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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    western PA, USA
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    903

    NM - Truth or Consequences, WhtMale UP8544, 30-50, off Hwy 181, Apr'10

    http://www.abqjournal.com/abqnews/cr...l-remains.html

    There is a police sketch of this John Doe at the link above. He had a very distinct nose. His possessions and clothing included a hazmat card, which is evidently earned by attending training sessions to become a hazardous materials first responder. The fact that he carried this card, along with his green Cintas pants, makes me think he was employed and possibly en route to or from work at the time of his death, as it doesn't seem as likely someone would be wearing uniform pants and still carrying a certification card if he was retired. Note that brand name on his polo shirt seems to be a typo. It's Munsingwear, known for its penguin logo. He also had with him "Reyno" brand cigarettes from Germany.

    He is thought to have been in the desert for more than two years, I assume due to the dates on the $16.77 in currency he had on him.

    Additional article: http://www.koat.com/news/25607406/detail.html
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 03-27-2013 at 02:45 PM.
    <-- Watched one too many Hanna-Barbera "teenage detective" cartoons as a kid.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    western PA, USA
    Posts
    903
    Very similar glasses, possibly a nose like the UID (it's hard to tell from the photo) and a build that might fit the 46X25 pants on the UID.

    There are no measurements or age estimation on the UID, however, and the sketch suggests he might be older than the missing man's age of 28. Also, he's been missing nine years and I'd assume it would be reported if the UID had no currency on him more current than 2001.

    http://charleyproject.org/cases/b/burckley_michael.html
    <-- Watched one too many Hanna-Barbera "teenage detective" cartoons as a kid.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    197
    The pants found with the skeletal John Doe were size 25 length there is no way that a man standing 6'2'' would be able to wear them comfortably. Not that it is impossible, but I feel highly unlikely. Good searching though. They have very similar facial structure.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    western PA, USA
    Posts
    903
    How did I miss that? I suspect that "25" may be an error, because if I understand men's clothing sizes correctly, our UID would have worn an XXL or 2XL based on his waist measurement of 46, but his inseam measurement is 5 units below an XXS. If that number is correct, Cintas ought to be able to help identify a past customer with such unique measurements.

    Considering the typo on "Munsingwear," perhaps his clothing labels were quite deteriorated and hard to read. I emailed NM State Police at Las Cruces to inquire as to whether the UID's pant size is correct.
    <-- Watched one too many Hanna-Barbera "teenage detective" cartoons as a kid.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    18,098
    That would make him a very short, very fat man. Unless for whatever reason they weren't full-length pants?
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    164
    Quote Originally Posted by carbuff View Post
    That would make him a very short, very fat man. Unless for whatever reason they weren't full-length pants?
    I check out the eBay site for Cintas pants which they either have short/long pants. My sister in law's Dad from my wife side have wide waist size like 46" range. He probably same height as Michael Burckley.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=320604288818
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=180546945854

    I'm not sure whether 46" x 25" pant actually an short pant for tall & wide man like Michael. How cold is the weather in New Mexico during the month of January when he was missing?

    Maybe it's unique size & custom pant for short & fat man not named M.E.B.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    432
    I have been searching for Jonathan Betts for awhile. Since there is no age or specific identifiers on the UP, I submitted him as a possible to both agencies.

    Worth noting is that Betts had a passport (German cigaretts). Betts is also very stocky, the time line fits, he has a prominent and distinctive nose and the circumstances are not outside the realm of possibility. May be nothing but there is just too little to go on here.
    http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/ga...hp?A200604989S

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Northeast USA
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    3,538
    Quote Originally Posted by tatertot View Post
    http://www.abqjournal.com/abqnews/cr...l-remains.html

    There is a police sketch of this John Doe at the link above. He had a very distinct nose. His possessions and clothing included a hazmat card, which is evidently earned by attending training sessions to become a hazardous materials first responder. The fact that he carried this card, along with his green Cintas pants, makes me think he was employed and possibly en route to or from work at the time of his death, as it doesn't seem as likely someone would be wearing uniform pants and still carrying a certification card if he was retired. Note that brand name on his polo shirt seems to be a typo. It's Munsingwear, known for its penguin logo. He also had with him "Reyno" brand cigarettes from Germany.

    He is thought to have been in the desert for more than two years, I assume due to the dates on the $16.77 in currency he had on him.

    Additional article: http://www.koat.com/news/25607406/detail.html
    where would they get that nose from? is not the nose cartilage and does not survive the elements when the body becomes a skeleton?

    I don't think it was a person missing for very long before the death as the hazmat card and the foreign cigarettes don't seem to be from someone on the lam.

    I was trying to find toxic waste sites in the area and one popped up as a former Superfund site (I think most waste sites are not superfunds but just for reference).

    this list shows one in Truth or Consequences called the North Broadway Groundwater Plume:

    http://cfpub.epa.gov/supercpad/cursi...76&sortby=city

    If I am reading the list correctly, it might have been remediated in 2005. If this is a valid starting point, I wonder who was awarded the contract to clean up the site?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    197
    There are several incidents where the harsh desert like environment has led to some preservation or mumification of human tissue providing a very accurate depiction of what one looked like before death.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New England
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    Even if the cartilage doesn't survive, they can approximate from the shape of the bones to which it was attached. So the bones at the bridge of the nose would tell them it was broadly arched and the bones at the bottom would tell that the nose pointed down.

    Wasn't there a name on the hazmat card?
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chicago burbs
    Posts
    74,837
    Here's another recent media article on this UID.

    http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/25666335/detail.html
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

    You can now purchase Mr. Harrod's Disappeared episode through Amazon, iTunes or YouTube.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    19,247


    The front and the profile sketches somehow look like two different people to me. I don't know why. I don't think they line up properly, the front view seems to have bigger ears and a longer chin while the forehead is pretty much the same size in both pictures.

    http://www.abqjournal.com/abqnews/cr...l-remains.html

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New England
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    They aren't drawn to quite the same scale.
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Northeast USA
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    3,538
    I hope this link comes through. here is someone selling a pair of pants with the measurements of 46 x 25. unfortunately the picture is so small it is does not show what the whole thing looks like:

    "AUTHENTIC" HANDMADE AMISH MENS PANTS 46 X 25 - eBay (item 400167119076 end time Feb-21-11 16:06:30 PST)

    as for his height, I was not able to find any standardized chart giving estimated heights for inseam lengths. from what I could gather, assuming the pants went all the way down to his ankles, a 25" inseam should yield a height of no more than about 5'2".

    a man who actually fit into a 46" waist at 5'2" would be morbidly obese I would think.
    Last edited by KateB; 04-28-2015 at 10:09 AM. Reason: repair url tag.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    19,247
    Most of the links are dead but here he is in Namus:

    https://identifyus.org/en/cases/8544

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