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Thread: OPP charge Col. Williams, 82 add'l charges - PLEADS GUILTY #3

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipflop View Post
    I wonder if RW's lawyer is rushing this case to finish before any further DNA testing of cold cases is complete and also before the Government gets around to making changes to sentencing for serial killers.

    Does anyone else recall reading in a recent article(last 2 weeks) about LE not investigating any cold cases yet in regards to RW???. If thats the case, RW's DNA would not have been tested on these cases YET. I have a feeling that his DNA is going to keep LE busy for a few years.

    RW and MEH purchased the house on Edison on Dec 17, 2009 They were having construction done so I am wondering when they actually moved in?
    (BBM)

    They moved in just a few days before Christmas—a month after Comeau was killed, and a month before Lloyd went missing. They had been there barely a month (and Williams mostly on weekends) when cops came looking for the stolen lingerie.

    http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/07/27/the-colonels-wife/5/
    Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feeling for the strength of their argument. - William E. Gladstone

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  3. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    ITA. It's hard to imagine them meeting even for a short period of time without anyone remembering. It's not as if one of them would immediately discover that they had this "interest" in common. ("Hi, there! My name is PB. I like to rape and kill. How about you? Really? Cool! Let's be secret pals!")

    Even if they had a secret friendship that no one knew about, with one serving a life sentence and another about to, neither has much to lose by admitting it. In fact, if there were any way to prove it, I'd bet one or both would be eager to pin blame for some of those early crimes on the other. Statistics show that almost all organized serial killers work alone. That PB managed to hook up with KH was already an anomaly.

    JMO
    Of course PB would not be introducing himself like that. However it does not take a stretch in imagination to consider that they may have crossed paths on public transportation or in an environment amongst strangers. A conversation could have began like this PB: "Aren't you that guy that breaks into other peoples rooms? I heard you are really good at picking locks." (A blossoming friendship?)

    This link http://watchingkarlahomolka.yuku.com/topic/2162 suggests that PB was a braggart and did tell people about his criminal affairs.

    Any conclusion either way is completely presumptuous.

    Somebody mentioned somewhere that PB had an Asian girlfriend. I cannot find evidence of this but if it is indeed the case then this would put them into a fairly exclusive group at the college and I find it unlikely that they would not at least know of each other.

    The fact remains, we simply do not know if they know each other or not.

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  5. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiquegirl View Post
    (BBM)

    They moved in just a few days before Christmas—a month after Comeau was killed, and a month before Lloyd went missing. They had been there barely a month (and Williams mostly on weekends) when cops came looking for the stolen lingerie.

    http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/07/27/the-colonels-wife/5/
    Thanks AG, I missed that when reading this article. It really didn't give MEH much time to stumble across or even notice the boxes of trophies with it being Christmas, her busy job PLUS a move to a new home.

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  7. #104
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    This may be of some use:

    http://www.opconline.ca/depts/omcm/C...view%20PDF.pdf

    Pages 32 and 38 refer to the broken window and the "oriental".
    Last edited by Summersolstice; 10-12-2010 at 10:13 PM.

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  9. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summersolstice View Post
    This may be of some use:

    http://www.opconline.ca/depts/omcm/C...view%20PDF.pdf

    Pages 32 and 38 refer to the broken window and the "oriental".
    IIRC, Jeff F said to the effect that RW went with his Japanese gf until his final year at U of T (which would be 1987)

    So yes, IMO it leaves one to wonder if RW's ex-oriental gf might be another connection between RW and PB IF she was also PB's ex-oriental gf, and the same ex-gf who reported PB 4 months after the window-breaking incident.

    From Justice Campbell's review:

    Pg 38:

    Sept. 1987–oriental broke Paul's windows (occurrence on file)
    then 4 months later we have ...

    Pg 342:

    Jan 5 1988 - Bernardo's ex–girlfriend speaks to Sergeant McNiff
    McNiff submits 3 page report about Bernardo, suggesting he should
    be considered a suspect in the Scarborough rapes
    WRT the article reporting that RW and PB were pals, etc ... todate, neither the Toronto Sun nor LE have issued any statement to refute that information, and when OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino had the opportunity to refute or clarify, he did not do either ... Instead:

    from: http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2...45766-qmi.html

    When contacted about the revelation of Bernardo and Williams attending U of T Scarborough at the same time, Commissioner Julian Fantino vowed that when “new aspects come to light, the OPP will investigate.”

    “We are committed to ensure that every aspect of this is investigated and looked in to,” Fantino told the Sun Thursday night. “I am very confident thanks to the great co-operation of the OPP, Belleville Police, and military investigators.”

    The commissioner said cops want as much information as possible about Williams’ early years.

    “We welcome any information members of the public may have on this and encourage them to contact us,” he said.
    IF that oriental female is one and the same, then we have yet another pointer towards a connection between RW and PB.

    I know there are those who think it is not PB in the group pic with RW, others who think it is (yours truly included), and others who are undecided. That picture was provided to the press by someone (whether LE, friends, or family). The reason it is important to determine whether it is PB or not is we have the initial assertion that there was a relationship, that assertion has not been refuted by anyone. Then we have RW's long-term friend Jeff saying to the effect "if RW knew PB I would have known PB", but we have nothing on which to base his credibility or lack thereof. IF it is PB in that pic, Jeff F is in that same pic, and we have a problem or not.

    ther_beatingA_Dead

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  11. #106
    If it is PB in the pic, I doubt JF would deny it because the pic would speak for itself. He would have to assume that the truth would likely be exposed, and quickly.

    That pic is so public that I think it would have been determined by media by now if indeed PB is present in the photo.

    Although the oriental girl may be the same, statistically speaking, it is most likely two different people.
    Two white guys with Asian girlfriends in 1987 would have noticed each-other if they saw the other with an Asian girlfriend. To me it adds to the things they had in common.

    If it is two different girls they too would have much in common, including rocky relationships.

    These guys had so much in common at that time that one must wonder.

    The obvious question is: Why is there not an obvious connection? If there is a connection I think the answer would be that it is because these are two very conniving and sinister individuals.

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  13. #107
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    Calculated timing for this particular article in the Ottawa Sun?
    http://www.ottawasun.com/news/column.../15667466.html

    Her voice message said she had something to tell me as a warning to all wives who think they have great husbands and great marriages.

    I’d met her briefly once before, about six years ago, at an event she was involved with. She’s in her 50s, very attractive, bright, a professional.





    The woman I met, and her husband, had been married 30 years. He died of a sudden, massive, heart attack. It was a shock. They’d always enjoyed good health. They jogged together, played golf together. They had an active social life. She says their sex life was good right to the end. He was a successful businessman.

    “We had friends who got divorced, or had affairs, but he and I would tell each other how lucky we were, that it was never going to happen to us because we loved each other too much. We’d never cheat. Friends envied our marriage. ‘Oh, you two are just like childhood sweethearts,’ they’d say.”

    When her perfect husband in the perfect marriage died, she was sorting through his belongings, deciding what to keep, what not to keep.

    That’s when she found them. In a metal box he’d hidden away behind papers, at the back of the bottom drawer of a filing cabinet in his office at home. He’d covered the box in a towel and on top of the towel were papers.

    She discovered he’d been having an affair for years. “There were cards and letters from a woman who only signed them with a name you couldn’t put in the paper. The last one was dated two weeks before he died. They went back seven years.

  14. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by star traveller View Post
    If it is PB in the pic, I doubt JF would deny it because the pic would speak for itself. He would have to assume that the truth would likely be exposed, and quickly.

    That pic is so public that I think it would have been determined by media by now if indeed PB is present in the photo.

    Although the oriental girl may be the same, statistically speaking, it is most likely two different people.
    Two white guys with Asian girlfriends in 1987 would have noticed each-other if they saw the other with an Asian girlfriend. To me it adds to the things they had in common.

    If it is two different girls they too would have much in common, including rocky relationships.

    These guys had so much in common at that time that one must wonder.

    The obvious question is: Why is there not an obvious connection? If there is a connection I think the answer would be that it is because these are two very conniving and sinister individuals.
    Flute,trumpet,drums?

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  16. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by sillybilly View Post
    IIRC, Jeff F said to the effect that RW went with his Japanese gf until his final year at U of T (which would be 1987)

    So yes, IMO it leaves one to wonder if RW's ex-oriental gf might be another connection between RW and PB IF she was also PB's ex-oriental gf, and the same ex-gf who reported PB 4 months after the window-breaking incident.

    From Justice Campbell's review:

    Pg 38:


    then 4 months later we have ...

    Pg 342:



    WRT the article reporting that RW and PB were pals, etc ... todate, neither the Toronto Sun nor LE have issued any statement to refute that information, and when OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino had the opportunity to refute or clarify, he did not do either ... Instead:

    from: http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2...45766-qmi.html



    IF that oriental female is one and the same, then we have yet another pointer towards a connection between RW and PB.

    I know there are those who think it is not PB in the group pic with RW, others who think it is (yours truly included), and others who are undecided. That picture was provided to the press by someone (whether LE, friends, or family). The reason it is important to determine whether it is PB or not is we have the initial assertion that there was a relationship, that assertion has not been refuted by anyone. Then we have RW's long-term friend Jeff saying to the effect "if RW knew PB I would have known PB", but we have nothing on which to base his credibility or lack thereof. IF it is PB in that pic, Jeff F is in that same pic, and we have a problem or not.

    ther_beatingA_Dead
    It should be noted that earlier media articles described RW's breakup with his girlfriend who was a "Japanese exchange student" at the U. of T. Similarly, PB's "oriental" girlfriend was also a student at U. of T.

    RW is alleged to have stalked his victims. If RW stalked his ex-girlfriend, chances are he might have known who she dated after they broke up.

    PB stalked his victims.

    Earlier reports also stated that RW worked for a time at a Red Lobster restaurant. PB was known to be fond of frequenting certain restaurants, although I don't recall reading which ones were his favorites. That is a missing piece of the puzzle, but another way the two could have met.

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  18. #110

    A Theory

    Media reports indicate that RW is interested in keeping some evidence out of the public realm. This was reported as a contributing factor to his guilty plea as opposed to trial.

    A man of his intelligence, training and skill would have anticipated getting caught someday and prepared for it. Once he was in as deep as he was he would have realized that once LE was onto him he was going to go down. So in 2007 he began documenting evidence, Or possibly purged older evidence. His goal would have been to control how he was going to go down.

    The only evidence mentioned in media reports is the evidence that RW himself has provided to LE. He basically built his own case against himself, and very thoroughly (cataloging evidence including spreadsheets).

    It is apparent now that a deal exists between RW and LE. It is possible that part of the deal could include a clause that LE only use the evidence that he himself provided. It appears to be the case because other than Julian Fantino's necessary generic statement, LE appears to not be investigating any further and has even made statements as such.

    There are many reasons LE would be motivated to agree to a deal like this. A trial would cost taxpayers, impact the victims, and highlight the numerous mistakes they made throughout the investigations.

    If they did make a deal like this, LE would be highly motivated to keep it quiet. They would not want to be accused of making another "deal with devil".

    Perhaps LE now knows that RW is indeed the woodland rapist (an example). They would not be able to disclose this because of the deal. The case of the woodland rapist would now be unofficial closed. "Unofficial" because officially closing the case would involve making the information public and violate the deal.

    If LE is aware that PB and RW did know each-other then LE would be motivated to not publicly disclose this. If the public were made aware of the relationship it would immediately become obvious that RW's crimes predate 2007.

    If this theory is accurate then RW has LE between a rock and a hard place. Exactly where he would have planned on putting them. And RW could avoid having to deal with the greater public shame of victimizing children or sexually victimizing his own gender.

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  20. #111
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    I found this information about EB. The relevant portion is in reply #3:

    http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=1864.0

    It says that PB had an intense hatred of women with EB's appearance, because she looked like a former girlfriend who dumped him.

    Here are some photos of EB:

    http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/417759

    http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...ub=TorontoHome
    Last edited by Salem; 10-14-2010 at 11:24 AM.

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  22. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summersolstice View Post
    I found this information about Elizabeth Bain. The relevant portion is in reply #3:

    http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=1864.0

    It says that PB had an intense hatred of women with EB's appearance, because she looked like a former girlfriend who dumped him.

    Here are some photos of EB:

    http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/417759

    http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...ub=TorontoHome
    What is the relevance of E. Bain? or the fact that PB's intense hatred for women that looked like his ex-girlfriend? I really don't see the relevance of those two things in regards to the case we are discussing. If PB and RW knew each other, or even were friends/aquaintances, the media would have found out about it by now and mentioned it - that kind of information sells newspapers. Someone out there that would gladly share that bit of information, even if it was just to get their name in the paper for some limelight. With that being said, I believe there is no connection to PB and RW. The fact that they may have both dated an oriental woman while at University is nothing more than a coincidence (in MOO) based on the fact that there is a very large oriental population in Scaroborugh, I should know, I grew up and there and lived most of my life right around the corner from the UofT Scarborough campus.

    All I know is that I'm looking forward to the sentencing next week to see what has transpired between the last court appearance and now, and whether any type of "deal" was struck between RW's counsel and the prosecution.

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  24. #113
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    Would it be too much to hope that LE will look at this one more time with wide-open eyes? Who knows, they might find some commonalities:

    http://www.opconline.ca/depts/omcm/C...view%20PDF.pdf

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  26. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotr View Post
    Flute,trumpet,drums?
    That's right dotr ... and in PB's residence, they actually had a room they called "the music room". I wonder if he held any jam sessions with other musicians.

    ETA: Big difference tho' with PB into rap, and RW into jazz.
    Last edited by sillybilly; 10-14-2010 at 03:21 AM. Reason: ETA

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  28. #115
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    Judge mulls media coverage of Williams' sentencing

    "The Ontario Superior Court will begin to consider Thursday how the media can report on the sentencing of Col. Russell Williams.

    Williams is expected to appear in the Belleville, Ont., court Thursday for the pre-trial motions ahead of his Oct. 18 where his lawyer has announced he plans plead guilty to the slayings of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 38, and Jessica Lloyd, 27, of Belleville, as well as two sexual assaults and 82 break-in-related charges in the Quinte and Ottawa areas."


    "The debate in court on Thursday is expected to focus on what should remain sealed to protect the victims and what should be released publicly and be allowed to be reported on once the sentencing hearing begins."

    http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/20.../15684996.html

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  30. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobodyzgirl View Post
    "The Ontario Superior Court will begin to consider Thursday how the media can report on the sentencing of Col. Russell Williams.

    Williams is expected to appear in the Belleville, Ont., court Thursday for the pre-trial motions ahead of his Oct. 18 where his lawyer has announced he plans plead guilty to the slayings of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 38, and Jessica Lloyd, 27, of Belleville, as well as two sexual assaults and 82 break-in-related charges in the Quinte and Ottawa areas."


    "The debate in court on Thursday is expected to focus on what should remain sealed to protect the victims and what should be released publicly and be allowed to be reported on once the sentencing hearing begins."

    http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/20.../15684996.html
    Here's the 800-pound gorilla in the room: this could include the suppression of any plea deals/sentencing leniency given in consideration for information provided by the defendant, thereby avoiding the infamous debacle over the "deal with the devil" in the past.

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  32. #117
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    I wanted to bring up the issue of mulitiple police jurisdictions within Ottawa, and the National Capital Region. Here's an incident that is unrelated to this case, but points out the issue:

    http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/st...656/story.html

    Depending on where a person commits a crime, various police forces could be involved. Seems like the ideal place for criminals wishing to avoid detection.

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  34. #118
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    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZk8ronces"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZk8ronces[/ame]

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  36. #119
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    Reminder: We do not sleuth innocent family members or bring their names here unless they are in the MSM and connected to the case in some way. AND even then, we change all names to initials.

    We do not tell each other how to post. This just makes things difficult for the mods. So - alert the post and move on.

    I have removed several posts that named family members or were off topic or bossy. Please alert posts that are offensive or if you think they violate TOS. It really does make our job easier if you just hit the little red triangle in the upper right side of the post.

    Thanks,

    Salem

    PS - If you have questions about this - send them to me or another mod in a PM. DO NOT post them in the open thread. Thanks Guys!

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  38. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summersolstice View Post
    Here's the 800-pound gorilla in the room: this could include the suppression of any plea deals/sentencing leniency given in consideration for information provided by the defendant, thereby avoiding the infamous debacle over the "deal with the devil" in the past.
    The motions being heard today are from lawyers representing the media and have absolutely nothing to do with any agreement reached on behalf of the defendant.

    Today, Judge Robert Scott will be hearing motions from lawyers representing media agencies and is expected to decide how much can be reported and whether journalists will be allowed to bring electronic devices such as smartphones and laptops into the courtroom to file stories and updates.

    http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loca...hub=OttawaHome

    The publication ban is to protect the victims (i.e., not publishing the name of one of the women that were sexually assaulted - the other has waived her right to have her name withheld). The ban is not to protect RW at all - he will get enough protection once he is in segregation in the Kinsgton pen (if they decide to send him there and not somewhere else in Canada).

    There will not be a "deal with the devil" as RW is the only one charged with the crimes, and there will not be a trial (just a plea and then a sentence), where anyone has to testify against him (which was the reason for that deal, a reduced sentence in exchange for testifying at the trial of the co-accused).

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  40. #121
    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/...a-hearing.html

    Among the evidence is a lengthy statement a co-operative Williams made to police on the day of his arrest, as well as boxes of items seized during raids the same day at Williams's two homes in Ottawa and Tweed. Those boxes contain reams of photographs and articles of women's clothing along with meticulous notes Williams kept about break-ins and thefts in both communities.

    And LE appears to not have a stitch of evidence other than what RW handed over. Not even a mention of DNA.

    RW is in control. (JMO)

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  42. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobodyzgirl View Post
    The motions being heard today are from lawyers representing the media and have absolutely nothing to do with any agreement reached on behalf of the defendant.

    Today, Judge Robert Scott will be hearing motions from lawyers representing media agencies and is expected to decide how much can be reported and whether journalists will be allowed to bring electronic devices such as smartphones and laptops into the courtroom to file stories and updates.

    http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loca...hub=OttawaHome

    The publication ban is to protect the victims (i.e., not publishing the name of one of the women that were sexually assaulted - the other has waived her right to have her name withheld). The ban is not to protect RW at all - he will get enough protection once he is in segregation in the Kinsgton pen (if they decide to send him there and not somewhere else in Canada).

    There will not be a "deal with the devil" as RW is the only one charged with the crimes, and there will not be a trial (just a plea and then a sentence), where anyone has to testify against him (which was the reason for that deal, a reduced sentence in exchange for testifying at the trial of the co-accused).
    It is the reporting that is precisely the issue. I have concerns about justice not being seen to be done. Not saying that I want the victims whose cases are currently before the courts to suffer. Just saying that "deciding how much can be reported" covers a lot of ground.

    The stickling point of the "deal with the devil" was in those videos, the existence of which was not revealed to investigators and crown prosecutors until after the deal was struck. Information was brought forward after the deal which could have meant the deal would not have happened. There is some debate to this day about the handling of that situation.

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  44. #123
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    It is curious that The Globe and Mail is not part of the 2 media outlets, arguing for access to exhibits.



    Williams was back in court on Thursday as lawyers for the CBC and the Ottawa Citizen argued for access to exhibits in the case and the lifting of restrictions imposed on journalists in the courtroom.

    The former commander at CFB Trenton arrived in court from the Napanee Detention Centre in shackles and handcuffs. About a dozen reporters and three or four members of the public were in court, significantly fewer people than the crowd that gathered during last week's appearance.

    Media lawyers are requesting the judge lift a current ban on the use of laptops and BlackBerrys in the courtroom.

    The media lawyers are also asking the judge, as well as prosecutors and Williams's lawyer, for clarification over what evidence can be released to the public and what can be published in the case once his sentencing hearing begins.

    snipped

    The CBC is also requesting to record the proceedings on video, particularly Williams's plea and the judge's sentencing, a move defence lawyers are expected to oppose.

    Crown, defence and media lawyers were meeting behind closed doors to discuss what should remain sealed for the protection of victims and what can be released to the public before the court went into recess.


    Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/...#ixzz12LvaWavb



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  46. #124
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    Williams makes unexpected court appearance- UPDATE



    A shackled and heavily guarded Col. Russell Williams sat quietly in Belleville's Ontario Superior Courtroom this morning as lawyers and Judge Robert Scott debate procedural issues behind closed doors.

    Williams, who arrived unexpectedly at the courthouse around 8:15 a.m..

    He was led into the courtroom at about 9:45 a.m. where he sat quietly staring at the floor.

    Williams was finally led out of the courtroom and back to the holding area after about an hour. The behind-closed-doors discussions apparently involve negotiations regarding what evidence will and will not be presented in the courtroom next week.

    http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleD...aspx?e=2799933

    BBM: Why was RW's appearance unexpected? Did he request to be there? They are "negotiating" which evidence will and will not be presented? HUH????

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  48. #125
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    What do you think was going through his head, while he sat there and waited? I wonder if he was feeling pleased at all the attention? Or worried about what was happening? Or what? KWIM?

    Salem

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