1077 users online (271 members and 806 guests)  


The Killing Season - Websleuths

Websleuths News


Page 1 of 38 1 2 3 11 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 556
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chicago burbs
    Posts
    74,360

    NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #18

    Last edited by KateB; 04-05-2015 at 12:54 AM. Reason: add info.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

    You can now purchase Mr. Harrod's Disappeared episode through Amazon, iTunes or YouTube.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    6,067
    Thanks Cubby!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Portland Oregon
    Posts
    149

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by shefner View Post
    Thanks Cubby!
    ditto.....

  4. #4
    You know it is obvious that there has been tons of work by people on this case. With respect to Steven's landlord and his past due rent. In Calfornia Steven would have not got much past thirty days past due or he would have been immediately given a "pay or quit notice," and if he didn't pay evictions proceedings would immediately start. Yes the LL might have been calling him but why after three months.

    The timeline, at least the one that i have access to, doesn't give the exact time. So I didn't know that most of his driving was at night.

    I did know that Steven was let go from matchbin, but I didn't know he was job hopping.

    Kelly

  5. #5
    Again I think that with the following comment that the landlord was being more easy then in other areas, that is why I made the comment that Steven may have not be sweating the rent.

    •"[SK] was a few months behind on rent but he was working with [my husband] on a plan to catch it up." (Source: landlady)


    Kelly

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    16,111
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly_Robinson View Post
    Again I think that with the following comment that the landlord was being more easy then in other areas, that is why I made the comment that Steven may have not be sweating the rent.

    •"[SK] was a few months behind on rent but he was working with [my husband] on a plan to catch it up." (Source: landlady)


    Kelly
    One of the things that we've noted in the past is that there's some inconsistency in the way the landlady (who was posting here for a while, if I recall correctly) presented the situation and the way her husband appeared to be hassling Steven. Not serious discrepancies, probably just disagreement about how to handle the situation -- but still interesting.

    Yes, the rental arrangements seem to have been pretty informal.
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

  7. #7
    The business that I work in, we do background checks on people for employment purposes and I suppose I could do that on Mr. Koecher. Some of the background checks that we do will tell us if a person has stayed in a motel or hotel in the past 90 days. That's how concise the software we use can be.

    Obviously if Mr. Koecher is living under an assumed name, then I am not sure how much it would help, but it might be worth considering.

    Kelly

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,581
    Brought from Thread #17:

    Quote Originally Posted by shefner
    This breach of confidentiality (calling the parents concerning private financial info) by the landlord was certainly bothersome to Steven. It was also against the law.
    They were listed as the "emergency contact" on the rental form. I agree, it was a breach of confidentiality -- and fits in with the landlord's harassment of Steven.

    LL has apparently obtained a civil judgment against Z for nonpayment of rent (and stealing small appliances); but didn't file against SK. I could never figure out why.

    Quote Originally Posted by shefner
    Does anyone know if Steven's parents or other relatives have any instinctive theories? Cases like this will drive you crazy.
    Understandably, scenarios that involve issues contrary to their family values or religious beliefs, haven't been especially welcomed. I don't think any family wants to entertain ideas like suicide, alternative lifestyles, purposely leaving his family or knowingly committing a crime.

    I've sensed, from the first, that they see him as an innocent who was unknowingly involved with something shady.

    His brother wrote "...we know a thousand different things that didn't happen to Steven but we still don't know the one thing that did happen" on the For Steven website, Information Page.

    Wish we knew what the thousand are. Outside of a UFO landing outside of the security video's camera range and hauling him off, there's not much I can rule out.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,581
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly_Robinson View Post
    Again I think that with the following comment that the landlord was being more easy then in other areas, that is why I made the comment that Steven may have not be sweating the rent.

    "[SK] was a few months behind on rent but he was working with [my husband] on a plan to catch it up." (Source: landlady)

    Kelly
    LL knew Steven's parents had given him money to help pay the rent.
    Steven could have given the LL that money, but did not.
    LL continued to call daily, sometimes twice or three times.

    I don't call that "easy". I don't think Mrs LL knew how many times Mr LL was calling Steven.

    There were apparently some financial issues. Although LL was responsible to pay the utility bills, they did not, because the renters hadn't paid them. The utilities were threatened with shut-off.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,581
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly_Robinson View Post
    You know it is obvious that there has been tons of work by people on this case. With respect to Steven's landlord and his past due rent. In Calfornia Steven would have not got much past thirty days past due or he would have been immediately given a "pay or quit notice," and if he didn't pay evictions proceedings would immediately start. Yes the LL might have been calling him but why after three months.
    Obviously, the LL had been trying to collect; we have one week's worth of phone records, that show his calls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly_Robinson View Post

    The timeline, at least the one that i have access to, doesn't give the exact time. So I didn't know that most of his driving was at night.
    It would have been dark when he left the temple, right?
    He arrived in Ruby Valley, at 11am the next morning (543 miles from St George).
    How could most of the driving *not* be during darkness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly_Robinson View Post
    I did know that Steven was let go from matchbin, but I didn't know he was job hopping.

    Kelly
    His known job history is on the timeline.
    We may have missed minor fill-in jobs.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    Posts
    136
    Quoting Kelly from previous thread:

    One other thing that slipped my mind when you made the comment that you thought that Steven's driving around could be a symptom of mania.

    That would actually be a good thing if that was true. When people are manic, they generally feel on top of the world to the point of being delusional. Its not the mania that brings about the suicide it's when they crash and get depressed. A person can stay manic for days or even weeks.
    Maybe Steven did feel on top of the world. He felt good enough to travel 500 miles to visit a woman who he hadn't confirmed was even home, perhaps hoping to rekindle a relationship with her. What type of rational person leaves their home in St. George at 2:15am for a 500 mile road trip, to visit a person who doesn't even live at the location he is traveling to? And assume that she will want to talk to him, renew a relationship, whatever? That to me is delusional. And if a person can stay manic for days or weeks, then you agree that by December 13th-14th (4 days later), Steven could have reached a deep depression?

    Mania is easy to tell. Was Steven up all hours of the night?
    Was he delusional or really euphoric? In other words did he feel like he could take on the world or think he was going to work for a company or start a company that would make him a million dollars in a short period of time?
    Yes. We know of at least one occasion that he was up all night (and all day) - driving to Ruby Valley. Because of his lack of close relationships (suggesting depression) we can't confirm much about Steven's last days. His neighbor did report seeing him leave the house on one occasion at 10:30pm...perhaps a sign of sleeplessness/mania (depression), but no one is sure if Steven returned home shortly after this sighting, perhaps after the neighbor had retired to bed.

    Was he making foolish and ruinous decisions and blowing every last dime he had in wild investments? Did he appear to be presenting a personality that he thought was larger then life? Special communication with God, angels, saints?
    He was blowing every last dime on gasoline....to make trips that didn't make sense! Also (Laytonian - correct me if I have the wording off) Steven told a friend that he had broken up with a long term girlfriend because "God had told him she wasn't right for him." This doesn't raise too many flags with people familiar with Steven's faith. From what I understand, Mormons enjoy a close, personal relationship with God that isn't typical of other religions - again, correct me if I'm wrong. But it could fit your definition of "special communication with God."

    Manic depression or "bipolar disorder" as it is now called is characterized with high highs, and low lows.

    People with mania can stay up for days on end, work tons of hours without tiring, think they have everything figured out, can be paranoid and delusional thinking the mafia is chasing them and they can be violent too. They can have auditory hallucinations.
    Perhaps the reason Steven wasn't looking for work (had unsent job applications in his room) was because he thought he had everything figured out. Someone looking in at Steven's life from the outside, however, would take a very different perspective.

    Suicidal ideation is generally not characteristic during the manic phase. Thoughts of suicide come about when the person comes down and becomes depressed.

    Again I want to emphasize this is not a hard and fast rule as anything is possible. Mania is a symptom of an underlying mental illness and people who are manic definately need help because when they come down they will get very depressed.

    Kelly
    And I believe that Steven "came down."

    Thanks for your perspective. I have allegiance to almost every theory discussed here and the jury is still out on suicide. You will read time and again from Laytonian that we are trying to apply logic to the illogical - to me, Steven's inability to behave in ways that will remedy his financial troubles or address his lack of employment point to mental illness. I don't claim to be a psychologist, but many of us here have first hand (and second hand) experience with mental illness. It's safe to say we know - as much as you do - what we're talking about.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    4,581
    Quote Originally Posted by seekingsusan View Post
    He was blowing every last dime on gasoline....to make trips that didn't make sense! Also (Laytonian - correct me if I have the wording off) Steven told a friend that he had broken up with a long term girlfriend because "God had told him she wasn't right for him." This doesn't raise too many flags with people familiar with Steven's faith. From what I understand, Mormons enjoy a close, personal relationship with God that isn't typical of other religions - again, correct me if I'm wrong. But it could fit your definition of "special communication with God."
    One of the most informative posts we've had about Steven, came from his good friend gsmith. I'll quote a bit, but it's good to read the entire post (click here).
    He was looking for the perfect girl for him. I think his regret was that he passed up on a relationship because she wasn't the prettiest girl. Later he realized it was a mistake to have not pursued her more. I don't know which girl he was referring to though.

    He broke up with a gal around the end of 2008 which seemed perfect for him. He told me she had everything he wanted. For some reason he thought it just wasn't right. God was telling him it hasn't right. I encouraged him to just continue the relationship and see what happened. However he decided to end it anyway. His biggest sadness came from that event and the fact he felt he was being left behind. Most of his friends had gotten married and he was single approaching 30.

    I may be off-base, but I believe the second girl is AN. The time fits, and it seems he had a need to talk to her a year later. Yes, I believe that was a manic action -- because he knew they'd met in SLC. He should have known she was living in SLC (and maybe he first dropped in there?). I've seen her in person, and she's lovely as well as talented. She's a musician, as Steven aspired to be.

    He disappeared, not long after his 30th birthday. Shortly after his brother's child had been born. Everyone else in the family was "settled in". It's almost like he was trying to quickly make up for lost time.

    gsmith has insights into Steven, that are especially valuable. As a friend, he was able to describe Steven in a way we could relate to, and in loving ways that even Steven's family was unable to express.

    You can read ALL of gsmith's WS posts by CLICKING HERE. Start at the bottom (the first post) and work up.
    Last edited by KateB; 04-26-2015 at 12:54 PM. Reason: repair url tag.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    345
    Quote Originally Posted by seekingsusan View Post
    Quoting Kelly from previous thread:



    Maybe Steven did feel on top of the world. He felt good enough to travel 500 miles to visit a woman who he hadn't confirmed was even home, perhaps hoping to rekindle a relationship with her. What type of rational person leaves their home in St. George at 2:15am for a 500 mile road trip, to visit a person who doesn't even live at the location he is traveling to? And assume that she will want to talk to him, renew a relationship, whatever? That to me is delusional. And if a person can stay manic for days or weeks, then you agree that by December 13th-14th (4 days later), Steven could have reached a deep depression?



    Yes. We know of at least one occasion that he was up all night (and all day) - driving to Ruby Valley. Because of his lack of close relationships (suggesting depression) we can't confirm much about Steven's last days. His neighbor did report seeing him leave the house on one occasion at 10:30pm...perhaps a sign of sleeplessness/mania (depression), but no one is sure if Steven returned home shortly after this sighting, perhaps after the neighbor had retired to bed.



    He was blowing every last dime on gasoline....to make trips that didn't make sense! Also (Laytonian - correct me if I have the wording off) Steven told a friend that he had broken up with a long term girlfriend because "God had told him she wasn't right for him." This doesn't raise too many flags with people familiar with Steven's faith. From what I understand, Mormons enjoy a close, personal relationship with God that isn't typical of other religions - again, correct me if I'm wrong. But it could fit your definition of "special communication with God."



    Perhaps the reason Steven wasn't looking for work (had unsent job applications in his room) was because he thought he had everything figured out. Someone looking in at Steven's life from the outside, however, would take a very different perspective.



    And I believe that Steven "came down."

    Thanks for your perspective. I have allegiance to almost every theory discussed here and the jury is still out on suicide. You will read time and again from Laytonian that we are trying to apply logic to the illogical - to me, Steven's inability to behave in ways that will remedy his financial troubles or address his lack of employment point to mental illness. I don't claim to be a psychologist, but many of us here have first hand (and second hand) experience with mental illness. It's safe to say we know - as much as you do - what we're talking about.


    Everyone has great thoughts, and ideas. And many of us assume, because SK did the things he did, we have a possible answer.

    My husband and I when we were younger, would go for a coke, or treat at 11-1130p.m. Also we diowned a janitorial business, and checked the work late at night-sometimes 1AM. i always wondered what neighbors thought. We are not manic etc.

    We can assume sk was on his last dime, but do not know that for sure. maybe a source of money was coming from someone.


    I have friends, former son-in-law, that do not seem to worry alot about finding a job. They know if they really NEED the money-they can get it from family, church etc.


    I have gotten in a car, just drove around to think, get ideas, clear my mind.

    I am just saying we all do things that others think are "weird", or its a sign something is wrong. We can read what we want into any situation.

    Yes, I have a sister who is bi-polar. Nobody would really know. Other than those CLOSE to her. But if people looked at my life, doing things I did, they could read alot of diagnosis on me.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    Posts
    136
    Quote Originally Posted by sbakker View Post
    Everyone has great thoughts, and ideas. And many of us assume, because SK did the things he did, we have a possible answer.

    My husband and I when we were younger, would go for a coke, or treat at 11-1130p.m. Also we diowned a janitorial business, and checked the work late at night-sometimes 1AM. i always wondered what neighbors thought. We are not manic etc.

    We can assume sk was on his last dime, but do not know that for sure. maybe a source of money was coming from someone.


    I have friends, former son-in-law, that do not seem to worry alot about finding a job. They know if they really NEED the money-they can get it from family, church etc.


    I have gotten in a car, just drove around to think, get ideas, clear my mind.

    I am just saying we all do things that others think are "weird", or its a sign something is wrong. We can read what we want into any situation.

    Yes, I have a sister who is bi-polar. Nobody would really know. Other than those CLOSE to her. But if people looked at my life, doing things I did, they could read alot of diagnosis on me.
    Just to be clear, I'm not assuming anything. I don't claim my ideas are any better or any more accurate than anyone else's ideas. Surely you can see that going out for a snack at 11pm is a little different than driving 500 miles to visit a woman who he hadn't bothered to pick up the phone and call first. And taking a drive to clear one's mind is different than taking a 1100 mile road trip.

    We don't know everything about Steven's financial situation, but from what we do know (behind on rent, no job, getting money from parents) times were tough. And we have a pretty good idea that Steven's pride might have gotten in the way of his asking for help (he was angry when his parents told him the LL had contacted them about back rent, he didn't cash grandma's check or use money deposited for rent from his mom, and we've talked about him getting help from the church, but he never did.)

    I'm not calling Steven's behavior weird, but from what we know, it may have been unusual, even for Steven. And, like I said before, I'm not qualified to diagnose him. I'm just here looking for answers and sharing ideas like everyone else.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    345
    We all come here, and put our heads together, and have wonderful ideas and theories, of what happened to sk, and why he did the things he did.

    It is not unusual for my husband and I, take rides at 10-11pm, to go get treats or a drink. My kids arer just like us. They are grown and have families. We would take naps in the late afternoon.

    And him looking for a job, he knew there were back up people to help if he needed money. family, maybe friends. I had a son-in-aw (former) who just mosied around looking for a job. He had a college degree, was very shy, not real confident. many thought he was lazy-thats how some perceived him, that did not know him.

    As I have said before, I have a sis who is bi-polar. She keeps pretty much to her self. Looking at my life, and hers, people may think we were the ones with mental illness. We can read anything into anything we want, especially if we do not know all the circumstances.
    We owned a janitorial business, and would check buildings at midnight, or after.

    Often when I was young, i would drive my car for miles, just because it was relaxing, I enjoyed it, did it impromptu.
    Who knows if he was blowing his last dime on gas? We do not know if he was making money on the side somewhere.

Page 1 of 38 1 2 3 11 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #11
    By Salem in forum 2000's Missing
    Replies: 583
    Last Post: 05-02-2010, 11:35 PM
  2. NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #10
    By hoppyfrog in forum 2000's Missing
    Replies: 670
    Last Post: 04-17-2010, 12:11 AM
  3. NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 6
    By hoppyfrog in forum 2000's Missing
    Replies: 750
    Last Post: 02-24-2010, 05:51 PM
  4. NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 5
    By believe09 in forum 2000's Missing
    Replies: 539
    Last Post: 02-12-2010, 08:33 PM
  5. NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 4
    By hoppyfrog in forum 2000's Missing
    Replies: 630
    Last Post: 02-02-2010, 08:14 PM

Tags for this Thread