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  1. #1

    Why the DNA may NOT be important

    Today we see another case in which FOREIGN DNA found on a victim is insignificant to prosecuting and convicting a murderer.

    Chandra Levy case:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_chandra_levy
    Defense attorneys said Morales' testimony couldn't be trusted. They also pointed to DNA from an unknown male that was found on Levy's black running tights. The DNA matched neither Guandique nor Condit, and the defense said it was powerful evidence that the wrong person was on trial. Prosecutors argued the DNA was the result of contamination during the testing process.

    It's too bad that Patsy Ramsey is not alive today to face the same consequences. Unfortunately Boulder had an inept police force and a whacked DAs office headed by Alex Hunter who did everything he could to protect this rich Boulder family. Had this happened in any other state, you could have bet Patsy Ramsey would have died in prision and John would still be serving a long sentence for the cover-up of this crime.

    In the Levy case, all they had was a convicts testomony that Guandique told him he commited the crime and other similar crimes in which Guandique robbed women in that park, but oddly enough never killed the others. I am not saying he didn't do it, just pointing out how little they had to convict him.

    Compare that to the ransom note which single handedly (no pun intended) points directly to Patsy, along with HER sweater fibers being found intertwined in the knot of the garrote. JB favorite PJ's beside her and being wrapped in her blanket. Prior sexual abuse, pineapple bowl with Patsy's fingerprints, all lead back to Patsy. Seems like a mountain of evidence compared to the Levy case.

    Just thought I would leave everyone more food for thought. And a note to John Ramsey---It's not over yet. One day someone with some balls and smarts will take over the DAs office and this case will see the light of day.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nedthan Johns View Post
    Today we see another case in which FOREIGN DNA found on a victim is insignificant to prosecuting and convicting a murderer.

    Chandra Levy case:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_chandra_levy
    Defense attorneys said Morales' testimony couldn't be trusted. They also pointed to DNA from an unknown male that was found on Levy's black running tights. The DNA matched neither Guandique nor Condit, and the defense said it was powerful evidence that the wrong person was on trial. Prosecutors argued the DNA was the result of contamination during the testing process.

    It's too bad that Patsy Ramsey is not alive today to face the same consequences. Unfortunately Boulder had an inept police force and a whacked DAs office headed by Alex Hunter who did everything he could to protect this rich Boulder family. Had this happened in any other state, you could have bet Patsy Ramsey would have died in prision and John would still be serving a long sentence for the cover-up of this crime.

    In the Levy case, all they had was a convicts testomony that Guandique told him he commited the crime and other similar crimes in which Guandique robbed women in that park, but oddly enough never killed the others. I am not saying he didn't do it, just pointing out how little they had to convict him.

    Compare that to the ransom note which single handedly (no pun intended) points directly to Patsy, along with HER sweater fibers being found intertwined in the knot of the garrote. JB favorite PJ's beside her and being wrapped in her blanket. Prior sexual abuse, pineapple bowl with Patsy's fingerprints, all lead back to Patsy. Seems like a mountain of evidence compared to the Levy case.

    Just thought I would leave everyone more food for thought. And a note to John Ramsey---It's not over yet. One day someone with some balls and smarts will take over the DAs office and this case will see the light of day.
    I expect the court / jury would want to see a match to whomever the prosecution believes (accidently) contaminated the evidence.

    Even if the DNA does not match Guandique nor Condit it is not fully excultapory unless conviction is based solely on that DNA.

    It allows for a reasonable doubt.
    ......... ..........
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    .....................................
    .my opinions are my own.

  3. #3
    Remember the DNA found in the Ramsey case is contaminated and does not provide full markers. Dr. Henry Lee already stated the DNA could have ended up their via secondary transfer. Therefore like the Levy case, the DNA most likely is not related to the actual murder. The DAs office ignored the rest of the evidence in this case. IMO the most important piece of evidence is the ransom note that directly links to the killer in this case.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nedthan Johns View Post
    It's too bad that Patsy Ramsey is not alive today to face the same consequences. Unfortunately Boulder had an inept police force and a whacked DAs office headed by Alex Hunter who did everything he could to protect this rich Boulder family. Had this happened in any other state, you could have bet Patsy Ramsey would have died in prision and John would still be serving a long sentence for the cover-up of this crime.
    Bravo, Ned. Absolutely. If this had happened ANYWHERE else, the Rs would be weeping bitter tears this very day.

    Compare that to the ransom note which single handedly (no pun intended) points directly to Patsy, along with HER sweater fibers being found intertwined in the knot of the garrote. JB favorite PJ's beside her and being wrapped in her blanket. Prior sexual abuse, pineapple bowl with Patsy's fingerprints, all lead back to Patsy. Seems like a mountain of evidence compared to the Levy case.
    Like I've said before, Ned: plenty of people have gone away with a lot less.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  5. #5
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    bubm


    http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_13062285

    JonBenet Ramsey DNA timeline

    Daily Camera staff
    Posted: 08/28/2006 11:00:00 AM MDT

    1997 — DNA collected from a blood spot on JonBenet Ramsey's underwear described as contaminated.

    1999 — FBI releases new technology called Short Tandem Repeat to profile DNA. It uses 13 markers to raise the probability that a randomly selected individual would match it is one in 1 quintillion.

    2001 — The new testing is allowed after a legal battle in Colorado's courts, and JonBenet's underwear is analyzed again resulting in between one and two markers out of 13 being defined.

    2003 — Second blood spot on JonBenet's underwear tested resulting in between nine and 10 markers on the spot to be defined. That genetic fingerprint meets the threshold to be placed into a national database, Combined DNA Indexing System or CODIS, which holds DNA profiles of those convicted in most states of certain crimes. No match has been made.
    I believe that excludes the Rs.
    ......... ..........
    ..............................
    .....................................
    .my opinions are my own.

  6. #6
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    Another, experienced opinion ...

    bubm


    http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_13061894

    Expert says DNA is strong JonBenet case

    Daily Camera staff
    Posted: 08/24/2006 11:00:00 AM MDT

    The DNA evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey case is solid, and there's a strong possibility it points to the killer, a self-proclaimed neutral observer and expert on DNA analysis said.

    Rock Harmon, a senior deputy prosecutor in Alameda County, Calif., said there's been spin regarding the DNA from two sides — those arguing for her parents' guilt and those promoting an intruder — but that attention must be paid to the biological evidence in JonBenet's underwear.

    "It's there, it can't be avoided," Harmon said. "Strange male DNA shouldn't be anywhere around a dead young girl."
    ......... ..........
    ..............................
    .....................................
    .my opinions are my own.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nedthan Johns View Post
    Today we see another case in which FOREIGN DNA found on a victim is insignificant to prosecuting and convicting a murderer.

    Chandra Levy case:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_chandra_levy
    Defense attorneys said Morales' testimony couldn't be trusted. They also pointed to DNA from an unknown male that was found on Levy's black running tights. The DNA matched neither Guandique nor Condit, and the defense said it was powerful evidence that the wrong person was on trial. Prosecutors argued the DNA was the result of contamination during the testing process.

    It's too bad that Patsy Ramsey is not alive today to face the same consequences. Unfortunately Boulder had an inept police force and a whacked DAs office headed by Alex Hunter who did everything he could to protect this rich Boulder family. Had this happened in any other state, you could have bet Patsy Ramsey would have died in prision and John would still be serving a long sentence for the cover-up of this crime.

    In the Levy case, all they had was a convicts testomony that Guandique told him he commited the crime and other similar crimes in which Guandique robbed women in that park, but oddly enough never killed the others. I am not saying he didn't do it, just pointing out how little they had to convict him.

    Compare that to the ransom note which single handedly (no pun intended) points directly to Patsy, along with HER sweater fibers being found intertwined in the knot of the garrote. JB favorite PJ's beside her and being wrapped in her blanket. Prior sexual abuse, pineapple bowl with Patsy's fingerprints, all lead back to Patsy. Seems like a mountain of evidence compared to the Levy case.

    Just thought I would leave everyone more food for thought. And a note to John Ramsey---It's not over yet. One day someone with some balls and smarts will take over the DAs office and this case will see the light of day.
    Thank you for your voice of reason!!! Fantastic post!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckMaureen View Post
    Another, experienced opinion ...

    bubm
    ChuckMaureen
    attention must be paid to the biological evidence in JonBenet's underwear.
    Would that be semen dna? Or is it something less significant?

    touch-dna is ambiguous it does not distinguish between the innocent or guilty. Just because you left your fingerprint upon some rest-room door-handle does not implicate you in any crime subsequent to your visit.

    Until the touch-dna is matched it has no meaning, except for the Ramsey apologists who need an intruder, since there was no forensic evidence left at the crime-scene which matches or links to anyone at all. Only that of the Ramsey's themselves, is that not curious, even interesting?


    .

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nedthan Johns View Post
    Today we see another case in which FOREIGN DNA found on a victim is insignificant to prosecuting and convicting a murderer.

    Chandra Levy case:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_chandra_levy
    Defense attorneys said Morales' testimony couldn't be trusted. They also pointed to DNA from an unknown male that was found on Levy's black running tights. The DNA matched neither Guandique nor Condit, and the defense said it was powerful evidence that the wrong person was on trial. Prosecutors argued the DNA was the result of contamination during the testing process.

    It's too bad that Patsy Ramsey is not alive today to face the same consequences. Unfortunately Boulder had an inept police force and a whacked DAs office headed by Alex Hunter who did everything he could to protect this rich Boulder family. Had this happened in any other state, you could have bet Patsy Ramsey would have died in prision and John would still be serving a long sentence for the cover-up of this crime.

    In the Levy case, all they had was a convicts testomony that Guandique told him he commited the crime and other similar crimes in which Guandique robbed women in that park, but oddly enough never killed the others. I am not saying he didn't do it, just pointing out how little they had to convict him.

    Compare that to the ransom note which single handedly (no pun intended) points directly to Patsy, along with HER sweater fibers being found intertwined in the knot of the garrote. JB favorite PJ's beside her and being wrapped in her blanket. Prior sexual abuse, pineapple bowl with Patsy's fingerprints, all lead back to Patsy. Seems like a mountain of evidence compared to the Levy case.

    Just thought I would leave everyone more food for thought. And a note to John Ramsey---It's not over yet. One day someone with some balls and smarts will take over the DAs office and this case will see the light of day.
    Nedthan Johns,
    Nice, well put.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    ChuckMaureen

    Would that be semen dna? Or is it something less significant?

    touch-dna is ambiguous it does not distinguish between the innocent or guilty. Just because you left your fingerprint upon some rest-room door-handle does not implicate you in any crime subsequent to your visit.

    Until the touch-dna is matched it has no meaning, except for the Ramsey apologists who need an intruder, since there was no forensic evidence left at the crime-scene which matches or links to anyone at all. Only that of the Ramsey's themselves, is that not curious, even interesting?


    .
    No semen was found in JB's underwear or anywhere else on her.

    Semen belonging to JAR was found on the comforter that was in the suitcase in the basement, along with a children's book.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.


  11. #11
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    It does seem odd that an intruder who left absolutely no sign of being in the house was stupid enough to leave DNA evidence on her clothing.

  12. #12

    Chuck...

    First of all your source is from the Daily Camera (horrible little newspaper)which states: "a self-proclaimed" neutral observer and expert on DNA analysis said.

    A self-proclaimed expert, boy that's laughable. Dr. Henry Lee one of the leading experts on this subject has already proclaimed this was NOT a DNA case.

    Again lack of intelligence and balls by the Boulder DAs office in pursuing the evidence in this case.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    No semen was found in JB's underwear or anywhere else on her.

    Semen belonging to JAR was found on the comforter that was in the suitcase in the basement, along with a children's book.
    DeeDee249,

    Shock , horror!
    No semen was found in JB's underwear or anywhere else on her.
    You cannot be seereeous ... so just what does this biological evidence amount to?

    Answers on a postcard 101 IDI Avenue, Crimesville.


    .

  14. #14
    Wow if we used the same theory that the Boulder DAs office is using in the Ramsey case with Chandra Levy’s case, Chandra’s killer would still be free and Washington DC would be waiting on CODIS to match the contaminated blood found on Chandra’s body. Just think the only reason her killer was convicted was from the testimony of another convict. In the Ramsey case there are 5 pieces of evidence that cannot be ignored.
    1.) The Ransom note that matches Patsy’s writing
    2.) The pineapple found in victims stomach matching that found in the bowl with Patsy’s prints
    3.) The skull fracture consistent with blunt force trauma (detective Smit himself said it matched that of the flash light found at the scene), which oddly enough matched the Ramsey’s which they could not find
    4.) Patsy’s Ramsey’s sweater fibers tangled in the knot of the garrote.
    5.) Lack of ANY fingerprints on the ransom note yet the Ramsey’s admitted handling the note several times

    Here is the simple plain facts in this case. The Ramsey’s wealth, along with the Boulder Police Departments lack of experience combined with the DA’s office headed by pompous Alex Hunter who pampered and protected the Ramsey’s helped the Ramsey’s steer clear of any charges. This case will NEVER go to trial now because the killer is already dead. This case would drain Boulder financially and frankly the IQ in that town still hovers around that of the Hare Krishna’s, hippies, and college binge drinkers who reside there (those from Colorado will get what I mean).

    Perhaps it was with some hope that re-interviewing Burke Ramsey would spark some guilt in the boy for what he knows. Nine years old at the time of the crime, the kid certainly would have remembered if his sister was awake or not when they arrived home. In his original interview he stated she was. Later the story changed. He would also know about the pineapple and if that was his voice on the 911 call. I heard the original call, and I heard a boy’s voice. He asked, “What did you find”. Again, Boulder is too polite with this family. They should have drug this kid in who is now what 22? Since this is still an active and open case and given him a lie detector test. Refusal once again, would at least put pressure back on the only 2 people left in this world that know what happened to JonBenet Ramsey.

    They will have to live with that for the rest of their lives. I can’t imagine they live peacefully with this knowledge. They will continue to protect Patsy Ramsey who I believe suffered from a mental illness and killed her child in a fit of rage. I can’t imagine that John or Burke Ramsey garners any amount of real respect in this world, and the disdain for their kind is not forgotten in the people who have shown remorse and love for JonBenet Ramsey, the public.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nedthan Johns View Post
    Wow if we used the same theory that the Boulder DAs office is using in the Ramsey case with Chandra Levy’s case, Chandra’s killer would still be free and Washington DC would be waiting on CODIS to match the contaminated blood found on Chandra’s body. Just think the only reason her killer was convicted was from the testimony of another convict. In the Ramsey case there are 5 pieces of evidence that cannot be ignored.
    1.) The Ransom note that matches Patsy’s writing
    2.) The pineapple found in victims stomach matching that found in the bowl with Patsy’s prints
    3.) The skull fracture consistent with blunt force trauma (detective Smit himself said it matched that of the flash light found at the scene), which oddly enough matched the Ramsey’s which they could not find
    4.) Patsy’s Ramsey’s sweater fibers tangled in the knot of the garrote.
    5.) Lack of ANY fingerprints on the ransom note yet the Ramsey’s admitted handling the note several times

    Here is the simple plain facts in this case. The Ramsey’s wealth, along with the Boulder Police Departments lack of experience combined with the DA’s office headed by pompous Alex Hunter who pampered and protected the Ramsey’s helped the Ramsey’s steer clear of any charges. This case will NEVER go to trial now because the killer is already dead. This case would drain Boulder financially and frankly the IQ in that town still hovers around that of the Hare Krishna’s, hippies, and college binge drinkers who reside there (those from Colorado will get what I mean).

    Perhaps it was with some hope that re-interviewing Burke Ramsey would spark some guilt in the boy for what he knows. Nine years old at the time of the crime, the kid certainly would have remembered if his sister was awake or not when they arrived home. In his original interview he stated she was. Later the story changed. He would also know about the pineapple and if that was his voice on the 911 call. I heard the original call, and I heard a boy’s voice. He asked, “What did you find”. Again, Boulder is too polite with this family. They should have drug this kid in who is now what 22? Since this is still an active and open case and given him a lie detector test. Refusal once again, would at least put pressure back on the only 2 people left in this world that know what happened to JonBenet Ramsey.

    They will have to live with that for the rest of their lives. I can’t imagine they live peacefully with this knowledge. They will continue to protect Patsy Ramsey who I believe suffered from a mental illness and killed her child in a fit of rage. I can’t imagine that John or Burke Ramsey garners any amount of real respect in this world, and the disdain for their kind is not forgotten in the people who have shown remorse and love for JonBenet Ramsey, the public.
    Nedthan, this was very well said and contains all the knowledge one needs to make an informed opinion on this case. I believe Patsy's family went along with the charade because they knew the cancer was going to take her life and they did not want her to die in prison. There are still a couple of aunts alive that should be ashamed of themselves. We here at WS have shown more love for that little girl than her own aunts. Lord, help me to never believe that my needs/wants are more important than finding the killer of a child. No, I would not want someone I love to go to prison, especially if the event happened because of an accident, but I was taught to be truthful in all things. Had they been truthful, especially in Boulder, the outcome would not have been as horrible as they (or even we) imagine. I don't think Patsy would have died in prison and at least John and Burke could hold their heads up. But the Ramseys believed they were too good for justice, JonBenet was just collateral damage.
    "This Time We Get it Right!"

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." Stuart Chase

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