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  1. #1
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    Problems with the DA

    Hi, all.

    A few months ago, the subject of ML came up. Our friend DeeDee summed it up rather brilliantly:

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249
    Her agenda was well known. From her single days as MK, assistant DA to AH, she was committed to seeing PR cleared of the crime. She was a feminist (nothing wrong with that) and from day 1 wouldn't even consider a case against the Rs. And it wasn't the only case of parental misconduct in a child's death she refused to prosecute. (Midyette?)
    Her agenda was always to exonerate the Rs, especially PR, at any cost
    To which I added:

    Prejudice, pure and simple. ML was known by many to be a hardcore feminist who sided with women she felt were victims regardless of facts.
    As usual, whenever one of us hits too close to home for IDI, they divert and obfuscate, even if they have to attack to do it. I was called a chauvinist dinosaur for my trouble, which really irked me, because I didn't say anything that hadn't already been said by people who knew her.

    So let's take it up a notch and get into specifics here. My book contains a quote from a candidate who ran against her in the 2000 election, Ben Thompson. Also a Democrat, but he seems to have his head on straight:

    "It's political, the reason that it hasn't been prosecuted. And we have a district attorney's office that is more political than it is a prosecutor's office. I'm sitting here listening to those two talk, or those three talk, and it's strange to me that Alex sounds more like a defense attorney than a prosecutor, and that's part of the problem. Let me say there is a cancer in our DA's office, and whenever anybody points it out, what happens is they attack whoever points it out instead of addressing the issue and trying to solve the problem."

    I think it's helpful to remember that Mary Lacy had her mind MADE UP on day one, not because of evidence, just because the Rs didn't "seem" like the "type" of people to do this.

    Don't take my word for it!

    Frank Coffman is a Boulder-based columnist. He actually worked on Lacy's election campaign until he found out what a dog-lunch she is. He had this to say:

    "Her basis for believing the Ramseys are innocent, as she explained it to me, is that the Ramseys don't have a history of being abusive parents that would be apt to kill their child," said Frank Coffman, who knew Keenan from volunteering on her 2000 campaign for district attorney. Coffman said, "At least from what she told me about it, she was basing her opinion on the Ramseys' innocence on the fact that they don't fit the profile of murdering parents."

    Here's the kicker:

    Because the Ramseys distrusted Boulder police - who they believed were fixated on them as suspects - John Ramsey was interrogated by veteran El Paso County homicide investigator Lou Smit and grand jury specialist Michael Kane, while Patsy was grilled by Denver district attorney's investigator Tom Haney and Boulder prosecutor Trip DeMuth. All interviews were videotaped and every few hours, completed tapes were transported from the Broomfield Police Department - where the interviews were conducted to avoid media attention - to Boulder, where they were studied by Boulder detectives and prosecutors, including then-Deputy District Attorney Keenan.

    One source involved in those sessions recalls being told by colleagues that Keenan chided Haney for being too tough on Patsy Ramsey:

    "Mary really had her nose in it, and thought that the Ramseys were being really pushed around," said another key law enforcement source.

    Now let's all think about that one REAL HARD! I devote significant space to ML in my book. This is a passage that describes my feelings when I found out what I just posted (Some of the more extreme profanity has been sanitized):

    Tom Haney is one of the finest homicide detectives in the entire Rocky Mountain area, if not the country. His record speaks for itself. And here's this assistant DA, who at that time I don't think had ever tried a murder case in her entire career, and to my knowledge still hasn't, telling him he was too tough for using absolutely STANDARD interrogation techniques that the greenest rookie on the beat would know! Haney's general feeling was, "who the hell does she think SHE is?"

    The finishing touch:

    One of the Ramsey-case veterans who spoke about Keenan only on the condition of anonymity said that her background appeared to affect her attitudes toward the Ramsey case.
    "Right after the (June 1998) interviews, she went in and sat down and spent two hours talking to the Ramseys about their suspicions about Santa Claus," the source said. "It was clear she thought this woman (Patsy Ramsey) was a victim. She is a very pro-woman prosecutor. Her whole life revolves around believing what women say. I think she is so empathetic she couldn't stand to watch someone, in her mind, being victimized."


    The bold is mine. Mary Lacy has allowed her radical feminist beliefs to cloud her judgment, what there is of it. Don't take my word for that. In Thomas's book, he writes,

    "Deputy DA Mary Keenan said the body language of John and Patsy wasn't suggestive of deception, and that men were not in a position to judge Patsy Ramsey's demeanor."

    WTF???!!!

    These are just snippets. Go here for a more comprehensive picture:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5392260&postcount=64"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Jane Valez Mitchell & other Media People Who Know Only Ramsey Spin Let's Educate Them[/ame]


    Here's a longer section of the manuscript:

    She was biased in the favor of the Ramseys because of their status. She has so much as said so. Lacy is known as a radical feminist who lets her belief in women's innocence cloud her reason. She demonstrated that in the University of Colorado case, where, back in 2001, a group of football players were accused of rape. Lacy was gung-ho to prosecute, even though it was clear that there was no case. It was Duke before Duke, where the three lacrosse players were hung out to dry by an overzealous, politically motivated prosecutor. Another incident came in 2006 when a ten-month-old boy named Jason Midyette was beaten to death and she wouldn't take any action because the grandfather owns half of Boulder's Pearl Street Mall. Journalist Frank Coffman describes Lacy as a feminist who is very pro-woman, to the point where it clouds her judgment, as I just showed you. She's also a mother and a career woman. Nothing wrong with that. I'm not one of these "a woman's place is in the home" type guys. I'm secure enough in my manhood to say that if a woman wants it all, she can have it. I just hope she can handle it and she doesn't lose perspective. Since Mrs. Lacy can't keep her own son out of trouble (he was busted for DUI), I'd say she has. I think that Mary Lacy saw Patsy, a wealthy, successful mother and identified with her. She saw this successful, lovely lady being grilled by a bunch of macho male cops and that was it.

    Jeff Shapiro seems to agree with me:

    Journalist Jeff Shapiro writes, "It's no secret that in 1997, when Lacy was a sex-assault prosecutor under then-DA Alex Hunter, she was furious when he did not appoint her to work on the case. Because Hunter and the police shied away from the intruder theory, many law enforcement officials often wonder if Lacy's attempts to prove them wrong are driven more by her personal feelings than by the actual pursuit of justice."

    And that's not even TOUCHING on any of the many OTHER problems. Believe me, the main point of this thread is enough to keep us busy for quite a while!

    So to any IDIs who have read this far, this is your chance. No more diversions. No more strawman arguments. No more projection. No more cracks about RDI monomania. In other words, no BS. Just a straight-forward, no-nonsense decision: Defend ML if you can. Or admit that you've backed a losing horse. It's completely your choice.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  2. #2
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    I'm WAITING!

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wi8Fv0AJA4[/ame]
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  3. #3
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    I'd comment Dave but since I agree with everything you said, I don't think I'd be bringing anything to the table. Excellent thread though, waiting to hear some good feedback!
    "This Time We Get it Right!"

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." Stuart Chase

  4. #4
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    Hi Dave, I had a very interesting night at work last night. One of my patients was a defense attorney. He had some views on things that I found very interesting.

    Suffice to say, that he felt the Ramseys are GUILTY! I wont even begin to tell you what he said about the DA office or how the case was handled.

    Interesting coming from a defense lawyer!

    As for your post, I agree. The problems were around long before Lacy, however, she was the 'frosting on the cake'. Can you believe all the amazing luck that the Ramseys' had on their side? To me it is astounding!
    ___________________

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    I'm WAITING!
    I'm not interested in arguing the pros or cons of the DA or of Mary Keenan/Lacy. You obviously have a grudge against them and I wonder sometimes if you weren't on BPD at some stage, as you seem to defend the cops and blame the DA for the botched investigation. I'd say probably both were responsible, but from my understanding of your system, it's the cops who would do the initial investigation, so I feel this is where the errors began and continued. Whether the DA acted properly or not I don't know and don't really care.

    I'm more interested in looking at evidence (or what we have access to) and trying to piece together some kind of theory on who killed JBR.

    Sorry if this disappoints.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurriFlower View Post
    I'm not interested in arguing the pros or cons of the DA or of Mary Keenan/Lacy. You obviously have a grudge against them and I wonder sometimes if you weren't on BPD at some stage, as you seem to defend the cops and blame the DA for the botched investigation. I'd say probably both were responsible, but from my understanding of your system, it's the cops who would do the initial investigation, so I feel this is where the errors began and continued. Whether the DA acted properly or not I don't know and don't really care.

    I'm more interested in looking at evidence (or what we have access to) and trying to piece together some kind of theory on who killed JBR.

    Sorry if this disappoints.
    You're correct about the police botch-ups. BUT- to say you "don't care" about the DA seems to be incongruous. Yes, the cops do the investigating, but the DA drives the investigation. The DA in this case, seemed to be compromised by forces outside his office. We should ALL care about the behavior of both the cops and the DA. When a DA acts improperly, especially knowingly, justice suffers. The police cannot always overcome such barricades as was thrown at them in this case. Yes, there were investigative mistakes made at the outset. But to say that the DA's actions are inconsequential to that simply do not make sense. Of COURSE it matters what the DA did. BOTH helped put this case into the situation it became.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    You're correct about the police botch-ups. BUT- to say you "don't care" about the DA seems to be incongruous. Yes, the cops do the investigating, but the DA drives the investigation. The DA in this case, seemed to be compromised by forces outside his office. We should ALL care about the behavior of both the cops and the DA. When a DA acts improperly, especially knowingly, justice suffers. The police cannot always overcome such barricades as was thrown at them in this case. Yes, there were investigative mistakes made at the outset. But to say that the DA's actions are inconsequential to that simply do not make sense. Of COURSE it matters what the DA did. BOTH helped put this case into the situation it became.
    It doesn't matter to me because it's happened and is in the past. This is just a blame game, it doesn't help to find clues to solve this, so that's why I'm not interested in debating who was at fault.

  8. #8
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    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case[/ame]

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    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by MurriFlower View Post
    It doesn't matter to me because it's happened and is in the past. This is just a blame game, it doesn't help to find clues to solve this, so that's why I'm not interested in debating who was at fault.
    And meanwhile the most innocent victim JonBenet is still dead in her grave waiting for justice, because NO ONE will accept blame for where this case went south!

    I'm most interested in assigning blame where blame is due in this case. Because until everyone accepts their part of the blame, these mistakes will happen again. And just maybe the truth will come to light.
    "If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you!"

    The above post is my opinion and my opinion only. Please do not copy and past to other forums.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunnieRN View Post
    Hi Dave, I had a very interesting night at work last night. One of my patients was a defense attorney. He had some views on things that I found very interesting.

    Suffice to say, that he felt the Ramseys are GUILTY! I wont even begin to tell you what he said about the DA office or how the case was handled.

    Interesting coming from a defense lawyer!
    That about says it all!

    As for your post, I agree. The problems were around long before Lacy, however, she was the 'frosting on the cake'. Can you believe all the amazing luck that the Ramseys' had on their side? To me it is astounding!
    Astounding isn't the word for it.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurriFlower View Post
    I'm not interested in arguing the pros or cons of the DA or of Mary Keenan/Lacy.
    I certainly don't blame you! It's pretty hard to defend the indefensible.

    You obviously have a grudge against them
    You're damn right!

    and I wonder sometimes if you weren't on BPD at some stage,
    That would be quite a trick, since I was only 15 years old when JB was killed and all the way across the country to boot!

    as you seem to defend the cops and blame the DA for the botched investigation.
    I calls 'em like I sees 'em! I can't not see what's right in front of me, all right?

    I'd say probably both were responsible, but from my understanding of your system, it's the cops who would do the initial investigation, so I feel this is where the errors began and continued.
    You're partly right. Both are to blame in their own way. But it's one thing to blame the cops for mistakes made in good faith. It's another thing altogether to recognize what the DA's office was doing. A bunch of stinking bureaucrats who came too late and stayed too long who were more interested in their public reputations and sticking a thumb in the eye of the police than they were in justice.

    It helps to remember, Murri, that the members of the DA's office were politically left who came of age in the 1960s and imbibed deeply of the anti-police rhetoric that was so popular at that time.

    Whether the DA acted properly or not I don't know
    I figured. That's why I decided to educate people who might not know.

    and don't really care.
    Well, that's a damn shame, Murri. Anyone who actually gives a rat's a** about justice should care a LOT! Because understanding the DA's conduct in this case is paramount to understanding why this case was never solved!

    I'm more interested in looking at evidence (or what we have access to) and trying to piece together some kind of theory on who killed JBR.
    I wish the DA had been interested in that!

    Sorry if this disappoints.
    "Disappointing" is such an inadequate word...
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  12. #12
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    It's clear that Mary Lacy's supporters aren't going to listen to what ACTUAL experienced prosecutors like Michael Kane, Dan Caplis and Craig Silverman have to say about her. If only there was someone HERE who could tell us the raw dirt!
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  13. #13
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    I was trying to post this here and it bumped me to another thread... So, Im trying it again...

    ML,

    Is the poster child for all thats wrong with politics, no matter what party you back. Any person that can defend her clearly has not done their research on Miz L.

    Heres a homework list for you.... http://www.crimerant.com/?p=362

    Baby Jason Midyette, was two months old. He lived in Boulder Co. baby Jason died of head trauma, his autopsy should 27 fractures in various stages of healing. His mothers rich boyfriend had a lawyer before Jason even died. No arrests made, no charges filed. At the time ML was the DA.... It should also be noted, this took place while the JMK circus was taking place....

    http://www.crimerant.com/?p=370

    Lets take a look at Tanner Dowler, a nine week old. Tanner had been beaten to death. His parents were poor. Both were arrested immediately. Just fifteen days after the incident, both were charged and sentenced....

    Just what does money buy you in Boulder? A get out of jail card? Maybe the title of DA? Lets not forget nothing is more corrupted than politicians and/or politics... IMHO!
    _______
    There are things that we don't want to happen but have to accept, things we don't want to know but have to learn, and people we can't live without but have to let go.

  14. #14
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    All of the blame can go on forever...there was a grand jury and they did not indict the R's. Blame them.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peepers View Post
    All of the blame can go on forever...there was a grand jury and they did not indict the R's. Blame them.
    Oh, I do. But there were reasons why that point right back at the DA, so they are also to blame.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

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