The Eikelenbooms and Touch DNA

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Dear Prudence

Dear Prudence

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The Eikelenbooms and their expertise in Touch DNA is being discussed on several different threads, so I thought it would be nice to try and consolidate the infomation to one thread.

Richard and Selma Eikelenboom are Dutch forensic scientists that specialize in evidence analysis and DNA extraction. They own a company in the Netherlands called Independent Forensic Services. Information on their expertise can be found at their website:

http://www.forensic-services.nl/

Baez filed a motion which was argued at a status hearing yesterday 9/27/10 in which he wanted to send the canvas laundry bag and the pair of shorts found with Caylee to the Eikelenbooms lab in the Netherlands in order for them to attempt to extract DNA. Judge Perry stated he will not allow the evidence to leave the country. Baez stated the Eikelenbooms are opening a lab in Denver, CO and they could test the evidence there. JP said he would be inclined to grant that but would formally rule later this week.

Things of interest to me include:
Richard and Selma Eikelenboom themselves & are they renowned in their field as the defense claims

What is Touch DNA, is it a technique allowed in US criminal cases

Defense reasoning on testing those 2 particular items, the canvas bag and the shorts & what do you think they'll find and the implications
 
I remember seeing a television show on this some time ago. I cannot remember the name of it, but it did seem they are only renowned because they made themselves so. IIRC they had some new methods, not sure if they have the certification or what have you for a U.S. case. Really don't see why a Judge would agree anyhow. There are plenty of labs in the U.S. that are independent of local law enforcement, but I don't think that is JB's point. I think JB just wants someone that has been on television before and seems glamorous in some way. Just my opinion there. I cannot recall if they work pro bono, but who would not if it can get your name and work out there?
 
Dear Prudence said:
The Eikelenbooms and their expertise in Touch DNA is being discussed on several different threads, so I thought it would be nice to try and consolidate the infomation to one thread.

Richard and Selma Eikelenboom are Dutch forensic scientists that specialize in evidence analysis and DNA extraction. They own a company in the Netherlands called Independent Forensic Services. Information on their expertise can be found at their website:

http://www.forensic-services.nl/

Baez filed a motion which was argued at a status hearing yesterday 9/27/10 in which he wanted to send the canvas laundry bag and the pair of shorts found with Caylee to the Eikelenbooms lab in the Netherlands in order for them to attempt to extract DNA. Judge Perry stated he will not allow the evidence to leave the country. Baez stated the Eikelenbooms are opening a lab in Denver, CO and they could test the evidence there. JP said he would be inclined to grant that but would formally rule later this week.

Things of interest to me include:
Richard and Selma Eikelenboom themselves & are they renowned in their field as the defense claims

What is Touch DNA, is it a technique allowed in US criminal cases

Defense reasoning on testing those 2 particular items, the canvas bag and the shorts & what do you think they'll find and the implications
Click to expand...

They won't find them, but they're looking for signs of sexual abuse, sperm being one example. If they can detect that, it will allow the defense to point to SODDI.
 
Dear Prudence said:
This link claims the Eikelenbooms were the ones who recently indentified the DNA on Jon Benet Ramsey's clothing. Is that true? I don't remember hearing their names before. Intersting!

http://www.uis.edu/innocenceproject/events/touchdna/reikelenboom.html
Click to expand...

Jon Benet's clothing wasn't under water or out in the scorching sun, heavy winds and acid rain for 6 months either. Not saying this claim couldn't be true but certainly different circumstances. If they do find any DNA evidence from the bag or Caylee's shorts I will be very suspicious.
 
whiteangora said:
Jon Benet's clothing wasn't under water or out in the scorching sun, heavy winds and acid rain for 6 months either. Not saying this claim couldn't be true but certainly different circumstances. If they do find any DNA evidence from the bag or Caylee's shorts I will be very suspicious.
Click to expand...

I knew about the DNA being found on Jon Benets pants, that's when I first heard of Touch DNA. What I didn't know was that the Eikelenbooms were the ones who did the testing.

Yes, I'd be very surprised and suspicious too if they get any DNA from the evidence. But I also wonder what will happen if they find only KC's DNA on the items. Would the defense be required to reveal that or can they just keep quiet?
 
I'm interested in JAs statement that he has concerns about the couple, but did not expound. Their website is very defense-slanted.
 
Dear Prudence said:
Originally posted by salvarenga yesterday:

Article on the "world renowned" Touch DNA expert that is relocating to Denver per JB:

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_12102408


Thanks salvarenga, nice find!!
Click to expand...

Uhm. . . Ok. . . This article states that SE is hard-nosed, known for snapping at lazy investigators, sloppy lab techs, and people who don't share her socialists views. :waitasec: She DOES realize that Colorado is situated in the United States of America, doesn't she?
USAFlag.gif
And, I wonder how she feels about snapping at lazy defense attorneys? Oh, wait! Apparently, she enjoys working with them if it will get her name on the airwaves. I am soooo not impressed!
 
DP, thank you for starting this thread. I'm reposting a response I made on a different thread here, and looking forward to the conversation!

Which SOD's DNA would most likely be on the laundry bag that came from the Anthony home, and Caylee's shorts that were also at the Anthony home? GA. Defense probably figures finding Kronk's DNA would just be a bonus, but if there is any DNA remaining on those items, it's most likely to be Caylee's, KC's, George's, or Cindy's.

Anyone remember off the top of their head how far from the central remains site (bags and skull) the shorts were found?

If (big IF) there is remaining DNA that would show up in "touch DNA" testing, and IF the shorts were still in or mixed with the bags, I'd imagine one might find Kronk's DNA on both items if he bent down to touch it when he found it. If the shorts were farther away then maybe Kronk on the laundry bag but not the shorts. If the shorts were intermixed with the bags, maybe Kronk's DNA on both, IF he touched the mass of items.

However, and again IF anyone's DNA is found on both shorts AND laundry bag, IMO it would most likely be George's, as he lived in the house with Caylee and would have interacted with the laundry bag in the garage while it was being used to store the plastic balls, etc.

BUT--why aren't they requesting "touch DNA" analysis on the duct tape???

And why aren't they requesting "touch DNA" analysis on the garbage bags?

I see London, I see France, I see the defense's desperate plans....
 
Dear Prudence said:
I knew about the DNA being found on Jon Benets pants, that's when I first heard of Touch DNA. What I didn't know was that the Eikelenbooms were the ones who did the testing.

Yes, I'd be very surprised and suspicious too if they get any DNA from the evidence. But I also wonder what will happen if they find only KC's DNA on the items. Would the defense be required to reveal that or can they just keep quiet?
Click to expand...

BBM

If that happens, we will hear JB announce in court that "it just didn't work out" with the E's. Kinda like with that other expert who tested and dropped outta site. I believe JB stated in the hearing yesterday that "it just didn't work out". I take that to mean the expert didn't tell him what he wanted to hear. JMO.
 
Dear Prudence said:
The Eikelenbooms and their expertise in Touch DNA is being discussed on several different threads, so I thought it would be nice to try and consolidate the infomation to one thread.

Richard and Selma Eikelenboom are Dutch forensic scientists that specialize in evidence analysis and DNA extraction. They own a company in the Netherlands called Independent Forensic Services. Information on their expertise can be found at their website:

http://www.forensic-services.nl/

Baez filed a motion which was argued at a status hearing yesterday 9/27/10 in which he wanted to send the canvas laundry bag and the pair of shorts found with Caylee to the Eikelenbooms lab in the Netherlands in order for them to attempt to extract DNA. Judge Perry stated he will not allow the evidence to leave the country. Baez stated the Eikelenbooms are opening a lab in Denver, CO and they could test the evidence there. JP said he would be inclined to grant that but would formally rule later this week.

Things of interest to me include:
Richard and Selma Eikelenboom themselves & are they renowned in their field as the defense claims

What is Touch DNA, is it a technique allowed in US criminal cases

Defense reasoning on testing those 2 particular items, the canvas bag and the shorts & what do you think they'll find and the implications
Click to expand...

They are hoping and will probably find unsourced DNA so they can say - see there is an intruder of some sort here and that leaves you (the jury) with reasonable doubt. Baez probably thought of this gem since he has absolutely nothing else and his client is going to be convicted. MY opinion
 
ynotdivein said:
DP, thank you for starting this thread. I'm reposting a response I made on a different thread here, and looking forward to the conversation!

Which SOD's DNA would most likely be on the laundry bag that came from the Anthony home, and Caylee's shorts that were also at the Anthony home? GA. Defense probably figures finding Kronk's DNA would just be a bonus, but if there is any DNA remaining on those items, it's most likely to be Caylee's, KC's, George's, or Cindy's.

Anyone remember off the top of their head how far from the central remains site (bags and skull) the shorts were found?

If (big IF) there is remaining DNA that would show up in "touch DNA" testing, and IF the shorts were still in or mixed with the bags, I'd imagine one might find Kronk's DNA on both items if he bent down to touch it when he found it. If the shorts were farther away then maybe Kronk on the laundry bag but not the shorts. If the shorts were intermixed with the bags, maybe Kronk's DNA on both, IF he touched the mass of items.

However, and again IF anyone's DNA is found on both shorts AND laundry bag, IMO it would most likely be George's, as he lived in the house with Caylee and would have interacted with the laundry bag in the garage while it was being used to store the plastic balls, etc.

BUT--why aren't they requesting "touch DNA" analysis on the duct tape???

And why aren't they requesting "touch DNA" analysis on the garbage bags?

I see London, I see France, I see the defense's desperate plans....
Click to expand...

If I were CA or GA, I'd be preparing to dodge that bus! JB is looking for anything at all that points away from his little murderess. Assuming that RK is telling the truth about urinating in the woods that day, what would be the chances that he might have "sprinkled" his DNA on any of the items? I would think that that garbage bag he then saw and found the skull in would be the most likely patsy, so why not test it? Message to GA: Watch your back!
 
chefmom said:
BBM

If that happens, we will hear JB announce in court that "it just didn't work out" with the E's. Kinda like with that other expert who tested and dropped outta site. I believe JB stated in the hearing yesterday that "it just didn't work out". I take that to mean the expert didn't tell him what he wanted to hear. JMO.
Click to expand...

Yes, and if he actually gets this done before trial, I would love to be a fly-on-the-wall when he gets the results. Think he's grasping at straws with this one.
 
Dear Prudence said:
This link claims the Eikelenbooms were the ones who recently indentified the DNA on Jon Benet Ramsey's clothing. Is that true? I don't remember hearing their names before. Intersting!

http://www.uis.edu/innocenceproject/events/touchdna/reikelenboom.html
Click to expand...

Hi Prudence. According to this article it is not true (unless one of them was working for Bode at the time):

"Then, late last year, prosecutors turned over long underwear JonBenet was wearing to the Bode Technology Group near Washington, which looked for "touch DNA," contained in skin cells left behind where someone has touched something. The lab has used this technology for at least three years."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,379041,00.html
 
chefmom said:
Uhm. . . Ok. . . This article states that SE is hard-nosed, known for snapping at lazy investigators, sloppy lab techs, and people who don't share her socialists views. :waitasec: She DOES realize that Colorado is situated in the United States of America, doesn't she?
USAFlag.gif
And, I wonder how she feels about snapping at lazy defense attorneys? Oh, wait! Apparently, she enjoys working with them if it will get her name on the airwaves. I am soooo not impressed!
Click to expand...

"Though world-renowned in their fields, the couple have registered as grad students at the University of Denver, where he'll research touch DNA and she'll study ways to determine the time of death. Having the letters "P," "H" and "D" after their names, they say, should help disarm their naysayers."

Read more: Greene: In death, pair found a calling - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_12102408#ixzz10qHexIh5
 
ExpectingUnicorns said:
Hi Prudence. According to this article it is not true (unless one of them was working for Bode at the time):

"Then, late last year, prosecutors turned over long underwear JonBenet was wearing to the Bode Technology Group near Washington, which looked for "touch DNA," contained in skin cells left behind where someone has touched something. The lab has used this technology for at least three years."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,379041,00.html
Click to expand...

Thank You! I knew I had heard another company's name but couldn't think of it. Bode Technology it is.
 
chefmom said:
BBM

If that happens, we will hear JB announce in court that "it just didn't work out" with the E's. Kinda like with that other expert who tested and dropped outta site. I believe JB stated in the hearing yesterday that "it just didn't work out". I take that to mean the expert didn't tell him what he wanted to hear. JMO.
Click to expand...

I thought the same thing! "Unfortunately it didn't work out." They didn't have the right equipment blah blah...I think they concurred with the State's witness/wouldn't tell them what they wanted to hear."
 
I posted this yesterday on another thread:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5637468&postcount=31"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - JB Wants ICA Present at Depositions of Jail Inmates and Personnel[/ame]
 
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