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Thread: Stranger Abduction Theories #2

  1. #126
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    [QUOTE=cluciano63;5942958]I don't mean to discourage any action at all, Bern...I just thought that schools really required a record transfer these days and were pretty strict about it...

    respectfully snipped:

    You didn't discourage me Cluciano, I just always want a happy ending or at least one that can over come the evil. We had 13 homicides this year in our county and 5 of them were at the hands of a family member. I am just wishing against the odds here. But I will still send out some flyers each week just in case this old bird is still young enough to catch the worm.

  2. #127
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    I know that my sister in TX, who was following this story initially, stopped following it a while back, when all of the ugly divorce action started being made public, as she assumed that Kyron's disappearance was a parental kidnapping. Maybe other people feel the same way. And with LE keeping so quiet, it doesn't exactly help to prevent such conclusions.
    Just my opinion, of course.

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  4. #128
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    Elizabeth Smart would never have been found if people just thought she was dead and didn't bother to look at faces of young girls to see if they spotted her. Kyron could be out there, I know it doesn't look good, but we need to still keep a photo of him in our car or wallet and look when we can. A stranger may have taken him. Until they find a body, the family has to hope.

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  6. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post
    I know that my sister in TX, who was following this story initially, stopped following it a while back, when all of the ugly divorce action started being made public, as she assumed that Kyron's disappearance was a parental kidnapping. Maybe other people feel the same way. And with LE keeping so quiet, it doesn't exactly help to prevent such conclusions.
    But if it's a parental kidnapping, they'd have to be hiding him somewhere, wouldn't they? So we still need to be on the lookout.
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

  7. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post
    I doubt Kyron would be attending a school...he is old enough to say his real name, tell a teacher or someone who he is. Whoever would have him would not dare leave him in another's care for 8 hours a day, in my opinion. If he is alive, he is probably being kept inside and home-schooled, if at all. Maybe some years down the road they would relax and get careless, but I doubt it would be so, just a matter of months later. I just don't see it, but of course anything is possible.
    Again, I look to Steven Stayner. Within a short time of abducting him, Kenneth Parnell had him attending public school.

    As adults, I think we tend to assume that Kyron would know a terrible wrong had been done to him and that all he'd have to do would be tell an adult in a position of authority (police officer, teacher, doctor, etc) in order to have that wrong be reversed.

    But when I think about it, I'm not sure that assumption is correct. One thing that has boggled me from the beginning of this case is the number of people who assume that schools are safe havens. I know my schools never felt safe to me, a mixed race kid in the turmoil of the 60s civil rights strife. When something terrible did happen to me at school, I was not in the least bit surprised, I always knew that school was a dangerous place to be. I'm amazed at the number of people for whom school was apparently safe.

    Even someone twice Kyron's age when abducted, Elizabeth Smart, was unsure as to who she could trust to rescue her. It took more than an hour of persistent questioning and reassurances before she could actually admit she was Elizabeth Smart.

    I think if Kyron were abducted by someone who was kind to him at least part of the time, who told him that his parents had given him away for whatever blah-blah reason, it's likely Kyron would believe them. The manipulative abductor would tell him he had a new name and that the old name was a sad one that no one wanted to hear.

    Most kids would then start using the new name and stop using the old one unless adroitly questioned. And outside the Portland area, who would be motivated to question a little boy as to his name?

    It wouldn't take long before a manipulative abductor would have Kyron manipulated to the point where he would have no reason to tell anyone his name used to be Kyron.

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  9. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    In the case of Steven Stayner he knew his name and was told a tale that his parents didn't want him. He went to school. He could have been told that he was being taken out of the home because of TH and her behavior and his mom couldn't take him or his dad didn't want him now that they had a new baby. I just think If I send out flyers to schools, even if he is home schooled they have to let a school know about him. So maybe they will make flyers and a teachers will remember his face, or see him out somewhere. Huge long shot but if I do nothing, nothing happens.
    YOU GO!

    Can't hurt and might spark a miracle somewhere.

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  11. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post
    I don't mean to discourage any action at all, Bern...I just thought that schools really required a record transfer these days and were pretty strict about it...
    Easy to get around. Tell the school district that there had been a divorce, parent making a new beginning, child had been homeschooled by other parent.

    It's easy enough to buy a fake ID or to make a fake birth certificate on a home computer. So many people divorce these days, so many people move these days, so many people being forced to start over by the recession, someone with a story like that would just be one of a crowd of people with similar stories.

    Somehow I also think kids are more savvy these days than 20 years ago, and less likely to believe stories about parents not wanting them...I could be wrong there, but with Tony as Kyron's stepdad, I guess I give extra credit there, that he has heard most of the stranger/danger things that are out there.
    But studies have shown repeatedly how easy it is for a manipulative person to subvert "stranger danger" training. There's several TV clips out there showing parents asserting with total confidence that their child understands stranger danger, then showing that child merrily going off with a stranger.

    I think it's possible that Kyron could be more inclined to believe that none of his parents want him because he was already doing the house to house shuffle. No doubt there were times in the past when visitation plans were disrupted for good reason; if he were told that the abductor was taking care of him because visitation plans had been disrupted, all Kyron's life experience would tell him that was a reasonable explanation.

    I would love to believe that Kyron is being taken care of at least, if not happy and well, but it is very difficult. I don't think Terri would forfeit her own child just to make Kyron go away...once she saw what she was losing I think she would have "reappeared" him in some way or other. I believe her plan, if she had one, was to end up alone with the baby, not pay a price (which she is) for Kyron vanishing.
    I agree a nonfamily abduction where Kyron is being held alive is a long shot. It's not an impossibility, though, as a handful of cases have shown.

    IF TMH is completely innocent in this or was an unknowing accomplice (for instance, by attracting someone via her Facebook postings), she is probably terrified. I know I would feel like I had dropped into a new universe where none of my previous assumptions about my stepchild, my husband, my friends, etc, held true.

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  13. #133
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    I wonder if anyone here knows a way to get email addresses of elementary schools because it would be so much easier than snail mail. There has to be some kind of list or a place to request one. I think of people who sell supplies to schools or food and they probably have a master list and spam them. A stranger wanting to keep Kryon would have to keep him in fear, but to blend in a community with a child, he has to either be home schooled or be in school. Also teachers are around kids, they are alert to certain signs they give off, so I am hoping they will copy the poster, look at it and watch for him in and out of a school setting.

  14. #134
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    I ordered the new book that came out in April 2010 about Steven Stayner, "From Victim To Hero" it came yesterday. The book came out 20 years to the day he died, and Timothy White died two weeks before it came out, how sad. I didn't know anything about this case, except Kyron and Steven were seven when they went missing and one was taken from school, the other on the way home. I hope for Kyron's sake, this is not what happened to him, but if so, it means he could be alive and living not far from where he was taken. SO don't always have means to get a kid out of state, so there is a chance he is living as close at Steven was, like maybe 45 - 50 miles away. I still can't get the time-line to fit with TH having time to kill, and dispose of a body and leave no clues behind with a baby on board, so until they find a body, I have hope Kyron is living somewhere out there.

    Have to send out flyers closer to PDX.....

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  16. #135
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    Hi Bern, I just wanted to chime in here with a little info based on my own experiences.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Kyron is being moved from one county to another. (If he is still alive, God bless him and keep him.) These people manage to stay one step ahead of the system. I know this from my teaching days. Sometimes we would receive a student's record's from one school, then the student would transfer, then we would receive another set of records from a subsequent school and on and on. Oh and many times the students would return to the school for a short amount of time because daddy was in town working. So, they do stay in the same area but will move around between county to county to stay ahead of the game. Once they receive a letter from the school asking for specifics, they up and move before SS gets involved....and the cycle starts over again.

    Kudos to you for being a champion for Kyron! Thank you for all you do.

    wm
    ...and be sure your sin will find you out.

    Numbers,32:23

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  18. #136
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    Bless your hearts for being so optimistic that Kyron is in school somewhere...I wish I could feel the same.
    Just my opinion, of course.

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  20. #137
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    Thanks guys. The more I read this book the more I think of Kyron. This is a hard read, so if you don't have a stomach for it, don't read it. I feel like crying with each chapter and I hope this is not his fate. I see how he kept control of him and why a child would just go into a deep depression and not tell anyone what had happened. He was enrolled in school within a month of getting him. But as WM stated, he puts off the school records with excuses and then it gets dropped for now. Only on chapter 3 or 4.

    I was sent to live with an Aunt at age 8. I attended Catholic School and we paid for bus service. My aunt lived close enough to the school so I walked home. About 6 months in, a nun who was in charge of monies for bus payments calls me to her class room to ask why I hadn't paid my bus dues. Yes, they asked the child in front of the class.... anyway, I told her I was living with my Aunt and didn't ride the bus anymore. She ask me how long I had been there and why I hadn't said anything? I lived there at that time 6 months and never said a word to anyone. Why would I? I was depressed, my mom was in a "Place to get better", and I had to move out and leave my home. I never told anyone except one girl that lived by my aunt and she walked home with me. I didn't tell her why I was there though, just I had to move in with my Aunt and Uncle because my mom was sick.

    I see why it is so important to the family to stating he is alive or stashed, without hope, without people looking, or at least helping to look, he could be lost forever. I have to give him the benefit of the doubt that TH passed him off to someone or someone took him. To believe he is dead, could be a fate worse than death if he is with a sicko.

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  22. #138
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    I do think you have some points, Bern, but times have changed so much just in the years since Stephen that I think it is harder to get into a school without records, etc...may be easier to change an identity but I have doubts as to whether would Kyron, if alive, would be in any public place like a school this "soon" after being taken, JMO.
    Just my opinion, of course.

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  24. #139
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    Maybe I am a bit over optimistic, but people get ID's faked, they could even fake records if they wanted too. He was only in second grade, so fake one yr, or just put them off and then change schools and now you have records from the one you just left, do it a few times and now you are set. that is what Ken P did with Steven. I also think people don't always follow up on things, paperwork gets lost, falls though the cracks and who knows, they get lucky. It has been 6 months and he could be any where by now, even dead, but they haven't found a body and that gives them hope. I do believe in miracles and I am holding Kyron up for one.

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  26. #140
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    Why bother enrolling a kidnapped kid in school at all? Home schooling is very popular. Just keep the child inside all the time and who would know?
    Justice is the constant and perpetual will to allot to every man his due. Domitus Ulpian

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  28. #141
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    I don't have kids at home, but my neighbor has a boy, 16 that is home schooled. He has been for the last 2 yrs. I understand that he has certain guidelines to follow to get his diploma, and the school knows he is home schooled. I think (but not sure) that the program has to coordinate with the school he was last attending, but I may be wrong. In any case, FL is supposed to check up on these kids and what progress they make. I don't know if it is done, or what is required but she has to keep a progress folder and all his test results and grades in case someone would decide to check on him at home. But if the child moves into a trailer park, with a single dad who would question him being home schooled? Maybe no one. I am still sending out flyers, it cost a few cents in stamps and some paper and ink. Makes me feel like I am doing something to help. Nothing is going on with the case, no news of any kind and no one is talking, so maybe a few flyers will help out on the East Coast. Noting is impossible, just some things are more likely than others!

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  30. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post
    I do think you have some points, Bern, but times have changed so much just in the years since Stephen that I think it is harder to get into a school without records, etc...may be easier to change an identity but I have doubts as to whether would Kyron, if alive, would be in any public place like a school this "soon" after being taken, JMO.
    I live in a rural area, where some farm tasks are commonly done by migrant workers. The parents often know that education is the way out for their kids, so they enroll them in whatever school they can for however long they can stay in the area. Those parents are doing the best they can with the resources that are available to them.

    The local school (K-8) gets kids who have records from 15+ different schools.

    I still think it would be simple to make up a set of homeschooling records, for that matter. I know someone who homeschooled her kids until they were ready for 9th grade. As they reached that age and decided they wanted to go to high school, she would enroll them in the local school. She showed the local school her records of educational levels achieved in various subjects, her kids would go through standardised testing to make sure they were educationally ready for 9th grade and that was it.

    I imagine there are significant local variations in how difficult it is to enroll a child in school. Areas without migrant workers and states that discourage homeschooling are probably more likely to scrutinize school records than areas where there is a sizable population of kids moving in and out of school.

  31. #143
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    I finished the book this morning and I cried at the end. Actully I cried though out the book, as it really tells what the whole family goes though and what Steven endured and the readjustment into his home and school, it was hard for all. But the one school he was in, had a flyer, but it never got put up and no one knew it was him. I just feel like if Kyron is in this situation, it is possible he is in school, and no one realizes it is him. If a stranger would take him, he would have to have a job to support him and Kyron, unless he has unlimited funds and then why do this? If a stranger took him or TH gave him to a underground group or something like that, a person still has to work. Kryon would have to be with someone or be in school. The child is so scared or convinced that they are with this person for a reason, that they comply and don't tell what is going on. After awhile they can be "trusted" to have friends, go to school, be without the kidnapper all the time. Sean Horbeck was also like Steven where he had friends and went out after a period of time. I think it is important to at least consider the idea that Kyron is out there and maybe after 6 months able to be in school and not say a word as to what is going on. I am trying to keep an open mind about this, because I just feel it is a possibility.

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  33. #144
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    I think the kidnapper would be taking a huge risk by having Kyron in school. All it would take would be for one parent or faculty member to watch an episode of NG or read an article in People about Kyron and then realize that Kyron is the new kid at school. Also, whenever someone is new, the teachers always ask them to share a little bit about themselves. The kidnapper would have to get Kyron to memorize and repeat some fraudulent story about himself and can he really trust a 7-year-old to not mess up?

  34. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye View Post
    I think the kidnapper would be taking a huge risk by having Kyron in school. All it would take would be for one parent or faculty member to watch an episode of NG or read an article in People about Kyron and then realize that Kyron is the new kid at school. Also, whenever someone is new, the teachers always ask them to share a little bit about themselves. The kidnapper would have to get Kyron to memorize and repeat some fraudulent story about himself and can he really trust a 7-year-old to not mess up?
    "I'll kill your parents/ little sister/ dog if you tell the truth" yeah, I can expect a 7 year old not to mess up. Brain washing doesn't really take that long, especially for someone that was being taught to listen to adults.
    Moo, moo, moo...I moo but don't call me a cow!

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  36. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    I finished the book this morning and I cried at the end. Actully I cried though out the book, as it really tells what the whole family goes though and what Steven endured and the readjustment into his home and school, it was hard for all. But the one school he was in, had a flyer, but it never got put up and no one knew it was him. I just feel like if Kyron is in this situation, it is possible he is in school, and no one realizes it is him. If a stranger would take him, he would have to have a job to support him and Kyron, unless he has unlimited funds and then why do this? If a stranger took him or TH gave him to a underground group or something like that, a person still has to work. Kryon would have to be with someone or be in school. The child is so scared or convinced that they are with this person for a reason, that they comply and don't tell what is going on. After awhile they can be "trusted" to have friends, go to school, be without the kidnapper all the time. Sean Horbeck was also like Steven where he had friends and went out after a period of time. I think it is important to at least consider the idea that Kyron is out there and maybe after 6 months able to be in school and not say a word as to what is going on. I am trying to keep an open mind about this, because I just feel it is a possibility.
    I heard an interview some years back with a woman who was one of Steven Stayner's friends while he was being held. She said that her impression of the situation was that Steven's family was strict but she never dreamed he'd been abducted or abused.

    Of course, she was only ten years old at the time. Still, Steven was allowed to go over to her house on occasion and her parents never saw anything suspicious either.

    Other long term abductors have also let their captives interact with the public. For instance, Jaycee Dugard was basically acting as a clerk in Garrido's printing business, had access to email as part of her business duties, used the phone, etc.

    I think the key would be for the captor to convince Kyron that the situation was normal, that he was supposed to be there, etc. Seven to eight year olds are still in the developmental stage where they are prone to magical thinking and are not always clear on the difference between reality and fantasy. They don't have enough life experience to know when they're being told something highly unlikely, such as "I was lonely and wanted a little boy to live with me, so your parents decided to give you to me. They want you to be good and to be helpful and to do what I tell you to do."

    There was, BTW, a case quite a few years ago where a boy was abducted by a mentally challenged man specifically to help his mother (the abductor's mother) around the house. As in the case of Steven Staynor, that boy was allowed out of the house and to have friends pretty quickly. He just accepted that what these adults told him was the truth.

    Back in the beginning when there were sightings of Kyron being reported from all over, I remember not feeling surprised because to me, he had sort of a generic boy look. Whenever I go to the store, I see little boys much like Kyron: short hair, slight build, permanent teeth growing in, etc. Put a pair of rectangular wire rims on them, cut their hair short, put them in a slightly oversized CSI T-shirt and I think they'd look a lot like Kyron.

    Just the fact that his teeth were clearly in the process of growing in would change his look fairly quickly. As his teeth finished growing in, his face would look longer because his jaws would be a tiny bit further apart.

    Add that to changing his hair and changing the type of glasses he wears and I think he could be unrecognisable to most people.

    Yes, there would be some risk involved but if this was in any way a premeditated crime, the perpetrator is clearly not averse to taking risks.

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  38. #147
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    Thanks for the post, I feel this is entirely possible with Kyron's situation. I don't know if we have a thread that would detail TH and time frame so we could reenact how she would have killed him and disposed of the body and be the only one involved. I tried to do this with the maps, the drive to the drugstores, with the baby, meet someone at the next one and chat and show a picture of Kryon all the while I either had him in the trunk or killed him as I drove the car. I just have it in my head for some reason, the whole thing feels so tight, that she may have just arranged to have him taken from the school. If that is the case, what would these people do and how do they do it? Steven's book really made me think more on the lines of a stranger/ arranged kidnapping. I want to know or envision how this would play out and what is the most likely place he would be if this is the case. Would they live in the state, or just far enough out that no one would notice them? Here we have areas, that are so bad, I pray a child doesn't live in one of those trailers. Some day I will take some photos and you will be shocked at how people live, just off the highway, down in the woods, no neighbors near by, in such poverty it it heart wrenching. But think of a child living there, would anyone notice it?

  39. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    Thanks for the post, I feel this is entirely possible with Kyron's situation. I don't know if we have a thread that would detail TH and time frame so we could reenact how she would have killed him and disposed of the body and be the only one involved. I tried to do this with the maps, the drive to the drugstores, with the baby, meet someone at the next one and chat and show a picture of Kryon all the while I either had him in the trunk or killed him as I drove the car. I just have it in my head for some reason, the whole thing feels so tight, that she may have just arranged to have him taken from the school. If that is the case, what would these people do and how do they do it? Steven's book really made me think more on the lines of a stranger/ arranged kidnapping. I want to know or envision how this would play out and what is the most likely place he would be if this is the case. Would they live in the state, or just far enough out that no one would notice them? Here we have areas, that are so bad, I pray a child doesn't live in one of those trailers. Some day I will take some photos and you will be shocked at how people live, just off the highway, down in the woods, no neighbors near by, in such poverty it it heart wrenching. But think of a child living there, would anyone notice it?
    Absolutely, and Kyron could be hidden, just like Jaycee Dugard was for 18 years of her life. Until LE comes forward with something that says Kyron is NOT alive, I will not give up hope and none of us should quit looking. Think of how many people in Phillip & Nancy Garrido's neighborhood, sat at breakfast and looked at a milk carton that had a picture of a missing little girl on it that unknowingly was the same little girl in their neighbor's backyard. It's heartbreaking.

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  41. #149
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    I see little boys ALL THE TIME that I think look like Kyron. I do a double take about once a week. Skinny little 8 year old with glasses, not hard to come by.

    But he defnitely has a magic that is all his own.

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  43. #150
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    This “excerpt” (it is not, according to the intro, the entire transcript) of an Oregonian interview with Staton published on July 2nd, is IMO worth a re-read. This hit the MSM between the time Kaine vacated his home and the July 4th article by Maxine Bernstein revealing the alleged MFH. A re-hash of this interview six months later might make for an interesting “new” thread. But, in the meantime, the interview addresses MCSO’s investigation of predators. It’s, mostly, “I can’t comment on that.” However, thought I’d throw it out here for review.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...ation_tra.html

    (beginning of snip)
    Jung: "Has there been an effort to look at sexual predators in the area or have you called that off?"

    Staton: "Helen, that's kind of a ridiculous question."

    Jung: "Why is that a ridiculous question?

    Staton: "I think you kind of have an answer to that already in your own mind."

    Jung: "OK, well —"

    Staton: "Why would any investigator not look at every aspect? When we bring in our investigators, we're bringing in investigators that are child abuse experts, they're homicide experts, they're experts in abduction — they're experts across the board. They start outlining what the plan's going to be and we're going to look here, here, here, here and here, and they gather all of the sources and information."

    Jung: "And are they still doing that?"

    Staton: "Obviously."

    Jung: "In terms of looking at sexual predators right in the area?"

    Staton: "That I can't comment on. But what I can say is when we employ investigators in this type of an investigation, not knowing and not having any direction as to what actually happened, you're bringing in experts from every category to start building the plan of what we're going to do and how we're going to do it."

    Jung: "Have they interviewed sexual predators in the area?"

    Staton: "I can't comment on that."

    Jung: "And can you say whether they've ruled them out?"

    Staton: "I can't comment on that."

    (end snip)

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