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  1. #1
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    Thumbs down 4-Year-Old Can Be Sued, Judge Rules in Bike Case

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/29/ny...oung.html?_r=1


    Citing cases dating back as far as 1928, a judge has ruled that a young girl accused of running down an elderly woman while racing a bicycle with training wheels on a Manhattan sidewalk two years ago can be sued for negligence.

    The ruling by the judge, Justice Paul Wooten of State Supreme Court in Manhattan, did not find that the girl was liable, but merely permitted a lawsuit brought against her, another boy and their parents to move forward.



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  2. #2
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    Ridiculous.
    I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by southcitymom View Post
    Ridiculous.
    I don't know that this is ridiculous. An 87 yr old woman was killed by this child. IMO her parents should be held responsible, which is what will ultimately happen.

  4. #4
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    The story says she died three months later of unrelated causes so this girl didn't kill her. I agree, ridiculous.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trino View Post
    I don't know that this is ridiculous. An 87 yr old woman was killed by this child. IMO her parents should be held responsible, which is what will ultimately happen.
    Had it happened that way I still dont see how they could hold a child of 4 responsible . Or the childs parent. Children are reckless and learn by making mistakes it is biological. The 87 year old had a duty to protect herself from injury and failed to do so.. If we are going to be making insane judgements lets go all the way and make a point of every crazy angle. I wonder if it is too late for them to put the kid up for adoption?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by reportertype View Post
    The story says she died three months later of unrelated causes so this girl didn't kill her. I agree, ridiculous.
    A person with a broken hip holds on for a while. They usually don't immediately die but develop other problems, which is most likely what happened here. The 87 yr old woman was merely walking down a sidewalk.

    It appears that the two children were racing their bikes with the mothers following. Apparently, there was an intersecting sidewalk, and the child went into the woman who was on the sidewalk. Maybe the mothers were talking and not paying attention to what the kids were doing.

    The child made a terrible mistake, of course, but still the mothers should have been supervising. If your child accidentally hits someone in a store, etc., aren't you going to apologize or, at least, tell you child to be more careful?
    Last edited by Trino; 10-30-2010 at 01:27 AM.

  7. #7
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    IMO it's not totally out of line. Sure, the kid herself can't be held responsible and couldn't be expected to know what might happen if she ran into an elderly person with her bike, but the parent can be. I would like to know more about the exact circumstances before deciding what I think. Did the woman have time to get out of the way? Could she not see the children for some reason until it was too late? She may not have been able to move very fast, or she may have thought the child would swerve to miss her. If the parent was not watching the child very well, I don't know. I'm not around kids a lot, so I'm not sure how well a 4 YO could absorb pre-instructions like "when you're on your bike, don't run into people" and "be careful and look where you're going." If the kid's not old enough to watch out for herself and others, maybe it's best she not ride bikes until she's older, or that she do so in a more controlled environment, like a backyard or some other sheltered area. She could run out into the street and get run over.
    If there is anything worse than the sandwiches, it is the sausages which sit next to them. Joyless tubes, full of gristle, floating in a sea of something hot and sad, stuck with a plastic pin in the shape of a chef’s hat: A memorial, one feels, for some chef who hated the world, and died, forgotten and alone among his cats on a back stair in Stepney. – Douglas Adams

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuzzieCat View Post
    IMO it's not totally out of line. Sure, the kid herself can't be held responsible and couldn't be expected to know what might happen if she ran into an elderly person with her bike, but the parent can be. I would like to know more about the exact circumstances before deciding what I think. Did the woman have time to get out of the way? Could she not see the children for some reason until it was too late? She may not have been able to move very fast, or she may have thought the child would swerve to miss her. If the parent was not watching the child very well, I don't know. I'm not around kids a lot, so I'm not sure how well a 4 YO could absorb pre-instructions like "when you're on your bike, don't run into people" and "be careful and look where you're going." If the kid's not old enough to watch out for herself and others, maybe it's best she not ride bikes until she's older, or that she do so in a more controlled environment, like a backyard or some other sheltered area. She could run out into the street and get run over.
    If she assumed the children would swerve to miss her instead of moving she is liable. It is what is legally know as "last chance".

    What ever the kids were told about looking out for people on the side walk as precautionary measures such as be" careful "" As long as the use of the sidewalk was legal would meet the supervisory requirements as the childrens safty is what the supervision is meant to protect.

    The child cannot defend itself under our legal system and cannot express the moment correctly. The bike may have had a bent rim or fork the child may have had a muscle spasm making the accident unavoidable on her part . A gnat may have flew in her eye making it an act of god. The fact she cannot represent her fact or the facts of the accident violates her due process. IMO @ the craziness angle.
    Last edited by Soulmagent; 10-30-2010 at 10:26 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulmagent View Post
    If she assumed the children would swerve to miss her instead of moving she is liable. It is what is legally know as "last chance".

    What ever the kids were told about looking out for people on the side walk as precautionary measures such as be" careful "" As long as the use of the sidewalk was legal would meet the supervisory requirements as the childrens safty is what the supervision is meant to protect.

    The child cannot defend itself under our legal system and cannot express the moment correctly. The bike may have had a bent rim or fork the child may have had a muscle spasm making the accident unavoidable on her part . A gnat may have flew in her eye making it an act of god. The fact she cannot represent her fact or the facts of the accident violates her due process. IMO @ the craziness angle.
    Exactly! Four year-olds having to defend themselves in court is ridiculous. A four year-old being liable for damages in a bike accident is just plain stupid. Most four year-olds would be very new to bikes and are prone to have accidents (I know I did!) Even suing the parents for this accident is ridiculous.

    That little girl could have hit a tree or a sign, but tragically she hit an elderly woman. Regardless it was an accident. Not every accident requires that someone be sued. Sometimes a tragic accident is just that, an ACCIDENT.

    If the little girl is sued, would a judgment be levied against her? How would she pay it? Would her wages be garnished once she grows up and gets a job?

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...102906493.html

    The judge says there's no evidence a child of that age couldn't appreciate "the danger of riding a bicycle into an elderly woman."
    Really? A four-year-old can appreciate the danger to the elderly woman? You mean a four-year-old wouldn't think that if the woman were knocked down, she wouldn't just get back up like the little girl does? Maybe just a skinned knee?
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulmagent View Post
    If she assumed the children would swerve to miss her instead of moving she is liable. It is what is legally know as "last chance".
    I'm not saying that's what happened. The article doesn't say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulmagent View Post
    What ever the kids were told about looking out for people on the side walk as precautionary measures such as be" careful "" As long as the use of the sidewalk was legal would meet the supervisory requirements as the childrens safty is what the supervision is meant to protect.
    Well, the kids aren't very safe if they aren't able/aren't old enough to keep from running into things. Perhaps laws governing the use of sidewalks need to be revamped. If the kid can't avoid running into a probably slow-moving elderly person, what else can't she avoid running into, thus hurting herself, never mind anything/anyone else?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulmagent View Post
    The child cannot defend itself under our legal system and cannot express the moment correctly. The bike may have had a bent rim or fork the child may have had a muscle spasm making the accident unavoidable on her part . A gnat may have flew in her eye making it an act of god. The fact she cannot represent her fact or the facts of the accident violates her due process. IMO @ the craziness angle.
    That's what the lawyer is for and her parent, who apparently was present at the accident. I'm sure she's not being asked to represent herself and give 100% flawless, accurate testimony as to what happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuffy View Post
    Exactly! Four year-olds having to defend themselves in court is ridiculous. A four year-old being liable for damages in a bike accident is just plain stupid. Most four year-olds would be very new to bikes and are prone to have accidents (I know I did!) Even suing the parents for this accident is ridiculous.

    That little girl could have hit a tree or a sign, but tragically she hit an elderly woman. Regardless it was an accident. Not every accident requires that someone be sued. Sometimes a tragic accident is just that, an ACCIDENT.

    If the little girl is sued, would a judgment be levied against her? How would she pay it? Would her wages be garnished once she grows up and gets a job?
    (Respectfully snipped)
    Her parents' insurance company is, what I understand, would be asked to pay. I'm under the understanding that the lady's insurance refused to pay her medical costs because the damage was caused by another.
    If there is anything worse than the sandwiches, it is the sausages which sit next to them. Joyless tubes, full of gristle, floating in a sea of something hot and sad, stuck with a plastic pin in the shape of a chef’s hat: A memorial, one feels, for some chef who hated the world, and died, forgotten and alone among his cats on a back stair in Stepney. – Douglas Adams


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuzzieCat View Post
    I'm not saying that's what happened. The article doesn't say.



    Well, the kids aren't very safe if they aren't able/aren't old enough to keep from running into things. Perhaps laws governing the use of sidewalks need to be revamped. If the kid can't avoid running into a probably slow-moving elderly person, what else can't she avoid running into, thus hurting herself, never mind anything/anyone else?



    That's what the lawyer is for and her parent, who apparently was present at the accident. I'm sure she's not being asked to represent herself and give 100% flawless, accurate testimony as to what happened.


    (Respectfully snipped)
    Her parents' insurance company is, what I understand, would be asked to pay. I'm under the understanding that the lady's insurance refused to pay her medical costs because the damage was caused by another.
    yeah, you're right, BuzzieCat. I guess I do know that the little girl won't have to pay. I still think the lawsuit is unnecessary. The family just needs to accept that it is an accident.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuffy View Post
    yeah, you're right, BuzzieCat. I guess I do know that the little girl won't have to pay. I still think the lawsuit is unnecessary. The family just needs to accept that it is an accident.
    I know it sounds ridiculous on the face of it, but it's probably a legal way of getting to her family's insurance company since their own won't pay. I know I wouldn't be able to pay my medical bills if I was injured by someone else and my insurance refused to pay. I guess that's the angle I'm looking at it from. Even if it is a 4 YO, that money has to come from somewhere. The hospital will want the woman's bills paid even though she is now deceased. In some ways this speaks to the difficulties in our legal and medical insurance systems that a child has to be sued for the money to be paid.

    Maybe if the girl is ruled not negligent, the elderly lady's insurance will have to pay? I dunno.
    If there is anything worse than the sandwiches, it is the sausages which sit next to them. Joyless tubes, full of gristle, floating in a sea of something hot and sad, stuck with a plastic pin in the shape of a chef’s hat: A memorial, one feels, for some chef who hated the world, and died, forgotten and alone among his cats on a back stair in Stepney. – Douglas Adams

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuzzieCat View Post
    I know it sounds ridiculous on the face of it, but it's probably a legal way of getting to her family's insurance company since their own won't pay. I know I wouldn't be able to pay my medical bills if I was injured by someone else and my insurance refused to pay. I guess that's the angle I'm looking at it from. Even if it is a 4 YO, that money has to come from somewhere. The hospital will want the woman's bills paid even though she is now deceased. In some ways this speaks to the difficulties in our legal and medical insurance systems that a child has to be sued for the money to be paid.

    Maybe if the girl is ruled not negligent, the elderly lady's insurance will have to pay? I dunno.
    I get what you're saying about getting money from the parent's insurance. My problem with the situation is that her family seems to feel that someone else should pay the woman's bills. I feel that it was no one's fault, just an accident. I the elderly woman's family can't pay her bills all at once, they could work out a payment plan with the hospital.

    The child doesn't have to be sued. The family is choosing to sue a child instead of accepting that the elderly woman was in an 'accident.' If they want the elderly woman's insurance to cover the bills, and it won't, their beef is with the insurance company, not a little girl. I just don't subscribe to the philosophy that someone else should pay her bills.
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  14. #14
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    That's weird the lady's insurance wouldn't pay. If I were in a car accident that wasn't my fault, my insurance would still cover me for any treatment. She must have had craptacular insurance, which is of course, very common.

  15. #15
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    I love this thread. It has been cracking me up all day. I am looking for a well to do 4 yr old to sue. Candy from a baby...

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