MI MI - Detroit, *GRAPHIC*, WhtFem 25-45, UP8175, skeletal in alley, long, fine poss red hair, Mar'09

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CarlK90245

CarlK90245

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NamUs UP Case 8175 https://identifyus.org/cases/8175

Unidentified White Female
* Found March 26, 2009 on 12933 St. Louis St. in Detroit, MI
* Estimated Year of Death: 2008 - 2009

Vital Statistics
* Estimated age: 25-45 years old
* Approximate Height: 67 inches (5'7")
* Distinguishing Characteristics: Light brown hair - long, fine and possibly reddish in color.
* Dentals: Available
* Clothing/Jewelry: No clothing. Victim was naked.
* DNA: Available, Not yet submitted.

Case History
Partially skeletal remains of a nude white female were found in an alley in the city of Detroit.

_______

I saw this case in NamUs with the only images being a skull and a hair mass (and a description of the hair mass), so I decided to take another shot at a facial reconstruction of a skull.

No guarantee that this is what she looks like in an overall sense, but this is probably pretty close to how her head shape and positioning of her features look. She had a very small forehead, moderately prominent cheekbones, and a prominent chin. The teeth were lost postmortem, so she apparently had her front teeth prior to her death.

e6d346b4-e601-4a49-9ede-9f0855926ebf.jpg


Here's the video showing the overlay of the skull to the recon.
Detroit White Female Skull Reconstruction - YouTube
 
Judith Ann Mattise is a little older than the estimate, and the time frame is too long, but otherwise, she looks pretty good.

Her height is spot-on, and her car was found in Detroit.

http://www.nampn.org/cases/matisse_judith.html

e6d346b4-e601-4a49-9ede-9f0855926ebf.jpg
2095532160045078242S600x600Q851.jpg


The overlay is a little difficult due to the forward tilt of her head compared to the backward tilt of the skull.

ETA: I just sent an e-mail on this possible match to Trooper Krebs of the MI State Police. She is a forensic artist, so it should be interesting what she has to say.
 
Looking forward to hearing what you find out CarlK90245!!! Great work by the way!
 
I gave my recon an alternative hairstyle more similar to Judith's hair. A woman with that short of a forehead and that large a chin probably would want to puff her hair up to make her face look more normally proportioned.

0baeeb2d-d5a1-4504-8a92-b372e4554c4d.jpg
2095532160045078242S600x600Q851.jpg


ETA: IMO, the color of her hair supports the possibility that she is older. That does not appear to be a natural hair color, and it appears to me to be more typical for older women who dye their grey hair. A natural blonde or a natural brunette would probably not choose that color to dye her hair.
 
Good observation on the hair color. I was going to suggest that it had been dyed. And if it was colored, the color might have changed over the years.

She really does have an unusually low forehead, doesn't she? But with the changed hairstyle, Judith does look close.
 
I received a reply from Trooper Krebs:

Carl,

Thanks so much for your nice facial reconstruction on this case, was that all done in Photoshop? I myself am a facial reconstructionist, I use the 3-D method and have been successful on three cases now.

I did some follow up on Judith Mattise, I am familiar with her case, I used to work up in the New Haven area when she went missing....I pulled her NCIC record and the dental entry showed she was edentulous, which would rule out the Wayne County Jane Doe, who had teeth when she died.

Keep up the web sluething, I can always use someone on my side! I don't have the time to even look at half of the cases I enter, I"ve been so busy!!!!!

Happy Holiday's and have a great new year, keep in touch if you see any more similarities.
Click to expand...
 
webrocket said:
how about Margaret Leader, missing from Chicago March 2005? had substance abuse problems and had worked as a prostitute. was almost 26 when last seen.

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/1697/45/

had brown hair and stated height was 5'9". some of the pictures of her show her with two-tone coloring.
Click to expand...

I tried doing an overlay of the skull to her mugshot. Although she looks fairly close from the eyes down, Margaret's forehead is way too tall to be this Jane Doe.
 
not to knock the City of Detroit, but it is not exactly a mecca for much these days. for a woman of this demographic to be found there dead means to me that she was either taken there to be dumped or lived a marginal existence in the city. if dumped, then I don't think she was transported all that far. if she was marginally surviving there, she could have done so for a few years before her death.

are you saying Carl that the facial structure of the UID is too different to be a match with Margaret Leader?
 
webrocket said:
not to knock the City of Detroit, but it is not exactly a mecca for much these days. for a woman of this demographic to be found there dead means to me that she was either taken there to be dumped or lived a marginal existence in the city. if dumped, then I don't think she was transported all that far. if she was marginally surviving there, she could have done so for a few years before her death.

are you saying Carl that the facial structure of the UID is too different to be a match with Margaret Leader?
Click to expand...

If you look at the Google Maps overhead, you can see that the remains were found about a block from a very industrial area with auto wrecking yards and obviously low-budget real estate (even by Detroit standards).

And yes, when I try to fit the skull to her photo, it is much too different.

When you size the images so that they are of comparable size, and fit her eyes into the sockets, and align the septum of her nose to the nasal spine on the skull, the top of Margaret's head extends significantly above the top of the skull, and her jaws are also slightly broader.
 
I just have two questions for here.
1)Who determined the hailine?
2)How do you "align" the skull to the face when the skull is tilted backward? Okay...three questions.
3)Are you saying this is scientific and how it is done by forensic experts?:waitasec: Okay...*sigh* 4 questions?
4) Why do the forensic folks use all those pins and calculations for muscle placement if it can be drawn on the skull?
 
Mensch said:
I just have two questions for here.
1)Who determined the hailine?
2)How do you "align" the skull to the face when the skull is tilted backward? Okay...three questions.
3)Are you saying this is scientific and how it is done by forensic experts?:waitasec: Okay...*sigh* 4 questions?
4) Why do the forensic folks use all those pins and calculations for muscle placement if it can be drawn on the skull?
Click to expand...

(1) I did. BTW, Even with the experts, it's only a guess.
(2) I acknowledged that weakness in post #4 when I was discussing the comparison to Judith Matisse. The difference in tilt is not significant enough in the case of Margaret Leader to explain the considerable difference that I alluded to in post #10. There is only one photo available, so I make a judgement call with what I have.
(3) No, I never said that it was scientific. Very little of what is said on an internet chat board should be characterized as "scientific".
(4) Because they are experts. But since none of the experts have given this a shot (and likely won't), I gave it mine. And BTW, Trooper Krebs, who is an expert, spoke favorably of it. Maybe she is too polite.

BTW, if you don't like my recons, you are perfectly free to work with the unaltered photo of the scull and use it in whatever way you see fit.
 
I asked these questions because they are most important when determining the accuracy of a visual by which researchers make a comparison.
Thanks for the offer, but again, this is the most critical part of building a UP case for the purpose of finding the missing. I would never undertake such a project. I am not trained in that field and have no problem working within my own limitations. I assumed questions were welcomed by all here.:twocents:
 
Here's where the skeletal remains were found. The "alleyway" is completely overgrown with trees, so much so, that it appears difficult even to pass through.

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-...2.41412,-83.039925&spn=0.000706,0.001367&z=20

This Google Earth Street-View shot is taken from Rupert Street. The address given in NamUs is around the corner, second house down on St. Luis Street (adjacent to the corner house shown on the left in this Street-View).

Actually, the neighborhood does not appear that run-down although the junkyard district is only a block away. Most of the houses on St. Louis Street, although small, do appear to be well kept up, the lawns are mowed, and the cars in the neighborhood are in respectable condition.
 
CarlK90245 and Mensch, the discussion you guys just had is one of the reasons I value WS's!!!! Mensch, the questions you asked are valid, and Carl, the answers gave were perfect. Carl, I think your use of computer graphics to recreate a face from a skull is awesome!!! I would love to try that sometime!! Mensch, I greatly value the fact that you are questioning the accuracy of what is being done. Even under the best of circumstances, I believe the recreation of the facial features of an UID is as much art as it is science. I believe questions of all sorts always make us better because we never become complacent. One of the other reasons I love WS's is because we never become complacent about victims of crime. This woman deserves to have someone care about her even after her death. SO many victims out there!!! We need an entire WS's army of people who care! Thanks to ALL of you!!!!
 
OT- Just wanted to say that Sarah Krebs is kicking @ss and taking names. Michigan had less than 20 unidentified persons in Namus up until oh about 4-5 months ago. And now we are up to 60 some. Nice. I am so happy that someone who has the authority will finally enter these nameless faces into Namus. GO KREBS!
 
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