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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenwe4 View Post
    What we do know is that Zahra attended school through June (ish) 2010. She was attending school @ the time of the hearing aides video, because the school was involved with assisting her to obtain these (from what I remember). We know that CPS has been involved with the family previously (from what has been reported by family and friends - no confirmation from CPS).

    I believe AB & EB wanted CPS out of their lives, so they moved, told the previous school they were "homeschooling" and never enrolled her in any education program from their on. I think they probably moved - leaving no forwarding address (due to the bounced checks, CPS, and bill collectors on their tail). Because Zahra never showed up to school this school year in the fall, and the neighbors at the home said they never knew a child lived there, AB & EB were "motivated" to keep Zahra away from anyone who might report them to CPS for abuse or neglect.

    Certainly, if it hadn't been done before - someone would notice bruises, ill fitting leg, sores, sickly child, etc. It could be that Zahra wasn't let out at all except for the furniture store incident - just to avoid anyone who might look at a disabled child more closely.

    One more thought, children with disabilities are at a much higher risk of abuse and/or neglect.
    Thank you for that info. If I could ask a couple more questions please/

    What is the timeline in Zahra's life? How old when she left Australia? How old when she had her bone cancer and all the treatments? When did her Dad marry stepmom? Thanks for your answer or any directions as to where I can get this information.


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  3. #17
    Graphic theory -- based on the several strange places and things they looked at such as the woodchipper and the mattress and removing the drain in the kitchen sink (as seen in photos)
    IMO - she might have died of natural causes/neglect and maybe AB & EB in their neglectful parenting didn't notice that she had passed for a day or two -- since she supposedly stayed in her room so much maybe they failed to check on her. Then - when they discover what has happened they panic -- because how would they explain to police and the coroner why they hadn't called earlier. How would they explain a day or two old dead body in their house ?
    Pardon the graphic nature but there's no delicate way to say --- then maybe they dismembered her and put the limbs through the woodchipper and burried the torso and head.
    It's sick and twisted but it would make all the pieces of this puzzle come together.
    Then they came up with the ridiculous ramsom note .....and we all know how it went from there. The fire in the mulch pile could have been to get rid of clothes and bedding.


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  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunsetbeach View Post
    I was asking about the black eye picture this morning and someone linked me to the info. Back in August when that was taken Zahra didn't look good. I wasn't just looking at the black eye but her appearance as a whole. Her face looked swollen. Could her cancer have come back and no one knew because she was never taken to a doctor? My Mom walked around for 2 years with Lung cancer and didn't know it until she got really sick and went in to the ER where they informed her of the Stage 4 cancer and gave her 6 months.
    Oh, I'm so sorry sunset (big hugs). From my experience, the body shows signs when the inside isn't working correctly. Shortly before my mom passed I knew something was terribly wrong. Here I am crying in hysterics, and she's not listening to me (not one word Melanie you know I hate doctors). This was in September. By January she was gone from complications of untreated diabetes (with a level of 700). She was wasting away before my eyes, but just kept saying she wasn't hungry.

    So yes, I believe something similar could have been going on with Zahra when that photo was taken.

    MOO

    Mel



  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sneechwatcher View Post
    Graphic theory -- based on the several strange places and things they looked at such as the woodchipper and the mattress and removing the drain in the kitchen sink (as seen in photos)
    IMO - she might have died of natural causes/neglect and maybe AB & EB in their neglectful parenting didn't notice that she had passed for a day or two -- since she supposedly stayed in her room so much maybe they failed to check on her. Then - when they discover what has happened they panic -- because how would they explain to police and the coroner why they hadn't called earlier. How would they explain a day or two old dead body in their house ?
    Pardon the graphic nature but there's no delicate way to say --- then maybe they dismembered her and put the limbs through the woodchipper and burried the torso and head.
    It's sick and twisted but it would make all the pieces of this puzzle come together.
    Then they came up with the ridiculous ramsom note .....and we all know how it went from there. The fire in the mulch pile could have been to get rid of clothes and bedding.

    This is what I was thinking too - the dismemberment part. I think that is why they were checking the drains...maybe they did it in the bathtub and they were looking for blood in the drains..
    ick.......I hate even thinking about it.


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  8. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by epiphany View Post
    IMO, I believe the COD was a final and extremely violent physical beating that resulted in Zahra's immediate death. I do believe physical, psychological and emotional abuse and neglect had been ongoing and escalating since Z's arrival in the US. However, I'm thinking that COD was a final release of extreme rage, anger and physical violence upon Zahra in the form of a vicious, rage-fueled life-ending beating.
    I tend to think so, too, Epiphany. I think Zahra was EB's punching bag on a daily basis. I think EB stormed into that room in rage whenever she felt it, and beat Zahra. As with most abuse cases, the violence gets worse and ends up in murder. I think it's very possible Zahra was also dying of cancer or sepsis, but I think it was a beating that ultimately killed her at the moment she died. Just my hunch.


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  10. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenwe4 View Post
    I have a few theories in mind about what might have led to Zahra's death. Of course there are theories of abuse, both physical and sexual. I am more curious about the effects of Neglect on Zahra. Essentially, withholding from the child the very things they need to thrive and grow. For Zahra, we know she needed a prosthetic leg, crutches, and continual medical monitoring for her amputation - as well as ensuring her cancer didn't return.

    We have a WS member here who has invaluable first hand information about amputees and prosthesis. I am hoping Allusonz will again post about how often a child needs to have checkups and adjustments, etc on their prosthetic leg.

    What would be the consequences of an ill fitting prosthesis? I am wondering if wounds - left untreated could result in infection and a systemic response.
    First i must say how close to home this particular case has hit me and i am soooooooooo upset but i have to believe that zahra is dancing and well above her freckled star

    Fittings of the prothesis is critical. The sores occur rapidly, are extremely painful and yes infection can set in, to the point i have seen where the doctors have had to go in and do a revision (further amputation) higher above the dead tissue. Until later in age she was seen at least every 2 months by a group of professionals. Surgeries, growth spurts necessitated additional followups and this was always done with the entire team of 20. The best comparison i can come up with at the moment would be a diabetic whose sores will not heal, in this case if forced to wear the prothesis over these sores, up hills etc would create an environment of deep gravity for her health especially a weakened immune system from cancer etc. As well for EB to make her run like a normal child that is simply impossible. It is more like a hop/skip for any of you that have watched Terry Fox run that is the extent of their run for an above knee amputation. The moisture, bacteria from forcing her to wear it would again complicate the issue. Often a debriment is needed before an additional amputation to get rid of the rotten tissue and infection. She never wears her prothesis to bed.

    Sorry all this would be no different from any other person that had an infected sore that the doctors cannot control. I anticipate MOO that she indeed had an infection and dont want to think what they did from there

    RIP Zahra may your sweet smile shine always



  11. #22
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    ty allusonz! I was so hoping you would weigh in on this thread. You're RL experience will be invaluable in the days to come.
    Websleuths now on Facebook

    Welcome to all new members. Thank you for joining the conversation. Please take a moment to become familiar with the TOS and rules, etiquette and information.


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  13. #23
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    I would suspect stress alone could have contributed lack of health and decrease the body's immune system's protection.

    I can only imagine the pain in the hip of her good leg when walking due to the imbalance of the prosthesis.

    I can also imagine an infection from the ill fitting prosthesis becoming sepsis then gangrene setting in. In the last picture with the black eye her skin pallor was not right and reminded me of someone very ill.

    I suspect one of the biggest issues will be determining time of death! If the new mattress does not have any evidence of Zahra that will definitely narrow the timeline down.

    If she had a serious oozing sepsis infection anywhere on her body I'd suspect there will be evidence on the old mattress.

    Either way there is definitely a case against AB for medical neglect.
    (My opinon only)
    About the time we can make ends meet, somebody moves the ends. Herbert Hoover


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  15. #24
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    To clarify further after a surgery a nurse accidently put the wrong size of tensor bandage on her stump do to a surgery on her hip. Within 5 hours the infection had spread throughout her system, she was immediately taken to surgery for an additional amputation unrelated to the hip surgery simply from the tightness of the tensor bandage. It then required a further debriment and a week of specialized bath treatments. This can happen slowly or very quickly but it will happen when the prothesis is not fitting correctly and made to wear it......



  16. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allusonz View Post
    To clarify further after a surgery a nurse accidently put the wrong size of tensor bandage on her stump do to a surgery on her hip. Within 5 hours the infection had spread throughout her system, she was immediately taken to surgery for an additional amputation unrelated to the hip surgery simply from the tightness of the tensor bandage. It then required a further debriment and a week of specialized bath treatments. This can happen slowly or very quickly but it will happen when the prothesis is not fitting correctly and made to wear it......
    Allusonz they tried to fit my mom with a prosthesis after her leg was amputated. She had already gotten sepsis then it turned to gangrene within just a few days. They had to amputate again but she passed away 2 hours after that. The infection and gangrene had a horrible smell and moved with rapid speed! I'll never forget it.

    Don't you think there would be evidence of that on the old mattress?
    There would also have been a horrible stench in her room just from that.
    About the time we can make ends meet, somebody moves the ends. Herbert Hoover



  17. #26
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    COD: felonious child abuse by EB

    MOD: Murder 1

    That's all I got I'm sorry. JMHO


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  19. #27
    shay0903 is offline Verified Health Professional - Registered Nurse
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    I too have lots of thoughts and concerns. I am not a verified RN certified in pediatrics on WS (yet- email has been sent) but I can say from my perspective medically there are sooo many things that could have happened. Several key points I wanted to make:
    1)Cancer in children can sometimes seem to happen very quickly. Ive heard the saying a thousand times...children bounce back better than adults but they go down they crash hard. Children have this natural resealunce (sp>) they can compensate things for a very long time, their bodies can I mean. But once their body says hey I can't take this anymore it can change very very quickly. That is why children are dealt with very aggressively when it comes to cancer and not waiting until they are sicker. They can usually tolerate the high Chemo etc better than adults in the begining.
    2)MOO Zahra had a double whammy in regards to her cancer. Not only did she have cancer of the bone but the treatment for cancer can also make the bones extremely weak. If anyone was physically abusing her they could have very easily broken a bone with little effort on their part. When a child even a 10y old child is denied sun (*Remember neighbors at the HKY residence never seen zahra so she was not outside alot) a key ingredient the body needs to help absorb vitamin d Lack of vitamin D causes lack of calcium thus fragile bones. Think of the osteoporis commercials and the frail older ladies whose bones break very easily. One thought I just had particularly about this is maybe that is why she may have been dismembered. Did someone break a bone and they wanted to hide this particular part from the rest of the body?? quick note that i just read on wikipedia.com Ricketts- symptom of lack of vitamin d and weakening of bones can cause blood clots just like broken bones can....
    3) I AM NOT TAKING UP FOR EB!! but...thinking medically I wonder if some (and I mean SOME) of the bruises could have been related to some form of her Cancer returning. A reasonable parent noticing lots of bruising in a 10 yr should have seen this as a red flag..(aka AB) Just a thought I had when thinking about cancer in children
    4)Sepsis can set in from any wound not treated. Sepsis can also set in from any illness that sets up. It can be viral(rare) or bacterial. If you take someone who has a weak immune system already from cancer it may be alot worse/alot quicker. If a person is denied nutrition, water etc...it can be quicker. Sepsis (an infection of the bloodstream) left untreated=death. Sepsis rates are higher in immunocompromised individuals such as Zahra.
    5) The fact her prosthetic was most likely ill fitting and EB forced her to runa dn walk frequently for punishment she probably had wounds on her stump. mho
    6) Drugs...hum. This could be an interesting fact in this case too. With Zahra's cancer and all her treatments I wonder if her liver function was good. Sometimes people can not tolerate the same doses of ANYTHING when their liver is damaged. I will have to research some more but it makes me wonder could a few doses of OTC cold/cough medicine killed her...not to mention illegal drugs. Shoot EB could have been slowly poisoning her and blaming it on the cancer returning...'oh adam i think she is getting sick again....'

    Ultimately we dont know what her health status was since she was never treated here or the living conditions so it is scary the possibilities of COD when you look at just her medical history and childhood cancer.
    * I just wanted to throw my info out there to help others understand how much her medical hx may indeed affect this case. I pray she didnt suffer and that it may be just natural causes from her cancer but I still fear that she her environment affected it in a big way.**



  20. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiredblondy View Post
    Allusonz they tried to fit my mom with a prosthesis after her leg was amputated. She had already gotten sepsis then it turned to gangrene within just a few days. They had to amputate again but she passed away 2 hours after that. The infection and gangrene had a horrible smell and moved with rapid speed! I'll never forget it.

    Don't you think there would be evidence of that on the old mattress?
    There would also have been a horrible stench in her room just from that.
    Yes there is a distinct smell, they must acutally leave the wound open to ensure that the infection is cleaned out. There would definately be evidence of that whether in the bathroom for obvious reasons the bed again for obvious reasons. She would be very weak and would require IMMEDIATE medical assistance. Yes she was put into isolation not just for the smell but to ensure strict medical procedures where in place to prevent further complications. Hope this helps and my thoughts and prayers are with you, your family, and know your mom is no longer suffering i simply have to believe that!!! This is a life and death situation


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  22. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allusonz View Post
    Yes there is a distinct smell, they must acutally leave the wound open to ensure that the infection is cleaned out. There would definately be evidence of that whether in the bathroom for obvious reasons the bed again for obvious reasons. She would be very weak and would require IMMEDIATE medical assistance. Yes she was put into isolation not just for the smell but to ensure strict medical procedures where in place to prevent further complications. Hope this helps and my thoughts and prayers are with you, your family, and know your mom is no longer suffering i simply have to believe that!!! This is a life and death situation
    Thank you so much. After years of watching her suffer with a terminal illness there was relief that she was not suffering any more, although she is missed terribly.

    We did have to wear gowns to enter her room and the medical staff had to wear masks, gloves and gowns.

    You know after what we know of Zahra's suffering it is a relief to know she suffers no more!

    I'd heard of sepsis but had never seen the ravages of it or how quickly gangrene can begin. Once it's in the bloodstream like you said it is unstoppable. (I think it's a shame IF that was what happened EB and AB didn't catch it...oh but I forgot...they'd take themselves to the hospital.)

    I know this sounds harsh but even a pulmonary embolism from a clot would have been a blessing instead of being beaten to death.

    Does anyone know if sepsis is like mrsa in that once it leaves the body as in a blood droplet that dries the mrsa dies. Sepsis is so easily spread I'd like to think there would be some on that mattress if that is what happened.
    About the time we can make ends meet, somebody moves the ends. Herbert Hoover


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  24. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allusonz View Post
    Yes there is a distinct smell, they must acutally leave the wound open to ensure that the infection is cleaned out. There would definately be evidence of that whether in the bathroom for obvious reasons the bed again for obvious reasons. She would be very weak and would require IMMEDIATE medical assistance. Yes she was put into isolation not just for the smell but to ensure strict medical procedures where in place to prevent further complications. Hope this helps and my thoughts and prayers are with you, your family, and know your mom is no longer suffering i simply have to believe that!!! This is a life and death situation
    Maybe if the smell from the possible sepsis was getting so bad, maybe that's why there was a comforter and pillow in the car? Did EB maybe put her in there because of the smell from the leg infection? And she died in the car?


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