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Thread: MI- Tanner Lucas, Alexander William, & Andrew Ryan Skelton, Morenci, 26 Nov 2010 - #6

  1. #476
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    FYI: Michigan does not have the death penalty. Life in prison without parole is the best that can be expected in a triple homicide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Mist View Post
    <snips>

    Weeks said the boys' father, John Skelton, who is facing kidnapping charges in their disappearance, gave misinformation to investigators.

    He said Skelton told police the boys are with a group called the United Foster Outreach and Underground Sanctuaries -- a group Weeks said investigators have not been able to confirm exists.
    ..............
    Weeks said he wanted to make this news public so that when farmers go back to their fields in the spring and campers head to campgounds, they are aware that the boys -- Andrew, Alexander and Tanner, ages 9, 7 and 5 -- may still be out there.


    more here

    http://www.freep.com/article/2011020...-investigation

    Breaking this down in my head...so frustratingly little to go on in this case, so forgive me if it's way out there...

    Quite an unusual name: United Foster Outreach Underground Sanctuaries

    It's a little redundant and confusing, no? Obviously it implies more than one location, "underground" is a buzzword JS probably heard before and thought made sense. I can even see "sanctuaries." And again, "united" implies a unity, a network, a plurality. "foster" home is kind of similar to "sanctuary" And "outreach" in this context makes no sense at all. Evangelicals use the term "outreach" frequently, was he meaning to imply a connection with a church ministry?

    JS has proved to be not entirely stupid and I think he thinks he's smarter than everyone, including LE. So that got me thinking. In other crimes perpetrators have used "clues" to try to toy with police. Is he sending some kind of message with this complicated name? He certainly has had plenty of time to think about it, are you telling me this is the best he could come up with?

    Consider these possible interpretations:

    United Foster Outreach Underground Sanctuaries - U FOUnd uS. Is he laughing to himself because the police have already searched the area where the boys are?

    Could also be United Foster Outreach Underground Sanctuaries - U FOUnd Sanctuaries...possibly the same meaning, or maybe trying to convince himself that the boys have found sanctuary, i.e. what he did was right.

    Like I said, out there, I know, but I think he chose those words carefully.

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    Also....outreach, sanctuaries = both could be religious references....could they be buried near an old church? I think there are several such old/abandoned properties in the wider search area (MI/OH). I heard a report at one time that he said he gave them teddy bears and a sheet, which if true would be signs of remorse or trying to appear remorseful...possibly putting them near a place like a church where God could "watch over them" might be in that line of thinking?

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    Or "Underground" simply meaning just that
    Just my opinion, of course.

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    Exactly cluciano...I read somewhere where he said he thought they were amish or mennonite or something....not to many Amish in that area that I'm aware of, Amish are more in Eastern side of Ohio. But I googled Mennonite churches in a wide area of Morenci, and lo and behold, there is only one in Morenci, and one a few miles west, but the area where the Mennonites seem to be concentrated is the area around the turnpike just east of West Unity Ohio (which was a main part of the LE search area in OH.!) Wonder if West Unity area was settled by Mennonites...what about the similar "Unity" and "United"....somebody stop me if I'm a runaway train, but does anyone else think it's worth a thought?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes View Post
    FYI: Michigan does not have the death penalty. Life in prison without parole is the best that can be expected in a triple homicide.
    Does it make a difference if the scene of the crime was in Ohio? I hope it does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post
    Or "Underground" simply meaning just that
    This was the first thing that came to my mind also.

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    Hmmm....

    http://www.adriel.org/

    Originally this was a Mennonite home for orphans, now an organization that helps abused children very, very close to OH search area, and right on their website it says they do foster care.....was this what JS meant? If so, did he mean it because the kids are near there, or as a red herring?

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    JenRen, I believe it would make a difference if LE could prove the boys were transported to or through OH during the commission of a crime. One of our lawyer posters can weigh in but I think that crossing state lines automatically means the feds can make it a federal case in which case the death penalty can apply. Probably, JS knows this. I think part of him wants to tell so he can dash that last bit of hope TS has. I think the other part of him has since been told that if they are recovered in OH, DP is fair play.

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  18. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenRen View Post
    Does it make a difference if the scene of the crime was in Ohio? I hope it does.
    Ohio does have DP, so if it's determined that the boys were taken across state lines and possibly murdered there, I suppose JS could be shipped back to Ohio.

    I wish he'd stop playing games and tell where those boys are or what he did with/to them. jmo

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    Irish Eyes, did a little looking at the map for the Adriel place.
    the second location-22450 C.R. F, Archbold, OH 43502
    is only 20 miles or 30 mins from Morenci.

    (Oddly enough there is a town west of there called West UNITY..again 20 miles or 30 mins from Morenci.)

    Also there is the Goll Woods Nature Preserve- app.3 miles dues west of the Adriel location
    http://dnr.state.oh.us/dnap/location...2/Default.aspx

    to get to the Adriel location, one route takes you close to/ through the Tiffin River Wilderness Area
    http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/wild...8/Default.aspx

    I wonder if LE has considered searching these two areas. I am thinking sanctuaries could possibly refer to wildlife preserves places.
    And if the Oak Grove Cemntery and Riverside Park northside of Morenci were well searched.

    Is JS trying to say something , without saying it direct?? Do make me wonder- he is a sly one.

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    It could be a deliberate reference or it could also be a slip of the tongue, kind of a Freudian slip.

    When I first heard underground sanctuaries, I thought of a cave. Old stories used to talk about caves being used to live, camp and take shelter in. They were also sometimes used as churches, and people have used them as hideouts.

    It could also be a crypt. They are found near churches, churches are often called sanctuaries. But those are usually locked or sealed in some way.

    Could be an abandoned church with a basement, cellar or even a crawlspace.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish_Eyes View Post
    Hmmm....

    http://www.adriel.org/

    Originally this was a Mennonite home for orphans, now an organization that helps abused children very, very close to OH search area, and right on their website it says they do foster care.....was this what JS meant? If so, did he mean it because the kids are near there, or as a red herring?
    Good find! Would you consider calling this in as a tip? Just on the off chance that the children are alive. Even if they believe the children aren't alive, it could mean something as far as a search area.

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    and by golly one of these days a tip is gonna stick like tar on a road

    I need to go back and see what time frame LE seemed to have...so much time has passed and other missing all jumbled...
    anyone recall the pings & time frame right off had without heavy searching??

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    My personal feeling on theses sanctuaries ... they are typically meant to protect children from bad circumstances. Any organization which legitimately tries to help protect children would surely contact police once murder charges are leveled ...

    The Amish angle makes a little more sense from a purely circumstantial perspective as they wouldn't have access to thing like TV or Internet to learn about the case ... but from everything I know about the Amish this would be very contradictory to their beliefs. I camp around them often in Indiana and have had good discussions about their religion.

    The Mormons? It's a mainstream Christian religion - one of the main articles of faith is about honoring and sustaining the law, and their main focus is on the importance of the family. A member would be excommunicated for doing something like this. It's a very centralized church, with leadership in Utah - so individual church buildings are all in step with one another, every Mormon church accross the world follows the same handbooks of instruction, teaches the same lessons each week, and tunes in bi-annually for worldwide conferences. There are regional counseling services (LDS Family Services) in most areas which provide counseling for families and foster\adoption services. They have buildings and offices, don't operate out of truck stops. It is not likely that there would be errant Mormon church structures out there running vigilante child rescue operations.

    I don't know as much about Mennonites but I find it incredibly hard to believe any of these groups would be involved in something like this. And lump summing Amish and Mennonites with Mormons shows how little he knows about the religions as they are very different. He's just looking for names of mysterious religions.

    As far as reading into his wording, that's all very interesting. While I think it's unlikely a mainstream organization like Adriel would be harboring the kids, you're potentially right it could be more about the physical location. Very interesting train of thought ...

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  29. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by sreshowtime View Post
    Irish Eyes, did a little looking at the map for the Adriel place.
    the second location-22450 C.R. F, Archbold, OH 43502
    is only 20 miles or 30 mins from Morenci.

    (Oddly enough there is a town west of there called West UNITY..again 20 miles or 30 mins from Morenci.)

    Also there is the Goll Woods Nature Preserve- app.3 miles dues west of the Adriel location
    http://dnr.state.oh.us/dnap/location...2/Default.aspx

    to get to the Adriel location, one route takes you close to/ through the Tiffin River Wilderness Area
    http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Home/wild...8/Default.aspx

    I wonder if LE has considered searching these two areas. I am thinking sanctuaries could possibly refer to wildlife preserves places.
    And if the Oak Grove Cemntery and Riverside Park northside of Morenci were well searched.

    Is JS trying to say something , without saying it direct?? Do make me wonder- he is a sly one.
    I also suggested Goll Woods back in Thread 1 (or 2) post #167 There is an old old cemetary there and the Tiffin River flows right through the woods along the road. I thought about the outhouses there for some reason.

    RTH
    A jury doesn't declare you innocent, they only say that you are "guilty" or "not guilty".

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  31. #492
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    Amish / Mennonite History in Fulton County Ohio

    http://www.gameo.org/encyclopedia/co...ounty_ohio_usa

    Lots of good info here.

    Cheers!

    Redtailhawk
    A jury doesn't declare you innocent, they only say that you are "guilty" or "not guilty".

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    thx for that info Redtail...I knew that Goll place rang a bell.
    been busy with RL but thinking constantly of this case- gotta go back and see those pings/locations of original searches., and the original time frame he was working within.

    Blazelet- yeah I keep wondering if actual clues lie within statements he has made. I have a hard time thinking the boys could actually be with a religious group- I would imagine such a group would want to work with authorities in order to sort through allegations, for the good of the boys.
    IMO he is a lot smarter than realized, even though the whole act is unbearably selfish and sadistic.

    I hope the TS family is thinking long and hard about places he may have mentioned. I wonder if there is anyway to get info as to where his trucking routes took him, in that last few months he was working.
    ahh I fear the boys are gone, but they deserve to be found regardless...

    Keepinghope- wondering if you ever heard who supposedly took JS to the hospital? Was the family ever told who, and was that person thoroughly checked out...
    And I don't recall the time he was checked in.
    so much to think on

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  35. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by sreshowtime View Post
    Irish Eyes, did a little looking at the map for the Adriel place.
    the second location-22450 C.R. F, Archbold, OH 43502
    is only 20 miles or 30 mins from Morenci.

    Quote snipped by Redtailhawk.
    Regarding the Adriel School, this appears to be a school and organization held in the Iglesia Menonita Hispana church aka the Hispanic Mennonites. That's very interesting. This church was formed and housed in a house 3 doors down from my Grandparents house in Archbold, a house I lived in for a brief time as an infant. I remember the people there as being very nice, great to see their church has grown through the years to get a "new church building" a few country blocks down the road from where they started.
    A jury doesn't declare you innocent, they only say that you are "guilty" or "not guilty".

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  37. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish_Eyes View Post
    Breaking this down in my head...so frustratingly little to go on in this case, so forgive me if it's way out there...

    Quite an unusual name: United Foster Outreach Underground Sanctuaries

    It's a little redundant and confusing, no? Obviously it implies more than one location, "underground" is a buzzword JS probably heard before and thought made sense. I can even see "sanctuaries." And again, "united" implies a unity, a network, a plurality. "foster" home is kind of similar to "sanctuary" And "outreach" in this context makes no sense at all. Evangelicals use the term "outreach" frequently, was he meaning to imply a connection with a church ministry?

    JS has proved to be not entirely stupid and I think he thinks he's smarter than everyone, including LE. So that got me thinking. In other crimes perpetrators have used "clues" to try to toy with police. Is he sending some kind of message with this complicated name? He certainly has had plenty of time to think about it, are you telling me this is the best he could come up with?

    Consider these possible interpretations:

    United Foster Outreach Underground Sanctuaries - U FOUnd uS. Is he laughing to himself because the police have already searched the area where the boys are?

    Could also be United Foster Outreach Underground Sanctuaries - U FOUnd Sanctuaries...possibly the same meaning, or maybe trying to convince himself that the boys have found sanctuary, i.e. what he did was right.

    Like I said, out there, I know, but I think he chose those words carefully.
    Taking your lead here, in that there may be some hidden info in this name he gave....
    There is an unincorporated community called Fosters, OH, often referred to as Foster, OH. Its South of Dayton Ohio, and is right along the river in what looks like a very rural area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lishac23 View Post
    Taking your lead here, in that there may be some hidden info in this name he gave....
    There is an unincorporated community called Fosters, OH, often referred to as Foster, OH. Its South of Dayton Ohio, and is right along the river in what looks like a very rural area.

    Hmm very interesting, great scoping thoughts out lishac!! ...222 miles from Morenci, about 4+- hrs driving time, depending on route.
    Little Miami River bridge is there, also a bike trail.
    I see Kings Island Amusement park is just north of Fosters...wonder if that was a place the family went.

    I keep wondering if there is one place in particular that holds any significance to JS...or to TS.

    Y'all keep thinking on his diction and see if anything hits ya.

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    Going back to media links to pull stuff LE said- I have forgotten some specifics on time frames. Trying to start at beginning and work forward.

    http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs...WS16/101129625

    snipped-Chief Weeks said investigators particularly need to know where the boys were from 2:30 p.m. Thursday to 1:30 p.m. Friday.

    SO- can we assume from this, that JS went into the hospital around 1:30 pm Friday?

    ad LE is fairly confident that the neighbors saw 2 of the boys playing outside Thur afternoon


    http://www.toledoblade.com/article/2...EWS16/11280359
    snipped-BBM
    Chief Weeks said the investigation is trying to determine the location of the 1990 Dodge Caravan from about 4 a.m. to 7 a.m. Friday when it may have been in the area of Kunkle, Holiday City, and West Unity in Williams County in Ohio.


    Okay - they always had the van- at first MSM made it sound like the van was missing. Another article mentions the van possibly having been sighted on an Ohio highway (US 20???) early morning hours on Friday.


    http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/25931135/detail.html
    snipped-BBM
    Police are focusing their primary search efforts near Pioneer, Ohio, a small town along the Michigan-Ohio state line.

    Police said they decided to focus on the Ohio area because of cell phone activity

    Okay- I assume this cell activity was for Thurs/Fri...Can anyone find reference to OTHER cell phone activity??? Times/areas??


    http://www.toledoonthemove.com/news/...aspx?id=548319
    snipped-
    Residents with property in areas of Morenci, Michigan; Holiday City, Ohio; Pioneer, Ohio; and Kunkle, Ohio are being asked to search their property on their own.

    How well have those vicinities been searched??

    BBL

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  43. #498
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    Okay, back to looking at stuff- has some interesting point been over looked??

    http://www.toledoblade.com/article/2...WS16/101209951

    snipped-
    Dennis Wisniewski, the head of the scuba team from Williams County, described the efforts as a "shot in the dark," saying investigators don't have direct information the Skelton brothers would be found in the area.

    But he also said investigators believe their father John Skelton's cell phone was used in the area last week on the day they turned up missing. In addition, several witnesses have come forward saying they saw Mr. Skelton's van exit from the nearby Ohio Turnpike.

    In addition to the divers, 200 volunteers were searching on foot Thursday in the woods around Elmira, Ohio, which is just south of the turnpike in Fulton County.


    - have they just not searched far enough out in the area?

    Okay- that Adriel School is only a couple of miles below Elmira. You go south on 66 to CoRd F/Township and turn east to it. Or you can turn west and Goll Woods is only 2- 3miles west.
    Oddly enough that route 66 is call Defiance St.going into Archbold.



    United Foster Outreach and Underground Sanctuaries....think think on this and all he has said...what is the clue


    (Hmmm ran across a comment mentioning Meth being a big problem in the Morenci area, and this person wonders if JS stole or owed something to any drug 'gang'....adn the boys were taken instead. hmmm)

    http://detnews.com/article/20110201/...#ixzz1CiqldQ9Q
    snipped most recent line about the cell-

    Authorities have said cell phone records indicate John Skelton may have taken his sons across the nearby Ohio state line before they were reported missing.


    another line on MSM- Morenci Chief Larry Weeks is now asking people in the area, along the Michigan-Ohio border, to be on the lookout for bodies.

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  45. #499
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    oh yi yi- finding stuff about the Underground railroad...not sure if how those references of sanctuaries might apply here- many hiding places were used- different religious denominations involved
    can't find any northwest Ohio caves

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish_Eyes View Post
    Breaking this down in my head...so frustratingly little to go on in this case, so forgive me if it's way out there...

    Quite an unusual name: United Foster Outreach Underground Sanctuaries

    It's a little redundant and confusing, no? Obviously it implies more than one location, "underground" is a buzzword JS probably heard before and thought made sense. I can even see "sanctuaries." And again, "united" implies a unity, a network, a plurality. "foster" home is kind of similar to "sanctuary" And "outreach" in this context makes no sense at all. Evangelicals use the term "outreach" frequently, was he meaning to imply a connection with a church ministry?

    JS has proved to be not entirely stupid and I think he thinks he's smarter than everyone, including LE. So that got me thinking. In other crimes perpetrators have used "clues" to try to toy with police. Is he sending some kind of message with this complicated name? He certainly has had plenty of time to think about it, are you telling me this is the best he could come up with?

    Consider these possible interpretations:

    United Foster Outreach Underground Sanctuaries - U FOUnd uS. Is he laughing to himself because the police have already searched the area where the boys are?

    Could also be United Foster Outreach Underground Sanctuaries - U FOUnd Sanctuaries...possibly the same meaning, or maybe trying to convince himself that the boys have found sanctuary, i.e. what he did was right.

    Like I said, out there, I know, but I think he chose those words carefully.
    Very interesting.
    Is he sending a message that it is all a big cover up, just like UFO's are in the U.S. ??? (u.f.o.u.s.)

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