WHO is searching for Kyron?

This is something I've often wondered. I know LE of course are searching, but I want to know if any other organisations are involved like Tim Miller's. Sorry if this sounds a dumb question, I'm not American, so not sure how these things work.

There aren't any searches going on at the moment. The way I understand it, TES doesn't search unless the family AND LE makes a request.

Aren't the various fund-raising efforts supposed to be for searches?

BetteDavisEyes said:

Aren't the various fund-raising efforts supposed to be for searches?

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This article is dated September 3:

Three months since his son disappeared, Kaine Horman received $6,000 on Friday from a fundraiser at Godfather’s Pizza. Another $8,000 from the drive went to the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office for search and rescue efforts for Kyron Horman.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/09/fundraiser_14000_donated_to_ky.html

ETA: Also this, from the same article:

Sgt. Diana Olsen, head of search and rescue at the sheriff’s office, received the check for the sheriff’s office. She said it will be added to the Kyron Horman Fund, set up at Bank of America after the 7-year-old disappeared. Before today, that account held about $14,000 in donations from around the country, said Sgt. Travis Gullberg. He said the Bank of America is managing the money — none of which has been spent.

BetteDavisEyes said:

Aren't the various fund-raising efforts supposed to be for searches?

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The most recent info I've heard reported is in sheriff Staton's press conference the other day. He talked about how they're going to consult with the family to figure out what to do with the money. It sounds like the money isn't limited to use for searches, because one of the possibilities he mentioned is using the money for the family.

For the money going to the Kyron Horman foundation, IIRC, it's been reported that money is to buy bracelets and tshirts to resell, and to hold more fund raisers. I took that to mean a two-fold purpose - to get Kyron's face and name out via the bracelets and tshirts, and to hold more fund raisers to raise more money to channel to the MCSO fund.

I hope the family will consider using all the funds towards a PI to search for Kyron. PIs are *very* expensive, but the two funds available sound like a viable way to hire and keep a PI at least part time, and if they keep up the fund raisers, they could keep a PI on the case for as long as people continue to participate in the fund raisers.

Alternatively, they might be able to use the funds so that Tony can take an extended leave of absence from work, and do some PI work himself, although that would be difficult for him, and for all of them I think, because of the natural emotional involvement. It would, however, be less expensive than a PI.

Unrelated to the fund raisers, but related to who's searching for Kyron, I really wish the family would bring in TES. I do understand if they don't. Bringing in TES is an acknowledgement that your child may be deceased, and I understand if parents of missing children are unable to go there, and choose instead to hold to their hearts the hope that they may again see their child alive.

But... TES may not be an option right now. My understanding is that TES works with LE, and gets from LE what areas to search. Since LE has not been searching much, and has had access to the financial and people resources to do so, I think LE does not currently have target areas. That is, I think they have already covered - and covered very well - all currently known viable target areas.

I can't believe I typed all this before I had even my first cup of coffee.

I know that Kaine and Desiree said they weren't searching because they weren't SAR-trained and didn't want to get in the way. But now they have some fundraising money, they could perhaps bring in a PI. They believe he's alive; would an SAR group be the wisest use of the collected funds?

BeanE said:

I hope the family will consider using all the funds towards a PI to search for Kyron. PIs are *very* expensive, but the two funds available sound like a viable way to hire and keep a PI at least part time, and if they keep up the fund raisers, they could keep a PI on the case for as long as people continue to participate in the fund raisers.

Alternatively, they might be able to use the funds so that Tony can take an extended leave of absence from work, and do some PI work himself, although that would be difficult for him, and for all of them I think, because of the natural emotional involvement. It would, however, be less expensive than a PI.

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Just to add to your post, I recently had the task of interviewing and compiling a list of area PIs for my job. The average hourly rate for PIs around here is $70-80 an hour, including travel time. That includes PIs who do videotaped surveillance. Cheaper than an attorney, or even a paralegal, but still not cheap.

BeanE said:

The most recent info I've heard reported is in sheriff Staton's press conference the other day. He talked about how they're going to consult with the family to figure out what to do with the money. It sounds like the money isn't limited to use for searches, because one of the possibilities he mentioned is using the money for the family.

For the money going to the Kyron Horman foundation, IIRC, it's been reported that money is to buy bracelets and tshirts to resell, and to hold more fund raisers. I took that to mean a two-fold purpose - to get Kyron's face and name out via the bracelets and tshirts, and to hold more fund raisers to raise more money to channel to the MCSO fund.

I hope the family will consider using all the funds towards a PI to search for Kyron. PIs are *very* expensive, but the two funds available sound like a viable way to hire and keep a PI at least part time, and if they keep up the fund raisers, they could keep a PI on the case for as long as people continue to participate in the fund raisers.

I can't believe I typed all this before I had even my first cup of coffee.

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Respectfully edited. You've raised several excellent points here, BeanE, and I'd like to comment on the BBM.

I agree that the family should probably consider hiring a PI especially now that the overall effort by LE has been scaled back.

Regarding bracelets and tee-shirts: I know that this has been important to the family, but I think money might be better spent on a new flyer that shows computer-generated photos of how Kyron might look now. The picture on the tee-shirt, as well as those on most of the flyers that I've seen, are probably not accurate renderings of what the little guy could look like today.

Parents, grandparents, and teachers know that children's appearances can change a lot in three months. Kyron's teeth would look different, his hair could be longer or worn differently, he might have grown taller, and/or lost/gained weight. He could be wearing different eyeglasses or might be taken in public without them. jmo

You did just fine without your cuppa

gwenabob said:

Just to add to your post, I recently had the task of interviewing and compiling a list of area PIs for my job. The average hourly rate for PIs around here is $70-80 an hour, including travel time. That includes PIs who do videotaped surveillance. Cheaper than an attorney, or even a paralegal, but still not cheap.

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You know, I work with PI's a lot and they've been great but they work for me on cases that LE is not working. I don't think paying a PI is the best use of resources in a case LE is investigating. In fact, I don't know that I can think of one such case where a PI solved a case that LE could not. I have no doubt they exists but the fact that it may not be so easy to think of one may indicate how rare that it.
LE has access to even more than a PI would, as far as interviews, lie detector results, phone and computer forensics (which are really hard to get), info and assistance from outside/other agencies, etc. I believe their best bet would be getting help from TES. Perhaps people don't go that route because it assumes the missing person is dead and now we're into body recovery. But, I don't now that that's always the case. They could search for clues like his glasses, tire tracks, I don't know. In any event, that's my opinion on the best use of resources outside of LE.

How much do TES searches cost? (or other similar volunteer efforts) How much ground would 14.000 dollars cover?

I just wish there were (maybe there are and media have not caught on) search parties out every weekend, checking different areas in the 8-10 miles or so from Skyline...or even less, closer to school. I hate the idea that it seems as though Kyron will only be found by accident at some point in time...which could be years. But I know from photos that even by searchers, it would take extreme luck to find him, if he is out there...

Donjeta said:

How much do TES searches cost? (or other similar volunteer efforts) How much ground would 14.000 dollars cover?

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They cost TES quite a bit, but there is no charge to the family. TES is funded by donations.

cluciano63 said:

I just wish there were (maybe there are and media have not caught on) search parties out every weekend, checking different areas in the 8-10 miles or so from Skyline...or even less, closer to school. I hate the idea that it seems as though Kyron will only be found by accident at some point in time...which could be years. But I know from photos that even by searchers, it would take extreme luck to find him, if he is out there...

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According to Staton, this is one of his greatest frustrations in this case; there are tips that come in saying "check this bit of woods" "check down this road" and he says man time is used up having to look into these tips which, though they know aren't going to amount to anything, have to be checked and filed.

I guess it's a bit of a fine line; which tip might be THE tip?

I don't mean searching from tips...just methodically searching outward from where they left off I guess, to cover more areas. And maybe search again around Hormans' property. I don't know...I just hate the idea that maybe no physical searching is taking place (I am doubtful that it is, as media always seems to pick up on searches.)

Donjeta said:

How much do TES searches cost? (or other similar volunteer efforts) How much ground would 14.000 dollars cover?

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Depends a lot on what the terrain is like (what resources are needed) and what SAR is actually searching for. For example, searching for forensic evidence is different than searching for a cadaver which is different than searching for a structure- and this is all given a specific gridded area. All require different resources. Searching for certain things vs others increases/decreases costs of a search, and since LE is still running this investigation they would be accountable for whatever becomes of any searches in court- should a case to go court. So that's an additional cost of certified searchers.

In Kyron's case, it seems to me like $14,000 would last about a day.

Oriah said:

Depends a lot on what the terrain is like (what resources are needed) and what SAR is actually searching for. For example, searching for forensic evidence is different than searching for a cadaver which is different than searching for a structure- and this is all given a specific gridded area. All require different resources. Searching for certain things vs others increases/decreases costs of a search, and since LE is still running this investigation they would be accountable for whatever becomes of any searches in court- should a case to go court. So that's an additional cost of certified searchers.

In Kyron's case, it seems to me like $14,000 would last about a day.

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Wow. That's awful. Only one day. I'm surprised anyone can get anything done at all! In this case, if we cover 8 miles or so with a grid search, how long would that take? Days and days I imagine.

gitana1 said:

Wow. That's awful. Only one day. I'm surprised anyone can get anything done at all! In this case, if we cover 8 miles or so with a grid search, how long would that take? Days and days I imagine.

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Yeah.
I didn't mean one day literally but truthfully I can see given the circumstances involved in this situation, that continued SAR work would frankly require a boatload of money.
From an independant SAR team standpoint- just being entirely self sufficient and still maintaining the standards of your team for a few days- is pretty expensive, not to mention the specialized costs that might come into play.
IMO, it would be days and days, so pretty expensive.
But possibly still fruitful.

I know the baby isn't very old, but wonder if anyone ever stood with her beside the truck and around the home and asked "where is Kyron?". If she'd seen anything, she might have pointed to the bed of the truck, a shed, a container similar to one in the home, etc. If she saw him given to someone she might have even been able to say the name of a person, or "man". Whatever they've done, IMO they need to be physically searching locations and hiring a PI.

No one willing to do this pro bono for KYRON???
Seems to me Haleigh and Caylee had PI's pro bono.
I would think that PI's would want their names in a High Profile case!
PI's are needed also I do think.
Atleast keeping an eye on the main players TH/DD etc.

passionflower said:

No one willing to do this pro bono for KYRON???
Seems to me Haleigh and Caylee had PI's pro bono.
I would think that PI's would want their names in a High Profile case!
PI's are needed also I do think.
Atleast keeping an eye on the main players TH/DD etc.

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With much love and respect to you, Passionflower, please please please let's not wish the type of PI Haleigh and Caylee had on Kyron's case