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Thread: PA - White Haven "Beth Doe" & Unborn Baby 169UFPA, 16-22, Dec'76, #2

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    PA - White Haven "Beth Doe" & Unborn Baby 169UFPA, 16-22, Dec'76, #2

    Please continue here.

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46279"]Thread 1[/ame]
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 04-08-2013 at 10:45 PM.
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    Wsr ??

    I'm just googling the initials and looking for anything that pops up and looks like an address:

    2990 W. S.R.44. DeLand, Florida

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    I saw a TV show about a missing girl the other night. It took several months for her to be identified because the missing report listed the date (for last known alive) as the date the report was taken. The person who entered it never entered the last seen date.

    So the body was found in Sept. but the report had January on it so the connection was never made until the mother insisted on a dental records check in about March.

    I'm just wondering how many times that blunder may have been made in the past and how it may effect cases such as this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by apearn View Post
    I saw a TV show about a missing girl the other night. It took several months for her to be identified because the missing report listed the date (for last known alive) as the date the report was taken. The person who entered it never entered the last seen date.

    So the body was found in Sept. but the report had January on it so the connection was never made until the mother insisted on a dental records check in about March.

    I'm just wondering how many times that blunder may have been made in the past and how it may effect cases such as this.
    You are referring to Samantha Bonnell. Her thread is right here:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34531"]Identified! CA-(Update: Identified) Traffic Accident: San Bernardino White Female - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


    Paula Beverly Davis (AKA the Blue Bandanna Girl) was another case that went 22 years without an identification for the same reason. The Missing Persons Report Date was entered in the DLC (Date of Last Contact) field in the NCIC record.

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88936"]Identified! OH-Paula Beverly Davis (28ufoh-WarningMorguePhoto-MATCH??) - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

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    Yes. That sounds like her case.

    I made a facebook page for Beth Doe. Maybe if it gets around someone's memory will get jogged.

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    Has anyone ever considered Valarie Lorraine Cuccia ?

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/138dfny.html



    Date Of Birth: October 16, 1953
    Age at Time of Disappearance: 20 years old
    Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'6; 120 pounds
    Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Black hair; brown eyes.
    Dentals: Available.
    Marks, Scars: Cuccia has a scar on her left calf.

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    She needs a name- White Haven Doe?

    Anyhow, Here's her DoeNet profile for the second thread. She isn't in NamUs.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/169ufpa.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snufamonbobball View Post
    She needs a name- White Haven Doe?

    Anyhow, Here's her DoeNet profile for the second thread. She isn't in NamUs.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/169ufpa.html
    Her name on the cross & grave marker at the cemetery is Beth Doe.

    http://pennsylvaniamissing.com/bethdoe.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snufamonbobball View Post
    She needs a name- White Haven Doe?

    Anyhow, Here's her DoeNet profile for the second thread. She isn't in NamUs.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/169ufpa.html
    They've always been Beth and Baby Doe.
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

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    This guy was found a little over 3 weeks later than her - about 60 miles away on a pretty straight run south from White Haven - dead of a suicide.

    I'd bet - if they could find his body and match the baby's DNA, he'd be the father.


    http://doenetwork.org/cases/1299umpa.html

    Unidentified White Male


    •The victim was discovered on January 16, 1977 in Albany Township, Berks County, Pennsylvania
    •Probable Year of Death: 1977
    •Cause of Death: Suicide by drug overdose
    •State of Remains: Recognizable Face


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Vital Statistics

    •Estimated age: 25-35 years old
    •Approximate Height and Weight: 5'10"-5'11; 155 lbs.
    •Distinguishing Characteristics: Reddish brown, long and curly hair; blue eyes. Full beard. T-shaped scar on left side of chin.
    •Clothing: Dark brown suede/buckskin jacket with tassels on the sleeves and torso (size 38); faded blue jeans (Wrangler brand, size 30x34); brown leather belt; brown, knit turtleneck sweater (labeled Jules Pilch-Doylestown/Hatboro, size "M"); long winter undershirt and pants (size "S"), military issue with laundry mark B-0654; two pair of socks (one pair black, the other wool); brown leather hiking boots, ankle length with black Vibran soles (size 10-10 1/2); leather gloves; sunglasses.
    •Personal Effects: He was wearing a 14K white gold ring with a blue stone; his pockets contained a comb, pen, pencil, matches and $1.78.
    •Fingerprints: Not Available
    •Dentals: Not Available


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Case History
    The frozen body of the victim was found by two hikers in a cave below an area called The Pinnacle along the Appalachian Trail, in Albany Township, Pennsylvania on January 16, 1977. The cave where he was found is only accessible by foot.
    There is little documentation available for this unidentified man. Any photos, autopsy reports, possible fingerprints or dental records have been lost. He was buried in the Berks County Potters Field, however, there are no burial plot records available and his exact location in the cemetery is unknown at this time.

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    I'm familiar with this area. The Pinnacle is a pretty popular hiking area, especially in the fall when you get great views. It's well known, anyway, and it's a bit of a stretch, I think, to assume this unknown man was involved with Beth and baby Doe. It's possible, of course, but I don't think there's any reason to connect the two.

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    This article was posted in the thread for the bodies found recently on Long Island, but it includes information about many other LI murders. http://www.longislandpress.com/2011/...rial-killer/5/

    At least two of the dumped bodies are dismembered and in luggage, which I thought was an interesting connection. It's certainly within the realm of possibility that Beth's murderer started looking for a dump site closer to home, if he came from NYC.
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

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    I'm familiar with this area. The Pinnacle is a pretty popular hiking area, especially in the fall when you get great views. It's well known, anyway, and it's a bit of a stretch, I think, to assume this unknown man was involved with Beth and baby Doe. It's possible, of course, but I don't think there's any reason to connect the two.
    I'm wondering what the population of that area was in 1976. It seems a pretty tight distance and timeframe to have an unidentified homicide victim & an unidentified suicide victim that are unrelated - and both never identified.

    There is a resovoir right by there. Do you know if a car was ever found in it?

    I'm thinking he could have been there a week or so longer than they think since it was a cold time of year. Richard Kluklinski used to freeze his victims to mess up the time of death.

    I keep looking at this girl as well: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1290dfmd.html

    and wondering if she was pregnant and that was the 'family problems'.

    She seems more likely to have gone in the bay than a river 3 hours north - unless there was some connection to PA.

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    I know that this is probably a coincidence, but besides Doe Network Case File 598UFCA and Doe Network Case File 147UFPA, I remembered another case of a dark haired possibly foreign women dismembered in suitcases -- Doe Network Case File 338UFNV.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/338ufnv.html

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    The other day I was watching a show...I think it was called Runaways. It had 2 young females who had run away. I was astonished about the time that had lapsed - one had been away from her family 11 years or so and the other one 5 years. Both were out on the streets.

    Basically ,it made me think to go back further in time for possible matches.

    This one caught my eye.




    Rose Lena Cole
    Missing since the July 1, 1973 from Oakland, Alameda County, California
    Classification: Endangered Runaway


    Vital Statistics
    •Date Of Birth: December 23, 1956
    •Age at Time of Disappearance: 16 years old
    •Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'3"-5'6"; 120 -130 lbs.
    •Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; green/hazel eyes.
    •Dentals: Not available
    •DNA: Available


    Circumstances of Disappearance
    Cole was last seen in Oakland, California in the summer of 1973. Cole was last seen in Oakland, California. She could be missing from California, Michigan, or in between.

    After an incident of running away from home and apparent participation with drugs, Cole was sent by the court in Flint, Michigan, to reside at Synanon drug rehabilitation program in the summer of 1972. Synanon was initially a drug rehabilitation program founded by Charles Dederich Sr. in 1958 in Santa Monica, California. Her date of disappearance can not quite be pinned down. The last letter her family received was dated December 1972, but was not mailed for over a month. According to her letters, her family situation was difficult for her. In them she begged to come home and to be loved.



    Thoughts?
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    carbuff is offline ebook Bad Fairies available from Torridbooks.com, Amazon, B&N
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    That looks like a definite possibility.

    Here's an article about Synanon that mentions Rose: [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synanon[/ame]
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

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    Does anyone know if this person has been ruled out for Beth Doe?

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/31dfvic.html

    She has a mole in the same location, brown hair, brown eyes, and olive complexion. She took pictures from the family album before she left, and her family believes she was going somewhere with a boyfriend. PA is a long way from Australia, but if New York City was her actual destination/home for two years, and then said boyfriend dumped her in PA, I suppose it's possible.

    Thoughts?

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    Beth and Baby Doe were added to Namus yesterday (actually just Beth, they did not add one for the fetus).

    https://identifyus.org/cases/8913

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    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    Beth and Baby Doe were added to Namus yesterday (actually just Beth, they did not add one for the fetus).

    https://identifyus.org/cases/8913
    The NamUs listing doesn't list any rule outs. I was wondering if there were any and who they were?

    I also wanted to know how they came up with the nickname "Beth." Was there something with the body to indicate this was her name in life (like Valerie Doe from Northern Nevada) or someone thought that she looked like a Beth, or ???

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    This is a really sad case and I have been thinking about it for quite a while.

    I was thinking that the gunshot wound is odd. That's a strange place to shoot someone- in the neck. Why not shoot her in the head? In fact, why shoot her at all? The killer was obviously strong to cut her up like that with a fine serrated blade (likely a hacksaw). She was strangled first, and he knew he killed her that way. Why then shoot her in the neck afterward? That's pure risk: risk of someone hearing the shot, risk of someone finding the bullet. Since it was unnecessary and risky it's something he just wanted to do.

    He definitely planned this murder. I just don't think a full term pregnant woman would be travelling with three suitcases of identical size. Those suitcases were obtained with their purpose already known. He cut off the handles and painted the zippers black- he prepared them beforehand.

    He had a place where he felt completely safe too. It takes a while to cut up a body like that. I figure he was not worried about the length of time, the huge amounts of blood, or the gunshot sound. I bet he had access to a locked room/shed/basement to store hacksaws, tools, paint, and three big prepared suitcases. Was it a safe room in a crowded area? I don't think so. I think it was a remote setting, maybe farmland. There's the straw in the suitcase.

    Here's a wierd thing: Why go to all the trouble to dismember the body and place it in suitcases? It's easier, less messy, and less dangerous to simply bag a body and put it in the trunk. He wasn't doing it to try to separate the body parts because he threw all three suitcases in the same place. He did that because he was afraid he might be seen putting her in the vehicle and he had to make sure that it looked like suitcases and not a body.

    So he has a remote place somewhere with a room/shed yet is afraid of being seen putting something in the trunk. Why? Because he lives with someone else who might see him, someone other than Beth Doe. Someone who is used to the sound of a gun around the place because he is a hunter, which is why the police said he "knew what he was doing" when he dismembered her poor body. Someone who'd had a flowered chenille bedspread for a long time. A woman. I figure his only means of transportation was a pickup truck and he had to use suitcases to disguise the body when he went to dump it.

    Beth Doe depended on her killer for food, clothing, and shelter. She was found so very soon after her death. Surely the police were looking out and asking around for a missing full term pregnant woman. Yet she was not reported missing. She wasn't reported missing because the killer was her family and didn't report it on purpose. Also poor Beth Doe would have been missed if she had a job or close neighbors. It is no coincidence that she was killed near full term. There was something about that pregnancy that put her killer in danger and yet he kept her around as long as he possibly could, until the baby was about to be born. The killer wasn't her husband because then there would be no stigma to the pregnancy.

    She had gold fillings but missing teeth at a young age. This speaks of a good beginning but a financial hardship in the last several years of her life. She was around 20. I don't think the man was her natural father because- sorry to be graphic- she would have been pregnant sooner. I think her natural father left or died, leaving her mother much poorer. Her mother later took up with this other sadist who kept to himself and made sure his womenfolk kept to themselves. He got Beth Doe pregnant and became afraid his secret would be known. He blamed it on her, was furious with her, thought of her as a slut and therefore the cutting off of the nose and ears. He told Beth's mother some story about taking her off somewhere else to live. Beth Doe's mother was weak, abused, and had no means to support herself so she accepted this.

    That's my crazy theory anyway. The killer was her stepfather, a guy who lived in a rural area and kept him and his family to himself, a guy who was pretty strong and mean. He didn't like anybody and nobody liked him. There was a run down house (a remnant of the earlier, more financially stable times) with a locked shed on the premises. He didn't have much money and was driving an old vehicle, probably a pickup truck, when he disposed of her body. He didn't live all that far away from the disposal site. He liked to hunt and liked guns. He was probably in the military at some point because of the suitcase preparation.

    I'm still thinking about how the newspaper and writing on Beth Doe's hand fits into all this.

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    I wish I knew exactly where in the neck she was shot because that was something the killer wanted to do not something he needed to do.. If my theory is correct, I think he would have shot her in her windpipe close enough to leave powder burns. He wanted her voice silenced about the pregnancy.

    The video made for her brought me to tears. She deserved so much better.

    http://www.squidoo.com/missingwoman1976#module73745761
    Last edited by tragco; 08-11-2011 at 02:14 PM.

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    I am not getting the feeling she was an immigrant. I think those dental fillings during that time frame just seem more American than foreign. I hope they checked her dental records with all the dentist's offices in around a 70 mile radius from that overpass.

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    I keep coming back to Karen Beth Kamsch lately.

    Depending on what you read, Karen never started school in the fall of 1976.

    Now Beth Doe would have conceived in mid to late March of 1976. So assuming she was in school, no one would have likely noticed the pregnancy by June. However, they would have noticed in September so if someone wanted to hide that pregnancy - your not going back to school in Sept.

    I'm wondering if anyone in the family (other than the grandmother) saw Karen in the fall (say Thanksgiving time) - because the death right before Christmas of Beth could have been deliberate to cover up the pregnancy/infant from family members who would be gathering and asking questions.

    Some articles say Karen was abused but they decline to elaborate on it. I'm wondering if it was sexual abuse.

    It is interesting - or coincidental - that Beth Doe was exhumed in Oct of 2007 for DNA - a couple months after the well on Wishing Rock (Karen's case) was examined for evidence.

    From Beth's case:

    While there were different interpretations of what was actually written on the hand, almost definitely was WSR. Next to that was either a 4 or a 5. Below and to the right was either a 4 or 7.
    Karen lived at 51 Wishing Rock Rd

    Assuming she wanted to write her address - or someone else's address from Wishing Rock on her hand.....Wishing Rock Rd isn't that big though...I don't think she would have needed to write down someone else's.

    Wishing Rock - could be WSR the

    first number is a 4 or 5 OK - use 5
    The second number could be a 1 that was interpreted to be a 7 - it could depend on her handwriting.
    Last edited by apearn; 09-01-2011 at 12:11 PM.

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    An article for the 35th anniversary of Beth Doe's discovery:

    http://www.timesleader.com/news/35-y...2-20-2011.html

    McAndrew said investigators learned that a specific suitcase manufacturer discarded flawed suitcases by removing the handles.
    I don't remember seeing this information in previous articles; forgive me if it has. That's interesting because while removing the suitcases would effectively destroy their resale value, there might have been nothing to stop employees from taking a few defective suitcases home to use for storing things. Presumably the factory didn't have a trash compactor because you'd think crushing defective suitcases would be less time-consuming than removing the handles. It still doesn't explain the paint on the zippers.

    I wonder if LE has looked into past employees of the suitcase factory and whether any of them had a girlfriend or wife who suddenly "left" him. They should also talk to people who lived near the factory and see if they remember whether it was common to see just anyone salvaging suitcases from the trash bins...in other words, was the factory easily accessible or were only employees permitted on the grounds?
    <-- Watched one too many Hanna-Barbera "teenage detective" cartoons as a kid.

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    I don't remember seeing this information in previous articles; forgive me if it has.
    You are correct, tatertot, that info has not been released before.

    As far as the spray paint is concerned...I've been in retail (pretty much all aspects of it) for more years than I care to count. Several years ago I was involved in the liquidation of merchandise that had been 'packed away' - some for years. We'd mark it down, 25% - 50% - 75% - 90% then discard whatever was left of it in the dumpster. Our instruction was to essentially render the product unusable so that folks couldn't dumpster dive and take it back to a store for a refund. So we were told to spray paint it. Granted, this is retail, not manufacturer, but I can see how that extra step might be taken. Cut off the handles, spray paint around the zippers - and throw it in the dumpster. From there, back in the 70s, it would likely end up in "the dump". That's what we called them back then, not landfills. Dumps. Anything and everything ended up there.

    So could it have been someone who worked at a luggage manufacturer? Sure. Or a dumpster diver. Or the guy who emptied the dumpster. Or someone treasure hunting at a dump.

    Sigh!

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