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  1. #1
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    Conditional Pardons for the WM3????

    For all the supporters who think the WM3 are going to be declared innocent, take a look at these cases, all connected, out of Virginia. Some interesting parallels.
    http://www.vadp.org/events/death-pen...folk-four.html

    Would you consider it a victory if the WM3 only had their sentences commuted to time served?

    How easily could you live with that?
    Last edited by justthinkin; 12-23-2010 at 01:08 AM.

  2. #2
    I would rather see them exonerated. However, what I could live with is not really important. What is important is what the guys would accept. As to the Norfolk Four, there are significant differences between this case and the WM3. First, all confessions were made to LE officials, not just one, and that one by a mentally-challenged youth. Second, the N4 were all adults while the WM3 were teens at the time of the crime. Third, and this is just my opinion, it's possible that those who professed their innocence after confessing may have actually been observers only to the crime. It is my opinion that this last possibility is why the Governor of VA didn't grant full clemency. As observers, their details may have varied (we all know that eyewitnesses to a crime often report variations) and it is possible that as observers only, they might not have left any physical evidence. However, as to the unfair interrogation method (lying to the suspect about failing a polygraph) and the jury tainting, those elements were definitely present for the WM3. I heard a rumor that the officer responsible for the interrogations may be doing some jail time of his own. Anyone know about that? It really bothers me that those who are supposed to "protect and serve" seem to be doing otherwise in too many cases and too many places.

  3. #3
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    I wouldn't consider it a victory for justice and I wouldn't consider it a victory for the victims, as their cases would almost certainly be closed with a partial pardon.

    But I wouldn't blame any of the WM3 if they took such a deal. Not after 16 years.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Compassionate Reader View Post
    I would rather see them exonerated. However, what I could live with is not really important. What is important is what the guys would accept. As to the Norfolk Four, there are significant differences between this case and the WM3. First, all confessions were made to LE officials, not just one, and that one by a mentally-challenged youth. Second, the N4 were all adults while the WM3 were teens at the time of the crime. Third, and this is just my opinion, it's possible that those who professed their innocence after confessing may have actually been observers only to the crime. It is my opinion that this last possibility is why the Governor of VA didn't grant full clemency. As observers, their details may have varied (we all know that eyewitnesses to a crime often report variations) and it is possible that as observers only, they might not have left any physical evidence. However, as to the unfair interrogation method (lying to the suspect about failing a polygraph) and the jury tainting, those elements were definitely present for the WM3. I heard a rumor that the officer responsible for the interrogations may be doing some jail time of his own. Anyone know about that? It really bothers me that those who are supposed to "protect and serve" seem to be doing otherwise in too many cases and too many places.
    CR,
    You missed mentioning the thing that stood out to me the most, the fact there was no DNA evidence to tie the Norfolk 4 to the crime as is the case so far with the WM3.

    In those other cases, at one point they had arrested and charged 7 people, not including the one who's DNA matched the crime scene. Initially the police thought it was committed by one person based on the evidence left at the scene. I would think if 7 people had been in that apartment it would look different than if only one had been there. JMO. I can see why you think the Governor did what she did, but it looks like she was just guessing they were there. It could turn out that the state of Arkansas guesses the WM3 were at the crime scene.

    There might not be any DNA evidence to implicate the WM3, but their alibis have a lot of holes in them, including Damien agreeing on the stand that his mother made up his alibi, and the time line on it changed to fit a change in the time line of the case.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by justthinkin View Post
    CR,
    You missed mentioning the thing that stood out to me the most, the fact there was no DNA evidence to tie the Norfolk 4 to the crime as is the case so far with the WM3.

    In those other cases, at one point they had arrested and charged 7 people, not including the one who's DNA matched the crime scene. Initially the police thought it was committed by one person based on the evidence left at the scene. I would think if 7 people had been in that apartment it would look different than if only one had been there. JMO. I can see why you think the Governor did what she did, but it looks like she was just guessing they were there. It could turn out that the state of Arkansas guesses the WM3 were at the crime scene.

    There might not be any DNA evidence to implicate the WM3, but their alibis have a lot of holes in them, including Damien agreeing on the stand that his mother made up his alibi, and the time line on it changed to fit a change in the time line of the case.
    The Necklace that Damien was wearing and a Shirt ( both had blood on them)

    The Defense decided not to have these Items tested. The necklace matched Jason & Stevie's blood type.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by iluvmua View Post
    The Necklace that Damien was wearing and a Shirt ( both had blood on them)

    The Defense decided not to have these Items tested. The necklace matched Jason & Stevie's blood type.


    Where can I find this information please....thanks. I have not ever heard that before ever.
    Just my, no one elses

  7. #7
    justthinkin,
    In the N4 case, there was DNA at the scene that matched the perpetrator. In the WM3 case, there was DNA at the scene also. Is it just possible that that DNA also matches the perpetrator? Otherwise, yes, I should have mentioned the DNA not matching similarity. My bad.

    iluvmua,
    Blood type evidence is now pretty old school because of the limited number of blood types leading to the massive number of people with matching blood types. The facts now show no DNA evidence to link the WM3 to the scene. Blood type can only exclude someone. It can't really prove guilt.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by iluvmua View Post
    The Necklace that Damien was wearing and a Shirt ( both had blood on them)

    The Defense decided not to have these Items tested. The necklace matched Jason & Stevie's blood type.
    iluvmua, I think we can count on the SA getting the necklace tested this go round. In fact, I would bet the evidentiary hearings will not take place before this and much else is done. Arkansas has too much time and money invested in the guilt of the WM3 to miss this opportunity, unless of course the amount of blood is too small to be tested for DNA. This I don't know.

    Both sides have to put forth their best efforts at the evidentiary hearings so I do not think this will be a quick process. I'm guessing it will be another year before the actual hearing takes place.

    There is a reason why the defense decided against testing the necklace. The shirt, I know nothing about. Since I still believe the WM3 are where they belong, I think the defense held off on testing the necklace because they were afraid it would come back with Christopher Byer's DNA, about the best reason I can think of for them to not run a DNA test.

    The WM3Hoax site has a list of what's being held in evidence in this case. How that list was obtained, I can't vouch for, and don't know if such a list can be found elsewhere.

    I must say though when looking at all the people interviewed by WMPD and the number polygraphed, the WMPD having not interviewed Terry Hobbs or collected anything from him stands out like a sore thumb. I would really like to hear Gitchell's explanation for this.

    What was so golden about Terry Hobbs that no one thought to question him or take samples from him?

    Supporters tend to think the WMPD did not do a thorough investigation, but I believe they did, so to me, that they didn't test Hobbs is a huge red flag whether Hobbs had anything to do with the crime or not. Hobbs appears to have been protected. Why? I really don't believe he just flew under their radar.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~greeneyedgirl~ View Post
    [/COLOR]

    Where can I find this information please....thanks. I have not ever heard that before ever.
    Here: http://www.downonthefarm.org/wm3hoax...p?topic=3413.0

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by justthinkin View Post
    iluvmua, I think we can count on the SA getting the necklace tested this go round. In fact, I would bet the evidentiary hearings will not take place before this and much else is done. Arkansas has too much time and money invested in the guilt of the WM3 to miss this opportunity, unless of course the amount of blood is too small to be tested for DNA. This I don't know.

    Both sides have to put forth their best efforts at the evidentiary hearings so I do not think this will be a quick process. I'm guessing it will be another year before the actual hearing takes place.

    There is a reason why the defense decided against testing the necklace. The shirt, I know nothing about. Since I still believe the WM3 are where they belong, I think the defense held off on testing the necklace because they were afraid it would come back with Christopher Byer's DNA, about the best reason I can think of for them to not run a DNA test.

    The WM3Hoax site has a list of what's being held in evidence in this case. How that list was obtained, I can't vouch for, and don't know if such a list can be found elsewhere.

    I must say though when looking at all the people interviewed by WMPD and the number polygraphed, the WMPD having not interviewed Terry Hobbs or collected anything from him stands out like a sore thumb. I would really like to hear Gitchell's explanation for this.

    What was so golden about Terry Hobbs that no one thought to question him or take samples from him?

    Supporters tend to think the WMPD did not do a thorough investigation, but I believe they did, so to me, that they didn't test Hobbs is a huge red flag whether Hobbs had anything to do with the crime or not. Hobbs appears to have been protected. Why? I really don't believe he just flew under their radar.
    I too would like to know why they never interviewed Terry Hobbs


  11. #11
    I, too, wonder why TH was not interviewed until 2007 at which time most of his answers were evasive and/or non responsive. Maybe they'll put him on the stand at the hearing.

    greeneyedgirl,
    Here's another discussion thread about the necklace:

    http://www.wm3blackboard.com/forum/i...p?topic=3272.0

  12. #12
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    Was the Hobbs hair just found in 2007 or did they have it all these years?

  13. #13
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    I'm not convinced the 3 will get new trials (even though I think they are guilty) I would like for them to get new trials.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by iluvmua View Post
    Was the Hobbs hair just found in 2007 or did they have it all these years?
    They've had it all along. DNA testing procedures have advanced over the years to a point where more definitive information can now be obtained.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by iluvmua View Post
    (3) On the afternoon of March 15, 1994, after Court had recessed for the day, the State was informed at approximately 4:30 p.m. by representatives of Genetic Design in North Carolina that they had received a result which would be consistent with the blood of both the defendant Charles Jason Baldwin and the victim Steve Branch. The representatives of Genetic Design informed the State that they could conduct an additional test to try to determine which person the blood came from. Thereafter, the State attempted to contact the attorneys for each defendant to notify them of this development and to discuss a possible one-day continuance in the matter After unsuccessfully attempting to contact the attorneys for each defendant, the Court was contacted because of the problem of notification of the jury in the event a continuance was granted.

    After reading this, I find that this only means that Jason Baldwin was wearing a necklace that has his own blood type on it, basically telling me that Jason and Steve Branch have the same blood type, further testing to see who's actual blood was or is on this necklace have never been done.

    I'm sorry I don't see what you see, as my son is 17 and has gotten his own blood on his necklace from shaving.
    Just my, no one elses

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