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Thread: Canada - Mariam Makhniashvili, 17, Toronto, 14 Sept 2009 - #6

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleo612 View Post
    He walked into the police station and needed a ride home. This implies to me that he did not have his red bicycle with him.
    WTH???? 53 Division is 10 minutes walking distance from his home on Roehampton. Why did he need a ride home?????

    Quote Originally Posted by cleo612 View Post
    Why would he have gone to the police station instead of immediately making a beeline to his home? Where is/was that red bicycle?
    I am asking the same question. What could be possible reasons to go to the police station instead home. To get a ride is not good explanation. It is so close to his home that it is ridiculous to go to the police and ask for a ride. Police is not a taxi service.

    Quote Originally Posted by cleo612 View Post
    I am not inclined to assume that George did anything wrong, or that he should suffer consequences of any kind.
    What is someone else did something wrong to him, and he felt safer to go to the police station than home?

    Quote Originally Posted by cleo612 View Post
    Until I hear what it was that kept him from going home in the first place, I am cutting him a wide swath, borne only of concern and not blame.
    This all is too weird to draw any conclusions.

    Quote Originally Posted by cleo612 View Post
    What if this young man was abducted, was being held, and then able to exact an escape? What if the whole "disappearance" was in some way related to Mariam's disappearance? Should George be required to suffer "consequences?"
    If he was abducted - we need explanation who and where he was held.

    If this has to do something with Mariam's disappearance, I hope LE will be able to get to the bottom of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by cleo612 View Post
    Should it be determined that George went off on his own, as some prank, some ill-advised "mental health" day, or some such--then, and only then, will/would I feel that George should suffer any "consequences."
    If this was his own decision, he is old enough to know the difference between right and wrong. Alarming public about his disappearance was not a child's play.

    Quote Originally Posted by cleo612 View Post
    I am glad this young man is back home this morning. I was terribly concerned for him--I cannot imagine the horrors that were going through the minds of his parents.The big question remains--where, now, is Mariam?
    At the same time this all makes me wonder what really these parents know about their children.


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  3. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by outcast View Post
    Does anyone find it interesting that George did not come back from school on the same day in the week - Monday. Is there something happening on the weekends there? Is it just a coincidence?
    Why did George decide to go to the police station before going home?

    Will the family give some explanation of why this happened?

    Do they owe us the explanation?

    I do not like the fact that we are becoming desentisized to the word "missing" when these type of stories are broadcasted. Why it was enough for Makhniashvilis to e mail to Sue Sgambati for this to get so much attention in the media. Did she ask them if they went to the police? I think that the family is in the spotlight now for all wrong reasons, and I am not sure if only George is to blame.

    bbm
    I tend to agree with you on this. (He went to the police first?)

    Margaret-diane posted:
    At age 16 an Ontario youth can leave their parent's home and take up residence on their own or where they choose. They can obtain welfare too.
    Unfortunately I had reason to check this out a few years back. My son was going out with a girl from a highly dysfunctional family. They threw her out in the street when she was 16 (still attending school; part time job; no drugs; no crime ). She had nowhere to live so I called Children's Aid. They told me that once the child is 16 the parents had no responsibility toward the child. I asked if she could go on welfare....they told me that welfare didn't apply until someone was 18. So what are those 16 and 17 year olds to do? Luckily, through the school there were some provincial programs that could be tapped and the school guidance office worked on her behalf to get her a bit of funding so that she could stay in school and have enough to pay rent somewhere.

    Regarding George...I am so happy he is safe and sound. It's tough being a 17 year old, let alone one who has been through as much as he has.

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  5. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by outcast View Post
    Does anyone find it interesting that George did not come back from school on the same day in the week - Monday. Is there something happening on the weekends there? Is it just a coincidence?

    Why did George decide to go to the police station before going home?

    Will the family give some explanation of why this happened?

    Do they owe us the explanation?

    I do not like the fact that we are becoming desentisized to the word "missing" when these type of stories are broadcasted. Why it was enough for Makhniashvilis to e mail to Sue Sgambati for this to get so much attention in the media. Did she ask them if they went to the police? I think that the family is in the spotlight now for all wrong reasons, and I am not sure if only George is to blame.
    I have not been posting in this case, but I have been following it, and I am not sure I get the hostility towards the family. (Not speaking just to you, but also to some of those articles that emphasized the "according to the father...", as if there were immediately nefarious implications in the headline without proof.)

    Sure, weekends might suck at home, which is not all that unusual for homes with teens in them. He might have been closer to the police station than his apartment, so he went there first - maybe he was mugged and had no phone or bike. (Maybe he wanted to clear up the official trouble, first - and maybe it wasn't his choice to have a ride home, and LE wanted to talk to the parents about him.) I don't feel any of them need to be "blamed" for the media spotlight.

    I am glad GM is home, whatever happened, and I don't feel they owe anyone but LE an explanation. I am not desensitized to a missing person, so I posted his information as soon as I got it, because he was missing. Now that he is found, it's none of my business any more. I'm curious, sure, but if they chose not to satisfy that, I'm fine with it - but if they do explain it to us, I won't blame them as being media hounds.

    Migration is stressful to begin with; the loss of a child under such circumstances must be even worse - I cut this family slack under these circumstances, until LE tells me something different.

    All MOO, of course - everyone has their own perspective.


    ETA: I am certain if this was him just going AWOL, he will face consequences for it. He will likely see well what his mother went through, and he will feel that - likely for a long time.
    Last edited by WhyaDuck?; 11-02-2010 at 09:25 AM.

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  7. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by outcast View Post
    WTH???? 53 Division is 10 minutes walking distance from his home on Roehampton. Why did he need a ride home?????



    I am asking the same question. What could be possible reasons to go to the police station instead home. To get a ride is not good explanation. It is so close to his home that it is ridiculous to go to the police and ask for a ride. Police is not a taxi service.



    What is someone else did something wrong to him, and he felt safer to go to the police station than home?



    This all is too weird to draw any conclusions.



    If he was abducted - we need explanation who and where he was held.

    If this has to do something with Mariam's disappearance, I hope LE will be able to get to the bottom of this.



    If this was his own decision, he is old enough to know the difference between right and wrong. Alarming public about his disappearance was not a child's play.



    At the same time this all makes me wonder what really these parents know about their children.
    BBM

    I don't think he was abducted or mugged, personally - LE has said it was just a personal matter. From the drive home, I assume they were worried about his mental state or something personal of that nature.

    I truly do get being concerned about whether the home was abusive or not, but I suggest we just don't have enough information to draw that conclusion. Anyone in that situation might be fearful about facing his parents, IMO.

    Just my two cents, FWIW.

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  9. #130
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    Of course WhyaDuck. But we have been exploring here all possibilities, kind of brainstorming.

    I personally do not feel any hostility towards the family. If nothing, I empathize with them personally.

    But there are too many unexplained things that come from them. Why did VM said that it was "out of character" for George to just take off ( the same he said for Mariam!!!! ) as if everything was perfectly fine, and now we are finding out that there was some discussions at home that may have had upset George.

    I am almost at the point to suggest that the family needs an interpreter. There are too many misunderstandings.


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    Culture also affects communication by influencing the recipients' assumptions. Our minds try to twist incoming information to make it fit in our worldview. Since different cultures have very different worldviews, cross-cultural communication is especially likely to change meaning between sender and receiver, as the sender may have a very different worldview from the receiver.

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  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by outcast View Post
    Of course WhyaDuck. But we have been exploring here all possibilities, kind of brainstorming.

    I personally do not feel any hostility towards the family. If nothing, I empathize with them personally.

    But there are too many unexplained things that come from them. Why did VM said that it was "out of character" for George to just take off ( the same he said for Mariam!!!! ) as if everything was perfectly fine, and now we are finding out that there was some discussions at home that may have had upset George.

    I am almost at the point to suggest that the family needs an interpreter. There are too many misunderstandings.
    Well, in truth, I think it is not uncommon for parents not to know their young adult children as well as they think they do. I also think it is common for parents of this ilk to not want people to think badly of them or to assume their child is "bad," so they are less than forthcoming, at least in public. The media scrutiny of the past year must have been intensely embarrassing, along with acutely distressing. And I also think it is not uncommon for people to fail to notice when a conversation is more upsetting to someone else than it was to them, and it is hard to tell what someone is going through emotionally/mentally at any given time - many of the runaway and suicide cases on here have relatives saying nothing seemed to be wrong when the person disappeared.

    And, as well, I am sure this was out of character for GM - I don't doubt that part at all. Something of this magnitude would have to be out of character; otherwise, we would have heard more about GM in recent months, I think.

    I hope the kid is ok. I cannot imagine coming into adulthood in such circumstances.

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  13. #132
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    Reporters were gathered outside the Makhniashvili’s apartment building when George returned, and remained there this morning in anticipation of an appearance by someone from the family.

    However, the family’s apartment had its curtains drawn and police said they were not expected to make a statement.
    http://www.thestar.com/news/article/...rother-located

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    Father was answering the reporter's questions in front his apartment building about an hour ago.

    I cannot find the link, but it was on cp24.


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    Culture also affects communication by influencing the recipients' assumptions. Our minds try to twist incoming information to make it fit in our worldview. Since different cultures have very different worldviews, cross-cultural communication is especially likely to change meaning between sender and receiver, as the sender may have a very different worldview from the receiver.

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  17. #134
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    Family argument

    "There was some kind of stress," said the father. The two had apparently argued over George's aspiration to be a musician and his father's desire that he study mathematics.

    "He took [his] guitar from school. [He] went [to] Vaughan," a community north of Toronto.

    George then "walked about until about 5 o'clock, and then returned to the police station and talked to them," said his father.

    Mariam Makhniashvili was 17 when she disappeared after walking with her brother to school at Forest Hill Collegiate on Sept. 14, 2009. The siblings decided to enter the school from different doors, and Mariam has not been seen since.



    Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/sto...#ixzz148NvjJ3x

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  19. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by outcast View Post
    Father was answering the reporter's questions in front his apartment building about an hour ago.

    I cannot find the link, but it was on cp24.
    Video.
    http://www.cp24.com/latest/

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  21. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotr View Post
    I meant the link for the impromptu press conference.

    Did anyone notice George not wearing a jacket. It was cold last night. Was he staying somewhere indoors? Does he have a friend who lives in Vaughan?

    edit: misspeling of a word Vaughan
    Last edited by outcast; 11-02-2010 at 11:25 AM.


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  23. #137
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    Kind of O/T, but I was just reading about Jacob Wetterling's case a few days ago.....and about the difficulties his siblings went through after his kidnapping. I can't begin to imagine the pain, the fear, the frustration, the strain that would bring to a young life. Moreover, I can't imagine having to deal with all of it alone....like George has had to do....and having to live in the shadow of Mariam and Mariam's kidnapping for the rest of my life.
    Sure, this may come down to an argument about career paths....but underneath that minor fight is something far more serious and stressful. While it isn't 'right' for George to have done this, perhaps in his own mind this act of going missing is the one thing that might get his parents' attention. Not blaming them either....just saying that they may not know or understand how difficult it has been for him to grow up in the shadow of his sister's kidnapping.
    The Wetterling children, as well as other people who's siblings were kidnapped, created a phamplet and a video to help other children in their same situation. http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/217714.pdf

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  25. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by krista View Post
    Kind of O/T, but I was just reading about Jacob Wetterling's case a few days ago.....and about the difficulties his siblings went through after his kidnapping. I can't begin to imagine the pain, the fear, the frustration, the strain that would bring to a young life. Moreover, I can't imagine having to deal with all of it alone....like George has had to do....and having to live in the shadow of Mariam and Mariam's kidnapping for the rest of my life. ]
    In this great country Canada there are sooo many services available to help persons like George. He goes to school. Did he talk to someone at school about his stresses? I am confident that if asked for help he would have gotten it. If he was not able to do so, what is than the role of parents. If I see my child struggling I would seek help, talk to teachers, school administrators to find out what supports my child needs. And believe me there is no better place than Canada to get services you need. You can pick and choose from non-profit organizations that are charging based on your income, so if you have no income or little income you can get services for free, until services that you have to pay for. I just do not understand how educated people like they appear to be think that they have to keep to themselves. Explanation that they are very private persons who do not want to share their privacy with everyone else does not hold water for me. If George was younger than 16, and he run away from home he would become the Crown ward, and Children's Aid Society would be called in.

    Quote Originally Posted by krista View Post
    Sure, this may come down to an argument about career paths....but underneath that minor fight is something far more serious and stressful. While it isn't 'right' for George to have done this, perhaps in his own mind this act of going missing is the one thing that might get his parents' attention.

    ITA. This has to be investigated. Was George abused by his father. Was his disappearance call for help?

    Quote Originally Posted by krista View Post
    Not blaming them either....just saying that they may not know or understand how difficult it has been for him to grow up in the shadow of his sister's kidnapping.
    We do not know if Mariam was kidnapped. The most frustrating thing is that no one knows what happened to her.


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  27. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhyaDuck? View Post
    BBM

    I don't think he was abducted or mugged, personally - LE has said it was just a personal matter. From the drive home, I assume they were worried about his mental state or something personal of that nature.

    I truly do get being concerned about whether the home was abusive or not, but I suggest we just don't have enough information to draw that conclusion. Anyone in that situation might be fearful about facing his parents, IMO.

    Just my two cents, FWIW.
    (BBM)

    I strongly suspect that LE would not let a minor go home alone from the police station at 5:00 or 6:00 a.m. and that driving them home would be standard procedure.

    But where is George's bike? Left at the station to be picked up later? I can't believe that someone from a family as poor as this would just abandon it. Probably not a fact considered important enough to be pursued by the media.

    JMO
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    (BBM)

    I strongly suspect that LE would not let a minor go home alone from the police station at 5:00 or 6:00 a.m. and that driving them home would be standard procedure.

    But where is George's bike? Left at the station to be picked up later? I can't believe that someone from a family as poor as this would just abandon it. Probably not a fact considered important enough to be pursued by the media.

    JMO
    George must have dropped his bike off at the school/or wherever he keeps his guitar, it is not impossible to ride with an instrument,but easier.Who knows, maybe he "busked" a little along his journey and made a few bucks!

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  31. #141
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    I stand corrected,I guess GM did ride his bike around after all.Poor kid, deserves to dream in my opinion, besides, making a living as a musician in Canada is viable,especially if you already know how to get the attention of the media.
    http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2.../15912856.html
    George Makhniashvili pedalled his bike around Vaughan, then when it "got cold," turned himself in to Toronto Police 53 Division around 5:15 a.m. Tuesday, his father said, adding the boy apologized to his parents and is "now sleeping

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  33. #142
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    I used to do something very similar at that age - I would walk the shore of the bay very late at night - which now seems very unsafe to me, but it was wonderful for clearing out my head. The difference is, of course, that my mum didn't worry and had not been through a child abduction.

    Well, now that he is home, and we know it wasn't directly related to Miriam's disappearance (other than being part of the family drama in general), I am left to wish for new news on Miriam, soon.

    Back to lurking with me - best wishes to this family, and to George.

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  35. #143
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    belimom is offline Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter ~MLK Jr
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    I'm going out on a limb here - just speculation (not sure if this has been posted): I wonder if George knows where Mariam might be and went to see her. Perhaps that's why he left his cell phone in his locker... he didn't want to be traced.

    ^ The above is pure speculation as I do believe that Mariam was abducted, or at least conned into going somewhere but is being held against her will... or worse... ... But when I read about George, the thought did cross my mind that maybe he visited her. This family seems to have alot of issues with their teenage children (not serious - but just not very close, I don't believe). So anything is possible, I guess.
    Fly high and free, Jhessye ~

    My posts are meant to help think through possibilities and are strictly an additional opinion under circumstances when many points of view need to be considered. I apologize in advance to anyone whose potential involvement is contemplated in error. Please understand that much of what is happening is merely brainstorming during unfortunate events.

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  37. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by belimom View Post
    I'm going out on a limb here - just speculation (not sure if this has been posted): I wonder if George knows where Mariam might be and went to see her. Perhaps that's why he left his cell phone in his locker... he didn't want to be traced.

    ^ The above is pure speculation as I do believe that Mariam was abducted, or at least conned into going somewhere but is being held against her will... or worse... ... But when I read about George, the thought did cross my mind that maybe he visited her. This family seems to have alot of issues with their teenage children (not serious - but just not very close, I don't believe). So anything is possible, I guess.
    That was the first thought that crossed my mind - that somehow Mariam contacted George and he went to visit her. How I wish it were so....

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  39. #145
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    Can this change everything?

    This latest incident is beginning to make me doubt the theory Iíve held for the past year about Mariamís disappearance. I have always believed that there was a political motive behind an abduction Ė either as retribution against one or both of the parents, or as an extortion attempt. Considering every known fact about this tragic case, it made more sense to me than anything else.

    Now, a teenaged boy having a disagreement with his father and deciding to run off for a while is, in itself, not an unusual or noteworthy event. But when combined with Mariamís mysterious vanishing, VMís California charges, and then the shocking stabbing incident, it becomes obvious that this is a dysfunctional family. There has been just too much drama for all this to be dismissed as coincidence.

    Iíve always given VM the benefit of the doubt, but am now getting skeptical. Just how controlling is this man? How much violence is he capable of? Is he in control of his temper at all?

    My previous arguments against VMís involvement in Mariamís disappearance still stand. Itís so hard to believe that he could have been responsible and left no clues for LE. Even more unbelievable is that Lela would either have no idea (the timeline is all wrong), or that she would be such a good actress as to deceive LE, the media, and the public. No point in adding maternal love to that list of doubts Ė that should be obvious.

    But Iím also considering the possibility that my original theory is correct and that George is lying about his whereabouts last night, either to protect Mariam, or himself and his parents. LE has said that this was a domestic situation and there is nothing more to investigate here. I hope theyíre lying, too.

    I am fervently hoping that this last development will give LE some new leads and Mariamís mystery will be solved.

    JMO
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

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  41. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by outcast View Post
    If George was younger than 16, and he run away from home he would become the Crown ward, and Children's Aid Society would be called in.
    ]

    I just wanted to advise that if he were under 16 and ran away from home - CAS MIGHT become involved (investigate why he left, where he went, whether he wanted to return etc) - but it does NOT mean he would automatically become a Crown Ward!!

    Getting Crown Wardship for a child is a complicated procedure most of the time -- CAS has to have a reason to become involved and then one to STAY involved! They also have to have a reason to KEEP a child in care, as opposed to returning them to parents or extended family. If parents sign off, the process is less complicated. If parents disagree, the process is more difficult -- but its not an automated process at all! Just sayin'.

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  43. #147
    Has anyone considered the possibility of a publicity stunt? Conceived of by a family member, or family friend perhaps? Have GM go missing a few hours so his picture and the story could hit the media -- inducing a renewed interest in his sister's matter? Intended or not, based on the frenzy this news created around here and on other similar sites, I'd say this worked (if this were the intended outcome).
    Not accusing anyone here -- just thinking out loud.

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    I just found this OLD article. http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/mari...-s-father-says
    I'm a newbie to this thread....I watch it occasionally, but don't post here. I am CERTAIN that this has already been discussed to death, but I have been thinking about this all morning and this article mentions a lot of things I didn't know about.

    First, I knew Miriam and George were seperated from their parents while her father was 'doing research' in California, but I didn't know that the father and mother were also living seperately for most of that time. So, when we talk about a 'family'....this was a very disjointed family to begin with. For years Mariam had been living with her grandmother...and mom had been living with her employer, so who really knew Mariam well enough to know her patterns of behavior? The only persons I would consider 'knowing her'' are her grandmother back in Georgia, her relatives that lived in that home, and whoever she was good friends with there. Because she had been here in Toronto for only 3 months....with virtual strangers the whole time....I just can't claim to know that she was 'being herself'. She was likely very excited/nervous/overwhelmed to be in a new country, new school, new life, 'new' family. I'd expect her to do one of two things: act out or try to impress her parents. It appears as though she did the latter.

    In EVERY news article, EVERY video, listen to how the father talks about Mariam. She is his golden child...she is his shining star. He's clearly proud of her, clearly adores how smart and talented she is. I wonder how smart and talented George is/was. I wonder if George's talent could have matched Mariams.
    But, back to THIS article. I didn't know that George was sent to live with an aunt, after having lived with the grandmother and Mariam for a while. I wonder why he was sent to live elsewhere! I also wonder how that made him feel. Apparently, the father would send english books back home to Georgia and Mariam and he would read them over the phone each week. I wonder if he did the same with George....did he have weekly talks with his son at the aunt's house?? Did mom?
    Finally, the last words of this article stick out:
    George says his sister appeared excited about coming to Canada and seemed to like Toronto. But he admits they weren't very close. If Mariam was unhappy she may not have confided in him. He does, however, recall her saying she did not like her new school.

    I've always thought that George was Mariam's ONLY outlet....her ONLY source of companionship. Yet HE HIMSELF says that he wasn't close with her. He also claims that she DIDN'T like school...when everyone else says that she was enjoying school.

    I've got to REALLY wonder if George didn't feel left out, abandoned, less than, unappreciated. I've got to wonder if he didn't view his sister as the 'enemy'....the one person standing in the way of his parent's acceptance. I've got to wonder if he didn't see her as a sister at all, given their living arrangements. I wonder what his grades are like....if something happened at grandma's house to warrant moving him somewhere else.

    One older article mentioned that George's story, about Mariam going to the other door, was not confirmed. Has it ever been confirmed by LE? Has he ever been cleared in her disappearance?

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  47. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    This latest incident is beginning to make me doubt the theory Iíve held for the past year about Mariamís disappearance. I have always believed that there was a political motive behind an abduction Ė either as retribution against one or both of the parents, or as an extortion attempt. Considering every known fact about this tragic case, it made more sense to me than anything else.

    Now, a teenaged boy having a disagreement with his father and deciding to run off for a while is, in itself, not an unusual or noteworthy event. But when combined with Mariamís mysterious vanishing, VMís California charges, and then the shocking stabbing incident, it becomes obvious that this is a dysfunctional family. There has been just too much drama for all this to be dismissed as coincidence.

    Iíve always given VM the benefit of the doubt, but am now getting skeptical. Just how controlling is this man? How much violence is he capable of? Is he in control of his temper at all?

    My previous arguments against VMís involvement in Mariamís disappearance still stand. Itís so hard to believe that he could have been responsible and left no clues for LE. Even more unbelievable is that Lela would either have no idea (the timeline is all wrong), or that she would be such a good actress as to deceive LE, the media, and the public. No point in adding maternal love to that list of doubts Ė that should be obvious.

    But Iím also considering the possibility that my original theory is correct and that George is lying about his whereabouts last night, either to protect Mariam, or himself and his parents. LE has said that this was a domestic situation and there is nothing more to investigate here. I hope theyíre lying, too.

    I am fervently hoping that this last development will give LE some new leads and Mariamís mystery will be solved.

    JMO
    BBM:

    Personally, I think that VM is a controlling individual. Whenever I see him and his wife on tv, she always seems to be looking down and not at the camera, she just seems subservient to me, and that could be living with a very controlling person - JMO.

    As for GM "running away". I'm sure teenagers do run away when they are having a fight with their parents, though it seems odd that he would travel all the way to Vaughan when he is living and going to school in Toronto. Something just doesn't sound right to me, especially with all the media attention that they got when MM disappeared and then the stabbing incident with VM, etc. Again, this is JMO.

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  49. #150
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    In a strange way, this has given renewed hope that maybe MM did run away (initially anyway). None of us would think GM would do that to his parents (given the obvious situation with his sister missing) and yet he did, so maybe it is also possible, that MM had desires for her future that did not include the family.

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