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  1. #31
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    Potential for abuse markers in charts

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulscape View Post
    Hello Curious,

    We would have to have more information about her early life to answer your question, for example, who did she live with prior to the exodus from Oz, (was there any support system outside the Father), how long was bio-Mom in the picture and how did she treat Zahra, what does bio-Mom's chart look like, when was the onset of Zahra's cancer, etc.

    What I can tell you is the abuse markers in the natal chart --- showing potential of abuse --- were there from birth. Perhaps they were not set off until Father's energies hooked up with Stepmother's and the frustration and probable resentment of dealing with a seriously sick child, combined with the (recently revealed) drug abuse issues involving Stepmother (and probably Father) escalated the whole situation out of whack.


    We just don't know........


    Thanks,
    Soulscape
    Soulscape, is it possible for you to explain/identify possible/potential abuse markers and what they look like to us?

    I know you always point things out to us in each individual chart, but could you be a bit more specific about what jumps off the page at you in certain charts in regards to this?

    Are there markers in charts that point to sexual abuse potential in an individuals charts? Thank you for all you do, I am paying attention and attempting to learn~ Katrina

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulscape View Post
    The chart below shows Zahra Baker's natal wheel, cast for sunrise in the city of her birth:






    While many astrologers decline to analyze a sunrise natal, I have found repeatedly such a wheel gives useful information from a forensic astrological perspective.

    I am studying this chart for abuse markers.

    While the MOON range could be anywhere from 13 to 25 Aquarius, the sunrise position gives 16 Aquarius. Unless Zahra was born very late at night, the MOON would conjunct URANUS. In a young child, MOON and her aspects often describe the "mother," how the child perceives her.

    MOON - URANUS gives unstable, erratic, unpredictable emotional responses and is a possible indicator of a violent relationship between child and mother. Zahra never knew when "Mother" would "snap" and hit her/ hurt her/ brutalize her. This judgment is strengthened by the Arabic Part of VIOLENCE being partile conjunct the sunrise MOON at 16 Aquarius.

    The MOON in this chart 16 Aquarius squares the SUN 22 Scorpio and SATURN 12 Taurus, forming the focal point of a fixed T-square. This shows a chronic conflictual situation, one that has been going on a long time. Note also SATURN is Retrograde, a condition often seen in the charts of individuals who suffer a lack of nurture (and sometimes presence) of the Father. While some Astrologers may argue SUN is not within an acceptable orb of opposition, it is surely opposed by sign (Scorpio - Taurus) and the MOON's square to both pulls them together. This combination -- SUN - MOON - URANUS - VIOLENCE - SATURN paints an ugly picture of attack from both parents (SUN - SATURN = Father, MOON = Mother). There is no love lost between the two parents, either. The squares and opposition show great conflict between the two, and now we know factually Zahra suffered horrifically as a result.

    Notice also NEPTUNE 01 Aquarius at the cusp of the sunrise 4th House partile square the Arabic Part of TORTURE 01 Scorpio. NEPTUNE disguises and hides the abuse that was going on in the home. It was worse than people suspected, but for all intents and purposes, invisible. The Stepmother's own natal NEPTUNE 24 Scorpio Rx conjunct Zahra's natal SUN 22 Scorpio, additionally enabled her to throw up a smokescreen that fooled most of the people most of the time.....

    The MARS/SATURN midpoint (cruelty, brutality) 17:29 Pisces opposes CERES 20 Virgo, suggesting cruelty/brutality at the hands of the Mother. (See chart above showing Stepmother's PLUTO (control, destruction) partile conjunct Zahra's CERES.)

    The MARS/PLUTO midpoint (rage/violence/murder) 00:50 Capricorn is partile conjunct Zahra's Secondary Progressed MIDHEAVEN at the time of the Reported Missing (based on the sunrise natal chart).

    It was shortly after the Reported Missing that the brutality, abuse, torture and probable death of Zahra Baker came before the Public Eye (MIDHEAVEN).





    Thanks,
    Soulscape
    Thank you for the chart. I am horrified by what this little survivor went through. I believe there is a special place in hell for monsters who would do this to a child with one leg, who cannot hear, and has survived cancer! God rest her poor soul.
    "This is not about Casey Anthony, but about what happened to Caylee Anthony between the photograph taken on June 15 and the one taken on December 11." LDB, my hero

    "I just have to ask you, how does one human being do this to another, let alone do it to their Mother?" Bill Shaeffer

  3. #33
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    I am not too sure if this has been analyzed or not, I haven't been able to keep track/pace with the flow of information, but has a chart been drawn from the 911 call and the fire in the backyard?

    "Elisa Baker originally told police that she last saw Zahra, who also suffered from bone cancer and had a prosthetic leg, sleeping in her bed around 2:30 a.m. Saturday morning, three hours before a brush fire in the backyard of the family home was reported. Hours after the fire Adam Baker called police to report Zahra missing."

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...30-504083.html

    And, I found the WS timeline:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5683559#post5683559"]NC Zahra Baker timeline and media links only - No Discussion - - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

    "saturday 9 october: 0500ish am there is a brush fire reported on a mulch pile behind
    the house. LE called by FD at 0520 because they found gas
    poured inside one of the vehicles and a ransom note. Adam's boss
    and daughter are named in the note. They are checked on and
    ok. LE/FD leave around 0640. Zahra is never checked on."

    TY, nursebeeme.

  4. #34
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    Narrowing Down the Time of Last Seen......

    Channel 9 has been able to confirm from police that the missing Hickory girl, Zahra Clare Baker, did make the move to Hickory with her family from Sawmills and have confirmed that she was alive as recently as mid September.Police are still working to narrow their timeline since the 10-year-old disabled girl went missing.Police said that the father, Adam Baker, has been 100 percent cooperative and has spent the majority of his time with investigators.Police also told Channel 9 that they have more search warrants but those court documents have been sealed by a judge.

    http://www.wsoctv.com/news/25389806/detail.html

  5. #35
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    Again, thanks so much, Soulscape.

    article in today's news:

    Cops: N.C. girl may have been alive in mid-Sept.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39673288...me_and_courts/

    "Police say the girl, who used hearing aids and a prosthetic leg because of bone cancer, has been killed."

  6. #36
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    The part I don't understand yet was why the parents even reported Zahra missing. The police had been out to their property in the early morning because of that mulch fire, but then the parents decided to report her missing in afternoon. Why? Nobody seemed to be aware of Zahra living there. The father wanting to report his daughter missing might mean he was truly concerned. Don't know enough yet.

  7. #37
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    Zahra Bakers Biological mother

    I've been researching this case and it seems that nobody has verified that Zahra's biological mother is alive, or has been informed.
    Seems everyone just *believes* Adam Bakers side of the story -- that she abandoned Zahra when she discovered Zahra had cancer.
    But I don't buy it. It think someone needs to find this woman verify that she is even alive. Even investigative reports state they *believe* her biological mother lives in Australia. But it seems nobody has actually talked to her.
    My question: Is there proof she abandoned Zahra? Or did she just disappear 10 years ago, and Adam decided to tell that story to his mother????
    I think there is reason to question the validity of anything this guy says. I just wish someone can verify this.
    I'd like to be wrong. But women who *abaondon* their children and are never heard from again are rare.
    Even the worst drug addicts I've known who left their children get bouts of conscience and curiosity.
    All I'm saying is why do we believe the guy with the *bloody wood chipper*
    We need sleuths to verify this woman is alive and has been informed.
    We need LE to verify this woman has been seen in the past 10 years.
    I'm nervous this may be a part of what went wrong.
    did Zahra want to establish contact with her bio mom.
    Did Zahra's curiosity become a liability?

  8. #38
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    I'm just so sick over this whole thing. I mean this case has just killed me. I can't believe this precious girl hasn't been found. Can you tell me if she will be found? Will there be closure in this case? Thanks you all so much for ALL you do. You really help us all out here who can't see "the light at the end of the tunnel." :*(

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frigga View Post
    Soulscape, is it possible for you to explain/identify possible/potential abuse markers and what they look like to us?

    I know you always point things out to us in each individual chart, but could you be a bit more specific about what jumps off the page at you in certain charts in regards to this?

    Are there markers in charts that point to sexual abuse potential in an individuals charts? Thank you for all you do, I am paying attention and attempting to learn~ Katrina

    Hello Frigga,

    First, we need to remind everyone that any and all aspects in a natal chart have positive as well as negative manifestations and that, in general, people learn to work with their energies with varying degrees of success.

    The majority of the charts we work with here on the Forensic Astrology Forum, however, belong to either victims or perpetrators. In such charts, unfortunately, the energy patterns tend to manifest more in the negative direction.

    I can't stress enough, you need to have a certain amount of knowledge of the person's background and life experiences up to the point of the crime, the more knowledge, the better, in order to make sense of the charts. Fortunately, with the excellent sleuthing done here on Websleuths, we are often able to learn much about the key players in the cases we study, which helps us make reasonable judgments as we read the charts.

    Abuse and/or violence can be mental, emotional, verbal, psychological, physical and/or sexual. A chart containing such markers could be that of a victim or perpetrator or both --- there is often no clear way to tell other than by studying the facts of the case.

    We can see by looking at Stepmother's chart clear and copious evidence of abuse/violence and we know by the facts she is a perpetrator. Could she have also been a victim of such as well? Absolutely --- but at this point we do not have the nitty-gritty background information on her that could help answer that question.

    The Father's chart, which I have not yet posted nor commented upon, contains red flags as well. Was he involved? I believe so, and an upcoming look and analysis will give my reasons.

    With Zahra, we know she was a victim. Some of the obvious markers were the afflictions amongst SUN-MOON-URANUS-SATURN. Additionally, her SUN is in a violent sign (Scorpio), which can be a marker as well.

    Note well: this does not mean that anyone with SUN - MOON - ASCENDANT in a violent sign (Aries, Scorpio, Capricorn) will perpetrate and/or suffer violence!! As I've stated repeatedly, we cannot read charts blindly and we cannot make assessments based on a couple of chart factors. I do not encourage anyone to start pulling out the natal charts of everyone & their brother looking for these markers unless (a) they know what they're doing, and (b) have enough knowledge of the life circumstances of the chart owner to make sensible deductions!

    In general, I look for afflictions to SUN, MOON, ASCENDANT (when I have a true birth time), particularly from MARS, SATURN and PLUTO. When VENUS is involved in the pattern, there is often a sexual component (e.g., a rape victim or a rapist). VENUS - URANUS combined with NEPTUNE afflictions often are seen in charts of pedophiles. The more afflicted the SUN and/or MOON, the more likely the chart owner has a problem. A sorely afflicted MERCURY (the thinking process) is sometimes involved.

    Some red flags for abuse/violence include:

    SUN - MARS aspects (any, even the "soft" aspects)
    MARS and/or PLUTO and/or SATURN in harsh aspect to MOON
    MARS in harsh aspect to PLUTO and/or SATURN
    SUN-MOON afflictions
    SUN and/or MOON and/or ASCENDANT (in timed charts) in violent signs
    SUN and/or MOON and/or ASCENDANT (in timed charts) conjunct malefic Fixed Stars
    Afflictions to SUN - MOON - ASCENDANT (in timed charts) from Asteroid TORO (brutality)
    Certain midpoint structures including but not limited to MARS/SATURN, MARS/PLUTO, MARS/NEPTUNE, MARS/URANUS, SATURN/PLUTO

    Working with charts of victims and perpetrators over a period of time allows you to see patterns which tend to play out in some shape or form, over & over. While there are always exceptions, in general, you will see many and/or serious afflictions in such charts.

    Hope this helps,

    Thanks,
    Soulscape

  10. #40
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    Soulscape,

    Thank you, your explanation is very helpful and I will keep in mind all that you said.

    Everything you said makes sense and I will probably read it over and over again. I understand about the context and energies being positive or negative/ victim or perpetrator- sometimes both. I very much appreciate you taking the time to respond and in such great detail, it helps so much to have a better understanding.

    Thanks for the charts for Zahra, I really wish life could have turned out differently for her... that she could have 'changed her stars'. I have to believe there is a reason for everything, just sometimes it seems to allude me. I hope she is in the loving arms of God, maybe going over the why of it all... maybe just enjoying some peace and joy.

    Thanks again!


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoxyBlues View Post
    I've been researching this case and it seems that nobody has verified that Zahra's biological mother is alive, or has been informed.
    Seems everyone just *believes* Adam Bakers side of the story -- that she abandoned Zahra when she discovered Zahra had cancer.
    But I don't buy it. It think someone needs to find this woman verify that she is even alive. Even investigative reports state they *believe* her biological mother lives in Australia. But it seems nobody has actually talked to her.
    My question: Is there proof she abandoned Zahra? Or did she just disappear 10 years ago, and Adam decided to tell that story to his mother????
    I think there is reason to question the validity of anything this guy says. I just wish someone can verify this.
    I'd like to be wrong. But women who *abaondon* their children and are never heard from again are rare.
    Even the worst drug addicts I've known who left their children get bouts of conscience and curiosity.
    All I'm saying is why do we believe the guy with the *bloody wood chipper*
    We need sleuths to verify this woman is alive and has been informed.
    We need LE to verify this woman has been seen in the past 10 years.
    I'm nervous this may be a part of what went wrong.
    did Zahra want to establish contact with her bio mom.
    Did Zahra's curiosity become a liability?
    Welcome RoxyBlues. What good questions you raise.

    Who knows, maybe Zahra's bio Mom wanted to keep her baby and get child support. Then, she just disappearred one day. We don't know what we're dealing with yet. What kind of father did Zahra have? One that raised her and protected and loved her? One that used her as an opportunity taking her away from people who loved her?

    It'd be something if her bio Mom came forward now. Zahra must've longed to know her.

    I'm afraid of what Soulscape may see to confirm this feeling I have about Zahra's father, but will hang on every word the stars can tell us that would explain why this happened to Zahra. What I have heard of the treatment of Zahra has been bad enough from the SM, let alone if Dad supported this abusive treatment.

    I hope they find her. Is there anyway to know that at this point?

  12. #42
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    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/nat...-1225939356137

    North Carolina police officer Clyde Deal told the Herald Sun he had spoken with the mother and her sister in Australia.



    "Like any parent, she was extremely upset," he said.

    Captain Deal said Zahra's mother and father, Adam Baker, separated when Zahra was a baby, but she maintained contact with her daughter over the years.
    JMO

  13. #43
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    SoulScape~

    I understand we don't have the birth times and such, and readings are somewhat limited, but is there any way this child was sexually abused?

    Aside from just being mental, I'm wondering what set this woman off in such a rage, and how the father just stood around and allowed this treatment of his daughter.

    Weither real or imagined, is there a sexual componenet to this chart?

  14. #44
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    Help with Timeline....

    This video was posted to WSOC's website on 10/11. It is a raw interview that they did with AB. It appears to be on the same day he went on GMA b/c he has the same shirt on. He has an interesting slip up. Take a look or read below:

    http://www.wsoctv.com/video/25403061/index.html

    AB: I know there was a fire in the yard…and we went back to bed..and I got up and went to work. We didn’t get to bed till 7:30 that morning . So I had to go get some kind of sleep. Um, normally I’ll go to work and her mum will look after Zahra. I came back to do some work in the yard with one of our pieces of equipment and her mum came running out telling me she was missing. That’s pretty much…the whole 100%.... of what I completely know… so far. Everything else is just little bits and pieces coming.

    Reporter: When was the last time you personally saw your daughter?

    AB: Well I….100%...genuinely saw my daughter out of bed would have been Tuesday.

    Reporter: TUESDAY

    (AB nods head yes.)
    AB: And normally I come in late and she’s in bed so I’ll open the door and check on her. Um, I think she was there Friday night. I opened the door. It looked like she was in the bed. She also had a stomach virus lately. So when she’s sick I don’t want to disturb her at all after everything she’s been through.

    Reporter: Now do you mean Tuesday or Thursday?

    AB: Pauses and has to think about it. I saw her Thursday….sorry I’ve had very, very little sleep.

    **Tuesday, would have been 10/05. Could this have been a slip up on his part? Do the charts show anything? Bolded comments are what I find interesting.**

  15. #45
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    An article about the 2009 neighbors of the Bakers that think Zahra might've lived in a crawl space over the closet in a tiny attic area.

    http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2...tic-ar-458767/

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