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  1. #1
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    MI - Detroit, WhtFem Skeletal UP8175, 25-45, found in alley, Mar'09

    NamUs UP Case 8175 https://identifyus.org/cases/8175

    Unidentified White Female
    * Found March 26, 2009 on 12933 St. Louis St. in Detroit, MI
    * Estimated Year of Death: 2008 - 2009

    Vital Statistics
    * Estimated age: 25-45 years old
    * Approximate Height: 67 inches (5'7")
    * Distinguishing Characteristics: Light brown hair - long, fine and possibly reddish in color.
    * Dentals: Available
    * Clothing/Jewelry: No clothing. Victim was naked.
    * DNA: Available, Not yet submitted.

    Case History
    Partially skeletal remains of a nude white female were found in an alley in the city of Detroit.

    _______

    I saw this case in NamUs with the only images being a skull and a hair mass (and a description of the hair mass), so I decided to take another shot at a facial reconstruction of a skull.

    No guarantee that this is what she looks like in an overall sense, but this is probably pretty close to how her head shape and positioning of her features look. She had a very small forehead, moderately prominent cheekbones, and a prominent chin. The teeth were lost postmortem, so she apparently had her front teeth prior to her death.



    Here's the video showing the overlay of the skull to the recon.
    Detroit White Female Skull Reconstruction - YouTube
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 11-02-2015 at 01:02 AM. Reason: repair url tag.

  2. #2
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    I was looking at Colleen Maria Nichols. Actually, her facial shape is almost right. But she has a higher forehead (not to mention that her hair is too dark).

    Colleen Maria Nichols


    http://www.nampn.org/cases/nichols_colleen.html
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-09-2012 at 06:24 PM.

  3. #3
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    Mary Denise Lands also looks pretty close. But I think her eyes are just a little too wide.


    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/lands_mary.html
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 11-02-2015 at 01:02 AM.

  4. #4
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    Judith Ann Mattise is a little older than the estimate, and the time frame is too long, but otherwise, she looks pretty good.

    Her height is spot-on, and her car was found in Detroit.

    http://www.nampn.org/cases/matisse_judith.html



    The overlay is a little difficult due to the forward tilt of her head compared to the backward tilt of the skull.

    ETA: I just sent an e-mail on this possible match to Trooper Krebs of the MI State Police. She is a forensic artist, so it should be interesting what she has to say.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 11-02-2015 at 01:02 AM.

  5. #5
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    Looking forward to hearing what you find out CarlK90245!!! Great work by the way!

  6. #6
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    I gave my recon an alternative hairstyle more similar to Judith's hair. A woman with that short of a forehead and that large a chin probably would want to puff her hair up to make her face look more normally proportioned.



    ETA: IMO, the color of her hair supports the possibility that she is older. That does not appear to be a natural hair color, and it appears to me to be more typical for older women who dye their grey hair. A natural blonde or a natural brunette would probably not choose that color to dye her hair.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 11-02-2015 at 01:03 AM.

  7. #7
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    Good observation on the hair color. I was going to suggest that it had been dyed. And if it was colored, the color might have changed over the years.

    She really does have an unusually low forehead, doesn't she? But with the changed hairstyle, Judith does look close.
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

  8. #8
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    I received a reply from Trooper Krebs:

    Carl,

    Thanks so much for your nice facial reconstruction on this case, was that all done in Photoshop? I myself am a facial reconstructionist, I use the 3-D method and have been successful on three cases now.

    I did some follow up on Judith Mattise, I am familiar with her case, I used to work up in the New Haven area when she went missing....I pulled her NCIC record and the dental entry showed she was edentulous, which would rule out the Wayne County Jane Doe, who had teeth when she died.

    Keep up the web sluething, I can always use someone on my side! I don't have the time to even look at half of the cases I enter, I"ve been so busy!!!!!

    Happy Holiday's and have a great new year, keep in touch if you see any more similarities.

  9. #9
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    how about Margaret Leader, missing from Chicago March 2005? had substance abuse problems and had worked as a prostitute. was almost 26 when last seen.

    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/1697/45/

    had brown hair and stated height was 5'9". some of the pictures of her show her with two-tone coloring.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    how about Margaret Leader, missing from Chicago March 2005? had substance abuse problems and had worked as a prostitute. was almost 26 when last seen.

    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/1697/45/

    had brown hair and stated height was 5'9". some of the pictures of her show her with two-tone coloring.
    I tried doing an overlay of the skull to her mugshot. Although she looks fairly close from the eyes down, Margaret's forehead is way too tall to be this Jane Doe.


  11. #11
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    not to knock the City of Detroit, but it is not exactly a mecca for much these days. for a woman of this demographic to be found there dead means to me that she was either taken there to be dumped or lived a marginal existence in the city. if dumped, then I don't think she was transported all that far. if she was marginally surviving there, she could have done so for a few years before her death.

    are you saying Carl that the facial structure of the UID is too different to be a match with Margaret Leader?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    not to knock the City of Detroit, but it is not exactly a mecca for much these days. for a woman of this demographic to be found there dead means to me that she was either taken there to be dumped or lived a marginal existence in the city. if dumped, then I don't think she was transported all that far. if she was marginally surviving there, she could have done so for a few years before her death.

    are you saying Carl that the facial structure of the UID is too different to be a match with Margaret Leader?
    If you look at the Google Maps overhead, you can see that the remains were found about a block from a very industrial area with auto wrecking yards and obviously low-budget real estate (even by Detroit standards).

    And yes, when I try to fit the skull to her photo, it is much too different.

    When you size the images so that they are of comparable size, and fit her eyes into the sockets, and align the septum of her nose to the nasal spine on the skull, the top of Margaret's head extends significantly above the top of the skull, and her jaws are also slightly broader.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 12-21-2010 at 06:13 PM.

  13. #13
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    there is also Kelli Rice, missing on March 2, 2008 from TN under suspicious circumstances, i.e. last seen with 2 drug dealers.

    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/2795/11/

    she was listed as 5'9", 25 y.o., light brown hair (dyed blonde at the time of her disappearance) and had at least one child.

  14. #14
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    I just have two questions for here.
    1)Who determined the hailine?
    2)How do you "align" the skull to the face when the skull is tilted backward? Okay...three questions.
    3)Are you saying this is scientific and how it is done by forensic experts? Okay...*sigh* 4 questions?
    4) Why do the forensic folks use all those pins and calculations for muscle placement if it can be drawn on the skull?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    I just have two questions for here.
    1)Who determined the hailine?
    2)How do you "align" the skull to the face when the skull is tilted backward? Okay...three questions.
    3)Are you saying this is scientific and how it is done by forensic experts? Okay...*sigh* 4 questions?
    4) Why do the forensic folks use all those pins and calculations for muscle placement if it can be drawn on the skull?
    (1) I did. BTW, Even with the experts, it's only a guess.
    (2) I acknowledged that weakness in post #4 when I was discussing the comparison to Judith Matisse. The difference in tilt is not significant enough in the case of Margaret Leader to explain the considerable difference that I alluded to in post #10. There is only one photo available, so I make a judgement call with what I have.
    (3) No, I never said that it was scientific. Very little of what is said on an internet chat board should be characterized as "scientific".
    (4) Because they are experts. But since none of the experts have given this a shot (and likely won't), I gave it mine. And BTW, Trooper Krebs, who is an expert, spoke favorably of it. Maybe she is too polite.

    BTW, if you don't like my recons, you are perfectly free to work with the unaltered photo of the scull and use it in whatever way you see fit.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 12-21-2010 at 08:05 PM.

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