unless you are quoting within Websleuths Forums, you do not have my permission to copy nor use any post made by me for anything.
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  14. #14
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    Reposting this article from a Georgian newspaper.

    http://www.geotimes.ge/index.php?m=home&newsid=18472
    The teens’ grandmother reluctantly talked to a Georgian Times reporter through the closed door of her apartment. “The children wanted to go to Canada very much and were excited about this [move] as they had not seen their parents for 5 years,” she said. When asked whether Mariam liked being in Canada and whether she had made any friends there, Tsiala Makhniashvili said that she had only gone in June and it was difficult to befriend people in such a short timespan. Besides, “both siblings were preparing for the high school admission test and did not have much time for other things,” the grandmother said. “She [Mariam] passed the test perfectly. She is a very smart child. The only things she knows are school and books.”




    The neighbours referred to Mariam as being a very quiet, modest girl, who was always at home studying. She went out only to go to school or buy groceries. Her grandmother had leg pains and Mariam did many chores around the house. Mikheil Chomakhashvili, 20, the siblings’ friend and neighbour, said that he could not imagine Mariam could have been targeted because of her parents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazel View Post
    ... regarding "how Mariam and George's trips from Georgia to Canada were funded?" I don't recall that question was ever answered.
    <rsbm>

    Just wondering if arrangements were made with an immigration agent fronting the money, in which case, i would consider the "debt bondage" aspect of HT.

    WRT "friends" .. yes, pretty much everything we've heard about Mariam is that she was no social butterfly. Sometimes however, people do things that are simply uncharacteristic.

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