View Poll Results: Did Patsy write the ransom note?

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  • Yes, Patsy wrote the note

    289 91.17%
  • No, Patsy did not write the note

    28 8.83%
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Thread: The ransom note & Patsy Ramsey, letter by letter.

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    "However, the pair (Leibman and Wong) said they do not know whether the unrehearsed samples were actually written by Patsy Ramsey."
    That article is from 1997, 4 years later at the deposition for the civil trial the sources were confirmed as per my post #113
    This time we get it right

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  3. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    Thats nothing. They could've handed her her own actual exemplars. That doesn't mean the a-z list on this thread is really from PR.

    There IS a sourcing problem here. Cynic cant demonstrate the documents from which these letters came. At least the tabloid pages of PR's exemplars are a document. See what I mean? Probably not, because you LIKE WHAT YOU HEAR so long as its RDI.
    They were available to Cina Wong, that's what matters.
    This time we get it right

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  5. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    That article is from 1997, 4 years later at the deposition for the civil trial the sources were confirmed as per my post #113
    You've no idea what was confirmed, and you cant demonstrate what was confirmed if anything. There's a sourcing problem here and I cant help it if you're unwilling to admit it.

    Now kindly tell me where the lower case 'p' came from with the squared corners. Was it pre-murder? Post murder? Right hand or left hand exemplar? Do you have the source document link???????????????????

  6. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    That's nothing. They could've handed her her own actual exemplars. That doesn't mean the a-z list on this thread is really from PR.
    You're really reaching, HOTYH, you know that? Nothing, my a**.

    There IS a sourcing problem here. Cynic can't demonstrate the documents from which these letters came.
    I believe he just DID!

    At least the tabloid pages of PR's exemplars are a document. See what I mean? Probably not, because you LIKE WHAT YOU HEAR so long as its RDI.
    Boy, am I SICK of hearing that! I've been a good sport up to now, but even my tolerance has limits.
    All posts made by me are MY exclusive property, and are NOT to be used or reproduced without my permission. DAVE SMASH THIEVES!

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  8. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Boy, am I SICK of hearing that! I've been a good sport up to now, but even my tolerance has limits.
    Sorry but this a-z list is bunk and I believe you readily chimed in.

    Cina Wong was never given documents verbatim of PR's exemplars by the Boulder Police Dept. investigating the murder. Cynic cant demonstrate the source for the a-z characters. It seems to have been thru third party lawyers representing others, and the source is questioned.
    Last edited by Holdontoyourhat; 12-22-2010 at 12:01 AM.

  9. #131
    The Michael Kane interview with Patsy was interesting reading.

    Did you know that Burke's "Friday Folder" was HANDWRITTEN by Patsy before JonBenet's death...then TYPED by Patsy after JonBenet's death.
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

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  11. #132
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    If the Ramseys believe an intruder broke in and killed their daughter then of course the killer and the ransom note writer are the same person. I dont think thats an incriminating or strange thing for Patsy to say.

  12. #133
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    Closed due to total rudeness. I'll let Tricia review before I open this thread again.
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  14. #134
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    I'm going to open this up because Tricia has been VERY busy as of late and I had a request to open it again.

    If I see any more snarky posts from this point on, I'm going to put the offenders on a time out and Tricia can remove it when she gets back. That could be a long time, so behave yourselves!!!
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  16. #135
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    I'd like to thank you for reopening this thread.
    You have to remember, beneath the heated arguing and rudeness, our arguments all have good intentions.
    Happy New Year to all.

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  18. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderllama View Post
    I'd like to thank you for reopening this thread.
    You have to remember, beneath the heated arguing and rudeness, our arguments all have good intentions.
    Happy New Year to all.
    I hope so!

    And Happy New Year to you all as well.
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  20. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderllama View Post
    I'd like to thank you for reopening this thread.
    You have to remember, beneath the heated arguing and rudeness, our arguments all have good intentions.
    Happy New Year to all.


    I love you wonder!!!!!!


    Thank you Kimster.....
    There are things that we don't want to happen but have to accept, things we don't want to know but have to learn, and people we can't live without but have to let go.

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  22. #138
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    Hey, Beck! Do you think I should???
    All posts made by me are MY exclusive property, and are NOT to be used or reproduced without my permission. DAVE SMASH THIEVES!

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  24. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    hey, beck! do you think i should???
    absolutely!
    "This Time We Get it Right!"

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." Stuart Chase

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  26. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
    absolutely!
    All right!

    As an author, I have access to certain things. Recently, I contact Cina Wong herself to see if she had any statements she wanted to make for publication.

    Sadly, she couldn't give me too many specifics due to legal issues. (And I think we ALL know who I mean when I say that!) BUT, she was able to tell me that HOTYH's assertion is nonsense. Since it's already public knowledge, I can't possibly get her into any trouble. So I'll quote you what she told me:

    I was not aware of the claims that the samples of Patsy's writing I examined were questionable. The samples I examined came right from Patsy's attorney (Lin Wood) as part of the discovery process in the Chris Wolf matter. So basically, Wolf's atty, Darnay Hoffman, sent a legal request to Lin Wood to turn over know (verifiable) handwritten samples of Patsy and John Ramsey. Then Lin Wood provided the requested handwriting samples to Mr. Hoffman. The known handwriting samples of John's and Patsy's that I had examined, were the same set of samples that Gideon Epstein, Lloyd Cunningham and Howard Riles had. Hope that helps to answer your question.


    That pretty much confirms what was said in the deposition quote.

    Just thought folks would want to know!
    All posts made by me are MY exclusive property, and are NOT to be used or reproduced without my permission. DAVE SMASH THIEVES!

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  28. #141
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    WOW Dave, and that's putting it mildly!!
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  30. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    All right!

    As an author, I have access to certain things. Recently, I contact Cina Wong herself to see if she had any statements she wanted to make for publication.

    Sadly, she couldn't give me too many specifics due to legal issues. (And I think we ALL know who I mean when I say that!) BUT, she was able to tell me that HOTYH's assertion is nonsense. Since it's already public knowledge, I can't possibly get her into any trouble. So I'll quote you what she told me:

    I was not aware of the claims that the samples of Patsy's writing I examined were questionable. The samples I examined came right from Patsy's attorney (Lin Wood) as part of the discovery process in the Chris Wolf matter. So basically, Wolf's atty, Darnay Hoffman, sent a legal request to Lin Wood to turn over know (verifiable) handwritten samples of Patsy and John Ramsey. Then Lin Wood provided the requested handwriting samples to Mr. Hoffman. The known handwriting samples of John's and Patsy's that I had examined, were the same set of samples that Gideon Epstein, Lloyd Cunningham and Howard Riles had. Hope that helps to answer your question.


    That pretty much confirms what was said in the deposition quote.

    Just thought folks would want to know!
    "I was not aware of the claims that the samples of Patsy's writing I examined were questionable."

    CW saying she's not aware of sourcing claims isn't the same as CW saying the handwriting is confirmed to be that of PR. She alledgedly says she got them thru Wolf's attorney, not 'right from Patsys attorney,' and not from the BPD as part of a sanctioned study.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    BUT, she was able to tell me that HOTYH's assertion is nonsense.
    Really? How so? I didn't read that anywhere so this seems to be simply your interpretation of other stuff she said. Where does she state that the a-z list is written by PR, and from what document did that squared off 'p' in the list originate? Pre-murder? Post-murder? Right or left hand?

    If you dont know what document these letters came from then you've got nothing.

    Keep trying SD. I'd love to know what document that 'p' came from, but I know thats asking too much. I suppose that document is kept in the same place the oversize underwear autopsy photo, and the JR shirt fiber expert testimony. All these things RDI claims to exist but cant quite prove.
    Last edited by Holdontoyourhat; 12-31-2010 at 03:19 PM.

  31. #143
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    Wow, someone seems to be protesting WAY too much. Wonder why that would be?


    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    "I was not aware of the claims that the samples of Patsy's writing I examined were questionable."

    CW saying she's not aware of claims isn't the same as CW saying the handwriting is confirmed to be that of PR. She alledgedly says she got them thru Wolf's attorney, not 'right from Lin Wood,' and not from the BPD.



    "BUT, she was able to tell me that HOTYH's assertion is nonsense." Really? How so? This seems to be simply your interpretation of other stuff she said. Where does she state that the a-z list is written by PR, and where did that squared off 'p' in the list originate? Pre-murder? Post-murder? Right or left hand?

    If you dont know what document these letters came from then you've got nothing.

    Keep trying SD. I'd love to know what document that 'p' came from, but I know thats asking too much.
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  33. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunnieRN View Post
    Wow, someone seems to be protesting WAY too much. Wonder why that would be?

    Makes me think of a couple who were in the house that night. Deny, deny, deny. Also makes me think of your Madagascar reference. Smile and wave, boys, smile and wave!
    "This Time We Get it Right!"

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
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  35. #145
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    Thank you, Dave. Straight from the horse's mouth, how can anyone argue with that?
    "This Time We Get it Right!"

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." Stuart Chase

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  37. #146
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    Can someone explain the current topic in here please?
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  39. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimster View Post
    Can someone explain the current topic in here please?
    Sure, I will be happy to give it a try Kimster. There is an expert that looked at Patsys writing, Wong, and she gave an opinion concerning the ransom note. Hotyh refuted her findings, stating a very old and obviously now, incorrect source. Super Dave is trying to clear it up for him. Dave could provide you with additional information, as well as Hotyh's signature line.
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  41. #148
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    Thank you for explaining, Sunnie.

    Tell you what, let's not make one-liner statements that sound like someone is getting ganged up on. If someone won't let something go that appears to be fact in your mind, try using the ignore button or the alert feature.
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  43. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
    Thank you, Dave. Straight from the horse's mouth, how can anyone argue with that?

    Oh Silly Beck, you know team IDI is going to find something to argue about.

    The whole crime could have been caught on tape and turned into an HBO special. Including interviews with the Rs in prison orange, talking about what happened that night. You would still get an argument.....

    They were framed.... The MAAM made them do it...... LE lied and tricked them into confessing..... On and on and on we go. Where it stops nobody knows.......
    There are things that we don't want to happen but have to accept, things we don't want to know but have to learn, and people we can't live without but have to let go.

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  45. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    "I was not aware of the claims that the samples of Patsy's writing I examined were questionable."

    CW saying she's not aware of sourcing claims isn't the same as CW saying the handwriting is confirmed to be that of PR.
    HOTYH, give it up, brother. Are you actually trying to claim that Lin Wood lied in court and supplied handwriting from someone he KNEW was from someone else? Because that's sure what it sounds like!

    She allegedly says she got them thru Wolf's attorney, not 'right from Patsys attorney,' and not from the BPD as part of a sanctioned study.
    I'm totally confused, HOTYH. What exactly are you trying to say here? What are you implying went on?

    Really? How so? I didn't read that anywhere so this seems to be simply your interpretation of other stuff she said.
    Oh, excuse me! You've claimed for a while now that Cina Wong made those comparison charts without knowing if the samples she used were really from PR or not. Now, when information surfaces that she used samples that were verified by PR's own lawyer as having belonging to her, I don't know what you're doing.

    Where does she state that the a-z list is written by PR, and from what document did that squared off 'p' in the list originate? Pre-murder? Post-murder? Right or left hand? If you dont know what document these letters came from then you've got nothing.
    Well, I'll ask, but don't expect any miracles. She's very limited in what she can say due to legal issues. We've got your friend Lin Wood to thank for that. She was quite clear on THAT point! I don't want to get anybody into trouble.

    Keep trying SD.
    You know I will!

    I'd love to know what document that 'p' came from, but I know that's asking too much.
    Maybe it is. We should know soon.

    I suppose that document is kept in the same place the oversize underwear autopsy photo, and the JR shirt fiber expert testimony.
    Quite possibly, it is! I imagine there are a LOT of interesting things kept in that file. If we could just get our hands on it!
    Last edited by SuperDave; 12-31-2010 at 04:07 PM.
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