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Thread: What's in this cellar room photo?

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    Dunno in which depo it is but it's either Beckner or ST who says that the nightgown had blood on it.I swear I read it somewhere.
    Take a GOOD look at that FILTHY room. Look at that floor covered with mold. And Patsy would have it believe she wrapped GIFTS in that room? No way.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

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  3. #152
    YOU ARE SO RIGHT DEEDEE! I havn't even thought about that....just another thing that makes PR utterly unvbelievable....

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  5. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    Take a GOOD look at that FILTHY room. Look at that floor covered with mold. And Patsy would have it believe she wrapped GIFTS in that room? No way.
    I dunno. The woman couldn't remember when her child had a bath last, didn't teach her children to pick up after themselves, let her child go around with stained underwear on (even though she knew JBR asked others to wipe her) and claimed she wore clothes more than once.

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  7. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by my_tee_mouse View Post
    I dunno. The woman couldn't remember when her child had a bath last, didn't teach her children to pick up after themselves, let her child go around with stained underwear on (even though she knew JBR asked others to wipe her) and claimed she wore clothes more than once.
    I know, but this is different. Patsy was a MESSY person, not a dirty one. She was meticulous in her dress and her kids' clothes, too. JB didn't go around like a ragamuffin. The stained undies are inexcusable, I agree. Little kids' undies are CHEAP. Replace them or skip the floral prints and buy white that can be bleached. But in this case, it was laziness.
    Believe it or not, I knew moms who gave their kids a bath only about 2-3 times a week. I gave my kids baths every single day unless they were too sick. Patsy may seem unusual, but it isn't unheard of. Keep in mind that when she was being questioned, she was being evasive. I think it makes sense that with Christmas day being as busy as it is in most homes with kids, that JB didn't get a bath that day, especially with the family leaving for the White's late afternoon and returning home 10 pm at night. If Christmas eve was as busy, she probably had a bath the day of the R Christmas party Dec.23rd. Not THAT unusual. Not really.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

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  9. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    Take a GOOD look at that FILTHY room. Look at that floor covered with mold. And Patsy would have it believe she wrapped GIFTS in that room? No way.
    Awww...Patsy was full of it.
    "This time we get it right."

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  11. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    I know, but this is different. Patsy was a MESSY person, not a dirty one. She was meticulous in her dress and her kids' clothes, too. JB didn't go around like a ragamuffin. The stained undies are inexcusable, I agree. Little kids' undies are CHEAP. Replace them or skip the floral prints and buy white that can be bleached. But in this case, it was laziness.
    Believe it or not, I knew moms who gave their kids a bath only about 2-3 times a week. I gave my kids baths every single day unless they were too sick. Patsy may seem unusual, but it isn't unheard of. Keep in mind that when she was being questioned, she was being evasive. I think it makes sense that with Christmas day being as busy as it is in most homes with kids, that JB didn't get a bath that day, especially with the family leaving for the White's late afternoon and returning home 10 pm at night. If Christmas eve was as busy, she probably had a bath the day of the R Christmas party Dec.23rd. Not THAT unusual. Not really.
    But, JB left pants in the floor with dirty undies in them...after wearing them to play in that day. Looks like she would have had a bath after dirtying her undies...and before going to the Whites. Yes, that IS pure laziness on Patsy's part.
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  13. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoldKase View Post
    Your theory is interesting, but as for the knots, couldn't he have untied those or removed them much easier when staging the body in the cellar room, before "finding" her there much later with an audience?
    Maybe he didn't realize at first,if RDI,these were not experienced killers,trained to pay attention to every detail.
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  15. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    Take a GOOD look at that FILTHY room. Look at that floor covered with mold. And Patsy would have it believe she wrapped GIFTS in that room? No way.
    Why do you thin they lied about her wrapping gifts down there?To explain the fibers?
    There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way, and not starting.
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  17. #159
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    It does seem an odd choice of places to wrap presents considering the size of the house there would have been plenty of better places to do so.
    But why would someone lie like that, this is why i seem to be sat up the fence so much, silly things lied about that make no sense.

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  19. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
    I had thoughts of MM when I saw what I believe to be a Barbie in the photo, but MM had nothing to do with JonBenet's case. LE did get a dna swab as well as just about everything you could get from a suspect and nothing pointed to him except his Barbie fetish. I thought it was interesting on the link you provided that one poster pointed out MM went through the whole investigation without once asking for a lawyer. I know it's wise to obtain a lawyer, but this kinda points out that if you're innocent, it does not have to be the first thing you do.
    I did think it was kind of odd how MM pointed out that his computer was not seized or investigated at all.Could it be possible that BR was in contact with him in chat rooms and MM could have kind of influenced BR ,who seemed to have been ignored quite a bit and jealous of his barbie doll sister.Maybe they started fantasizing about different sick scenarios online .
    Maybe Jon Benet's death started out as a twisted online fantasy?

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  21. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    Why do you thin they lied about her wrapping gifts down there?To explain the fibers?
    IMO...YEP. The same reason that Patsy said that she threw herself onto JB's body, to explain away her sweater/jacket fibers being on her. Nevermind that Ardnt had already covered up JB's body when she did that. (SO, how did Patsy's fibers become entwined in the garotte, and on the sticky side of the tape that JB had covering her mouth, that JOHN had already removed in the WC, BEFORE Patsy flung herself on the body?)
    "This time we get it right."

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  23. #162
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    From what I've read about the fibers they aren't an exact match. Her sweater was black and red and only red fibers were found on the tape. The fiber evidence against Patsy is flimsy at best.
    The fibers found in her panties Hmmmm.
    Let me ask a couple of questions here and share my observation. Look at the panty photos done by KoldKase. It is obvious they are hugely baggy. I could explain away JR's shirt fibers being there on her panties if she hadn't been wearing those long johns. It would be easy to transfer your fibers to the crotch area carrying her body up the stairs as the panties are so big they could be turned inside out at the crotch area picking her up.
    How did fibers that can be matched to a shirt JR was wearing and are rather rare get there ( assuming he is innocent). They are cotton from Israel and that is what makes them rarer than say carpet fibers etc.

    The mold on the basement floor---- why are mold spores not on JBR or at least not in the autopsy report. Looking at the photos I can't tell what the grayish, powdery substance is on the floor, I am assuming it is mold from reading previous posts.

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  25. #163
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    While we are on the subject of JR's shirt fibers:

    Are the found fibers from the shirt JR had on the day JBR was found, are the fibers from the shirt JR had on Christmas Day, or did he, like Patsy, claim that on the 26th he threw on the same shirt he had on the 25th?

    I imagine this has been addressed, but I don't remember the answer if that's the case. So TIA to anyone who can refresh my memory.

  26. #164
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    what did the Christmas barbie for 1996 look like? or some of the previous yrs,withing JB's lifetime? anyone? it looks like possibly a Holiday barbie to me,the ones that come out only at Christmas.

    ETA: found it,and it certainly appears to be a possiblity to me:

    http://www.fashion-doll-guide.com/19...ay-Barbie.html
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

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  28. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    IMO...YEP. The same reason that Patsy said that she threw herself onto JB's body, to explain away her sweater/jacket fibers being on her. Nevermind that Ardnt had already covered up JB's body when she did that. (SO, how did Patsy's fibers become entwined in the garotte, and on the sticky side of the tape that JB had covering her mouth, that JOHN had already removed in the WC, BEFORE Patsy flung herself on the body?)
    Maybe she chose to do it down there so she won't be caught by the kids and spoil the surprise,just a thought.
    There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way, and not starting.
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  29. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyR View Post
    From what I've read about the fibers they aren't an exact match. Her sweater was black and red and only red fibers were found on the tape. The fiber evidence against Patsy is flimsy at best.
    The fibers found in her panties Hmmmm.
    Let me ask a couple of questions here and share my observation. Look at the panty photos done by KoldKase. It is obvious they are hugely baggy. I could explain away JR's shirt fibers being there on her panties if she hadn't been wearing those long johns. It would be easy to transfer your fibers to the crotch area carrying her body up the stairs as the panties are so big they could be turned inside out at the crotch area picking her up.
    How did fibers that can be matched to a shirt JR was wearing and are rather rare get there ( assuming he is innocent). They are cotton from Israel and that is what makes them rarer than say carpet fibers etc.

    The mold on the basement floor---- why are mold spores not on JBR or at least not in the autopsy report. Looking at the photos I can't tell what the grayish, powdery substance is on the floor, I am assuming it is mold from reading previous posts.
    From the reading I've done, John showered and changed clothes that morning. The black fibers from the previous day's shirt would not have transferred as he brought her upstairs.
    "This Time We Get it Right!"

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  31. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    Maybe she chose to do it down there so she won't be caught by the kids and spoil the surprise,just a thought.
    I guess this is a possibility, but does anyone know if all the cellar rooms had the mold on the floor? If not, I would think she would have used one of those to avoid the mold. I am very allergic to mold and I would have left dna all over that room (from all the sneezing).
    Here's another question. Did LE ever ask Patsy if she was down there that night wrapping gifts to take to Charlevoix? If she was as behind in all of her Christmas chores as she led LE to believe, it only makes sense that she would have been.
    "This Time We Get it Right!"

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." Stuart Chase

  32. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyR View Post
    From what I've read about the fibers they aren't an exact match. Her sweater was black and red and only red fibers were found on the tape. The fiber evidence against Patsy is flimsy at best.
    Her SWEATER was all red. Her fleece jacket was red and black. As for being flimsy, again, you have to take it all in context. When PR was questioned about those fibers in 2000, she had no answer. When asked two years later, in Oct of 2002 by a reporter, she claimed that her fibers would have transferred when she lay on top of JB's body. Problem with that is that, by JR's own words, JB had already been covered up with a second blanket before PR even came into the room AND that doesn't account for the fibers down in the basement on items that did not come up with JB's body. PR claimed she never went downstairs in those clothes. I hope PR asked her lawyer for her money back if she gave him any.
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  34. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by CathyR View Post
    From what I've read about the fibers they aren't an exact match. Her sweater was black and red and only red fibers were found on the tape. The fiber evidence against Patsy is flimsy at best.
    The fibers found in her panties Hmmmm.
    Let me ask a couple of questions here and share my observation. Look at the panty photos done by KoldKase. It is obvious they are hugely baggy. I could explain away JR's shirt fibers being there on her panties if she hadn't been wearing those long johns. It would be easy to transfer your fibers to the crotch area carrying her body up the stairs as the panties are so big they could be turned inside out at the crotch area picking her up.
    How did fibers that can be matched to a shirt JR was wearing and are rather rare get there ( assuming he is innocent). They are cotton from Israel and that is what makes them rarer than say carpet fibers etc.

    The mold on the basement floor---- why are mold spores not on JBR or at least not in the autopsy report. Looking at the photos I can't tell what the grayish, powdery substance is on the floor, I am assuming it is mold from reading previous posts.
    I found a little additional info on a forensic scientist who was hired to conduct microscopic testing on "particles" taken from the body/crime scene and posted it on a new thread at FFJ, under "The Dust Detective." If you'd like to read what I found, you can go there for the articles/links. It's not much, but the forensic scientist is an expert and wrote a 40 page report on the "particles" in this case.

    The bad news: we have no idea what the report says. Worse--he had this evidence in his lab for 10 years before Lacy got it back when she arrested PERV Karr, ostensibly to prepare for a case against him, I'm guessing.

    Gosh, I wish we knew what that report said. It might clear up a lot of questions we have. But I know why we can't see it--and never will. sigh
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  36. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
    I guess this is a possibility, but does anyone know if all the cellar rooms had the mold on the floor? If not, I would think she would have used one of those to avoid the mold. I am very allergic to mold and I would have left dna all over that room (from all the sneezing).
    Here's another question. Did LE ever ask Patsy if she was down there that night wrapping gifts to take to Charlevoix? If she was as behind in all of her Christmas chores as she led LE to believe, it only makes sense that she would have been.
    I'm thinking that Patsy and John both said in an LE interview--maybe '98?--that Patsy was wrapping presents in the basement Christmas Day? It's in the transcripts, unless I'm completely misremembering.

    I also seem to remember that Patsy had a particular space in the basement for wrapping presents, but I'm thinking it was not the cellar room. Another room? Sorry, memory fuzzy....
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  38. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMO8778 View Post
    what did the Christmas barbie for 1996 look like? or some of the previous yrs,withing JB's lifetime? anyone? it looks like possibly a Holiday barbie to me,the ones that come out only at Christmas.

    ETA: found it,and it certainly appears to be a possiblity to me:

    http://www.fashion-doll-guide.com/19...ay-Barbie.html
    Yes!! It looks just like the Christmas 1996 Barbie. If you look closely at the crime scene photo, you can see what looks like a gold dress closest to the blanket!! I think you got it!
    The above is my opinion only based on published accounts of the case.

  39. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by KoldKase View Post
    I'm thinking that Patsy and John both said in an LE interview--maybe '98?--that Patsy was wrapping presents in the basement Christmas Day? It's in the transcripts, unless I'm completely misremembering.

    I also seem to remember that Patsy had a particular space in the basement for wrapping presents, but I'm thinking it was not the cellar room. Another room? Sorry, memory fuzzy....

    Here are the facts: Patsy wrapped Christmas presents in the laundry room, then she placed the wrapped gifts in the wine cellar. She retrieved those Christmas presents on Christmas Eve. She also left some presents in the wine cellar that were for Burke's upcoming Birthday.

    The reason there were torn packages down in the wc was because of the party on the 23d. Patsy went down to the wc to try and find a gift for LHP's daughter...who was a last minute guest.
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

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  41. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toltec View Post
    Here are the facts: Patsy wrapped Christmas presents in the laundry room, then she placed the wrapped gifts in the wine cellar. She retrieved those Christmas presents on Christmas Eve. She also left some presents in the wine cellar that were for Burke's upcoming Birthday.

    The reason there were torn packages down in the wc was because of the party on the 23d. Patsy went down to the wc to try and find a gift for LHP's daughter...who was a last minute guest.

    I recall Patsy claimed she tore a few because she couldn't remember what was in them.


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  43. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfmarsGirl View Post
    Yes!! It looks just like the Christmas 1996 Barbie. If you look closely at the crime scene photo, you can see what looks like a gold dress closest to the blanket!! I think you got it!
    that's what I think,too.the outline and colors appear to be just the same.
    something to ponder:

    When the corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and the mortal have put on immortality, then shall we be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

    The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
    But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Corinthians 15:54-57

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  45. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    Why do you thin they lied about her wrapping gifts down there?To explain the fibers?
    Well for one thing, police found partially unwrapped gifts THERE. How else to explain it? To say that intruder began unwrapping presents just in case there was a pair of panties in there sounds ludicrous even for Patsy.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

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