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  1. #1
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    Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #3

    Please continue here.

    Also please remember there are two schools of thought regarding this incident. Don't bicker. Allow each his/her own opinion. State your opinion, theory, interpretation of the facts and move on. Let others do the same.

    Thank you,

    Salem

    Thread 2

    Thread 1
    Last edited by OkieGranny; 04-20-2015 at 05:49 PM. Reason: fixed broken links

  2. #2
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    Thank you Salem

    I was just thinking it's interesting that she asked the witness to "call authorities and possibly an ambulance" which makes sense - hypothetically speaking she would have been very distraught and naturally holding out hope her husband was still alive. Why is it that very early on she stated she didn't think he was alive -I mean if her story is accurate from start to finish and then she asks this witness to call for help saying there may be need for an ambulance wouldn't poor David's family be still holding out some hope he may have survived and is being held somewhere?

  3. #3
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    In answer to I Wanna Know:

    How do you know they weren't snapping their photos as the pirates were approaching?Is it inconceivable that the Hartley's got there, took their photos and then the pirates discovered them? I do not believe that to be impossible, nor disproven.
    Because that's NOT the sequence that Tiffany described:

    "TIFFANY HARTLEY, WIDOWED: Well, after we had taken the pictures at the church, we were on our way out when we saw a boat outside of this little brush area that was underwater.

    When we were coming out, we saw them. They just waved at us, like we were -- you know, friendly, very friendly wave. We were on our way -- so we just continued, took a few more pictures, continued out. And we were, I don`t know, maybe halfway to the U.S. I can`t really give you a great idea of where exactly.

    But we saw three boats coming towards us, and as soon as they started coming towards us, we just kind of started leaving. We passed them, and then they started chasing us. And once they started chasing us, they started shooting..."

    Source: http://www.cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/TR...7/ijvm.01.html

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waddles View Post
    Thank you Salem

    I was just thinking it's interesting that she asked the witness to "call authorities and possibly an ambulance" which makes sense - hypothetically speaking she would have been very distraught and naturally holding out hope her husband was still alive. Why is it that very early on she stated she didn't think he was alive -I mean if her story is accurate from start to finish and then she asks this witness to call for help saying there may be need for an ambulance wouldn't poor David's family be still holding out some hope he may have survived and is being held somewhere?
    Maybe that is exactly what she wants them to do - hope that he may still be alive. Tho that doesn't match with David having been shot in the head...Just my 2 cents, but when I read your post it occurred to to me that maybe she wanted to plant a seed of doubt...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kateyes View Post
    Maybe that is exactly what she wants them to do - hope that he may still be alive. Tho that doesn't match with David having been shot in the head...Just my 2 cents, but when I read your post it occurred to to me that maybe she wanted to plant a seed of doubt...
    That makes sense, Kateyes, exept that since the 911 call, she always talks about him as if he's dead. She already has had one memorial for him, and apparently planning another.

    I think if she wanted there to be doubt, she would not keep asking only that his body be returned. She would be looking to find him alive.

    She also told the witness right away about all the blood and brain matter. I don't think anyone would be execting someone to survive that, especially if they were not able to get help for him right away.
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  6. #6
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    Remember the recent article where she describes the expression on the faces of the pirates?

    I just came across this article from October 11, 2010:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...n6946795.shtml

    She told "Early Show" co-anchor Harry Smith, "I couldn't tell you. I don't remember, really, being able to describe or even kind of get an idea of what these guys looked like. Possibly, maybe it would come back to me, but I was more focused on the gun and hoping, you know, they wouldn't shoot me."
    I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it left.


  7. #7
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    thank you Kateyes and Tuffy

    also it occurred to me (pardon my ignorance!) maybe would an ambulance be needed anyway in these circumstances to remove the body or is that solely for the coroner? perhaps simply she wasn't sure which took care of it, again hypothetically

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waddles View Post
    thank you Kateyes and Tuffy

    also it occurred to me maybe would an ambulance be needed anyway in these circumstances to remove the body or is that solely for the coroner? perhaps simply she wasn't sure which took care of it, again hypothetically
    Yeah, I could see calling for an ambulance if someone dropped dead right in front of you. Even if you were pretty sure that there was no amount of first aid that would help them.

    Maybe it was the odd wording from the witness, it just struck me as weird to say "please call the authorities and possibly an ambulance." I would imagine it would be much more natural to just say, "My husband has just been shot, send help!" or "call 911, or call the police, etc."
    I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it left.


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waddles View Post
    Thank you Salem

    I was just thinking it's interesting that she asked the witness to "call authorities and possibly an ambulance" which makes sense - hypothetically speaking she would have been very distraught and naturally holding out hope her husband was still alive. Why is it that very early on she stated she didn't think he was alive -I mean if her story is accurate from start to finish and then she asks this witness to call for help saying there may be need for an ambulance wouldn't poor David's family be still holding out some hope he may have survived and is being held somewhere?
    bbm
    yes it does
    Personally, I would have screamed "Call 911"
    ----------------------------------------------------



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    "There are three kinds of intelligence: one kind understands things for itself, the other appreciates what others can understand, the third understands neither for itself nor through others. This first is excellent, the second good, and the third useless.

    --Niccolo Machiavelli"

  10. #10
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    Kimberlyd125 is offline Softball is for everyone. Fast pitch is for athletes.
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    I was going through a few old articles and I don't think I saw this one. It may have been discussed here, I have not read every post.

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmem...ys_story_a.php

    Meanwhile, appearing on Fox and Friends this morning, Perry put part of the responsibility for this incident on the federal government's shoulders.

    "This is a tragedy," Perry said. "It is a result of many years of disregard for the people along that border, and the security of the border. We've been telling this administration, and administrations before, for years, that there is not enough support, there's not enough boots on the ground, there's not enough technology in place -- aviation assets -- to protect the citizens of the United States -- and Mexico for that matter. And now we're beginning to see concrete evidence of that failure to secure the border, when American citizens, innocent American citizen, who was down there strictly on a historical trip to take a picture of the old church at Guerrero, is murdered on Lake Falcon."

    Perry had harsh words for reports that the Mexican government had raised doubt about Tiffany Hartley's story.

    "That's not what I heard from [Mexico's] acting foreign secretary last night," Perry said. "And I think it's reprehensible. Anyone who says anything other than this was pirates or just criminal element out on that lake that killed an innocent American -- there is nothing there. We've asked all the right questions. Our sheriff has asked the right questions. Anyone who is trying to deflect off of what this actually is aught to be ashamed of themselves."
    ____
    So the governor of Texas who has personally talked to officials from Mex and America believes TH.
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  11. #11
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    Kimberlyd125 is offline Softball is for everyone. Fast pitch is for athletes.
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    I found the video of the interview I caught a second of this morning.


    http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...ewsVideoArea.0

    Missing Jet Skier's Family Speak Out


    The father and sister of missing jet skier David Hartley spoke to Maggie Rodriguez about their loss and their plans for the future.
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  12. #12
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    I would really like to see politics left out of this.....the violence in Mexico itself is relevant....but lets not forget this was two US citizens crossing into Mexico illegally...across well-marked and defined boundary lines, and with full knowledge that was exactly what they were doing.

    If this were two illegal Mexicans crossing into US territory...and killed by some voluntary border patrols, i wonder if the outcry would be as loud.

    While there is no evidence to support guilt or innocence in this matter (yet), most would have to admit there are oddities to this story.

  13. #13

    Observation

    To put all into perspective, Tiffany is calling herself a "Widow" . That seems odd. It seems to me that she is very eager to get on with her new life as an advocate of some sort and travel the country. Be mindful that this is fine, however everything that is known as fact is "hearsay". There is no body, no witnesses of any kind, However poor Tiffany can't stand to be out of the spotlight touting some cause. I remember Mark klass and even mark Lunsford staying low keyed until the bodies of their children were discovered. They did not jump on being advocates until that day, which they have every right to do. However Tiffany started her cause the second day this incident was reported. Just my observation.
    Last edited by Salem; 10-26-2010 at 10:50 PM. Reason: removed name calling and bashing

  14. #14
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    Pirates usually attack as a means of robbery. 2 people on jet skis with no viewable jewlery seems like an odd choice when you don't at least take their jet skis

    mistaken identity? the 2 people are CLEARLY caucasian

    to get their jollies out of shooting during a high speed chase? why not kill them both? why "discuss" it in front of tiffany and then shrug shoulders and drive away?

    and this is not in the same line of questioning, but I keep hearing that the boat chased her to the US side..why if they already decided to let her go? That part still confuses me....and she doesn't say they were shooting at her at this point so why the chase?

    NOTE FROM SALEM: We do not call other posters out for their opinions or theories. If you have questions, ask them, but don't put other posters on the defensive.
    Last edited by Salem; 10-26-2010 at 10:52 PM. Reason: removed question to other posters

  15. #15
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    and most importantly>>>>>

    why would "pirates" take a dead body with them????

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