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Thread: Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario

  1. #251
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    Violent transient charged with vicious murder of another woman from Hamilton.What is going on there?!

    http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/ar...pkeeper-murder
    Special to the Hamilton...MURDER CHARGES:A 25-year-old man described by police as a “transient” is facing a first degree murder charge in the death of a pregnant shopkeeper, who was brutally attacked and left for dead in the downtown store she owned with her husband eight months ago.
    Hunt for downtown killer down to one man
    .A 25-year-old man described by police as a “transient” is facing a first degree murder charge in the death of a pregnant shopkeeper, who was brutally attacked and left for dead in the downtown store she owned with her husband eight months ago.

    Hamilton police Detective Sergeant Ian Matthews announced the charge against Patrick Sung Tae Smith Friday afternoon, hours after detectives arrested the man “without incident” at a downtown residence.

    Matthews said he believes the accused and victim were strangers to each other and the motive was robbery. Her purse was missing.

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  3. #252
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    I really have to wonder if that murder was not hate-related due to the woman's ethnicity. Absolutely tragic but I'm not getting the sense it was related the Ms. Gleave's death.

    I'm so pleased they caught the alleged killer.

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  5. #253
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    I was just looking at the map at the following site:

    http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...-audrey-gleave

    Does anyone else find it curious that the address given for the "abandoned barn" pinpoints a property which has a number of outbuildings--none of which seem to be abandoned. There seems to be a number of vehicles parked around the property and quite a sense of activity in the area.

    Being that Ms. Gleave's handyman lives within a few blocks of that location, I wonder if he ever picked up that man when he was out walking. That might have been a way for the transient man to have gotten closer to Ms. Gleave's property. I'd wondered why he would seek out a house 5 miles away, if he was on foot.

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  7. #254
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    Does anyone know the exact address of the barn which was searched? I was looking at other crimes committed in the area within the last year of so and found this. This occurred on a street named Sympatica Crescent, which looks to be just blocks away from the barn. I was interested in it as it involves a young man who must have been experiencing some sort of mental break and who was threatening to kill himself while brandishing two large knives. The investigation of the shooting, which occurred in August 2010, was just completed. The officers were cleared of any wrongdoing.

    http://www.brantford.com/news.cfm?pa...articleId=9652


    Being that a commenter on one of the earlier articles talked about "going to that barn until being chased by a man with an axe" (I'm paraphrasing here), I have to wonder what all was going on at that barn. Was this man, EJ, involved with the barn in some way?

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  9. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missizzy View Post
    Does anyone know the exact address of the barn which was searched? I was looking at other crimes committed in the area within the last year of so and found this. This occurred on a street named Sympatica Crescent, which looks to be just blocks away from the barn. I was interested in it as it involves a young man who must have been experiencing some sort of mental break and who was threatening to kill himself while brandishing two large knives. The investigation of the shooting, which occurred in August 2010, was just completed. The officers were cleared of any wrongdoing.

    http://www.brantford.com/news.cfm?pa...articleId=9652


    Being that a commenter on one of the earlier articles talked about "going to that barn until being chased by a man with an axe" (I'm paraphrasing here), I have to wonder what all was going on at that barn. Was this man, EJ, involved with the barn in some way?
    The address of the abandoned farm is 347 Lynden Road. I did see the address in one of the newspaper articles when the search was underway by LE. I took a look and it appears that this property has been in the same family since the 1950's. It is registered in part as being an estate. I would say that the long time owners passed away & it was left to a family member. It states that it is a 'farm without residence'. There would have been an old farmhouse at one time. I'm sure it is abandoned. The photos of the search showed pretty derelict looking buildings. I'm guessing that the owner(s) have just let it go as it may be a site for development down the road. There looks to be quite a bit of development not far from it. Also this farm would not be far from AG's property.
    Just My Opinion

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  11. #256
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    snipped by me. I thought PK lived in Brantford ?? maybe I'm wrong. I 411 and don't find any listing for a P in Ancaster area. Which is not to say he couldn't have given the guy a lift on his way to AG's


    Quote Originally Posted by Missizzy View Post
    I was just looking at the map at the following site:

    http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...-audrey-gleave



    Being that Ms. Gleave's handyman lives within a few blocks of that location, I wonder if he ever picked up that man when he was out walking. That might have been a way for the transient man to have gotten closer to Ms. Gleave's property. I'd wondered why he would seek out a house 5 miles away, if he was on foot.
    ...

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  13. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilyMacBloom View Post
    snipped by me. I thought PK lived in Brantford ?? maybe I'm wrong. I 411 and don't find any listing for a P in Ancaster area. Which is not to say he couldn't have given the guy a lift on his way to AG's
    There is a Brantford address for a PK so I'm pretty sure this would be the right one. It's not far from this address to Lynden Road & therefore Indian Trail.
    Just My Opinion

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  15. #258
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    Thank you, dairydog, but I'm still confused. Ms. Gleave's address was 3401 Indian Trail, Lynden and the barn is at 347 Lynden Rd. Googlemaps shows those two addresses to be 4 miles or 6.3 km apart. Am I incorrect? Maybe I'm not putting in the correct address. Going by the map provided at here:

    http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...-audrey-gleave

    it looks as if the barn is near the cut off for Garden Ave. and Ms. Gleave's property is just before Indian Trail dead-ends into another section of Lynden Rd. I live out in the country and our roads do the same thing--very confusing.

    To my mind, that would be quite a hike for a guy who was walking. It is a straight shot, though, and I suppose someone from the barn could have hitched a ride. Is there bus service in that area?

    I also noticed a comment that I'd missed in an earlier article:

    http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...ured-for-clues

    "....BV, who lives in the area, used to skate on the pond on Gleave's property growing up...."

    I wonder if Ms. Gleave continued to allow children and teens to skate on her pond regularly or if she hosted students at her house. She seemed so private, that statement kind of surprised me. Maybe the privacy is a more recent development.


    A question: Why is Ms. Gleave referred to as a woman from Ancaster when her address comes up as in Lynden? Maybe that explains things.

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  17. #259
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    snipped by me:

    It would be interesting to find out if there is any commonality with regard to the 3 cases. Perhaps the Orangeville and Mono cases are connected but I have a feeling that Ancaster may be too far.[/QUOTE]

    ITA with the above. Right up until the "too far away" . Distance is all relative. Victoria Stafford was driven from Woodstock to Fergus.

    I think it all depends on where one's home base is, where they've lived in the past, worked, took holidays, gone to school, have family etc etc. The list is endless. When I worked my job took me all over the place, farthest being Ottawa.

    If you are in a union, you can be commuting all over the place just to work. (not that I'm a union worker)

    I'm wondering if the connection may have something to do with the medical profession. SV a nurse, (and off hand I forget where all she worked) AG and the poor lady from Mono may have had to see a specialist or day surgery and perp works there, thus having access to all personal information and also could strike up a bit of a conversation.

    I know, don't tell me, I have an over active imagination.
    ...

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  19. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missizzy View Post
    Thank you, dairydog, but I'm still confused. Ms. Gleave's address was 3401 Indian Trail, Lynden and the barn is at 347 Lynden Rd. Googlemaps shows those two addresses to be 4 miles or 6.3 km apart. Am I incorrect? Maybe I'm not putting in the correct address. Going by the map provided at here:

    http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...-audrey-gleave

    it looks as if the barn is near the cut off for Garden Ave. and Ms. Gleave's property is just before Indian Trail dead-ends into another section of Lynden Rd. I live out in the country and our roads do the same thing--very confusing.

    To my mind, that would be quite a hike for a guy who was walking. It is a straight shot, though, and I suppose someone from the barn could have hitched a ride. Is there bus service in that area?

    I also noticed a comment that I'd missed in an earlier article:

    http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...ured-for-clues

    "....BV, who lives in the area, used to skate on the pond on Gleave's property growing up...."

    I wonder if Ms. Gleave continued to allow children and teens to skate on her pond regularly or if she hosted students at her house. She seemed so private, that statement kind of surprised me. Maybe the privacy is a more recent development.


    A question: Why is Ms. Gleave referred to as a woman from Ancaster when her address comes up as in Lynden? Maybe that explains things.
    You're right Missizzy in that it does appear to be about 4 miles from the farm to AG's property. It would indeed be a good hike especially now when it's pretty cold. It may turn out that the abandoned outbuildings play no role in this at all.
    Just My Opinion

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  21. #261
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    Lily--You bring up a valid point. It's been mentioned that Ms. Gleave had problems with her knees and that's why she gave up golf. I wonder if she received some sort of home health care visits. For some reason, that doesn't sound like her but if she was in pain, that could change things. I doubt she was one to complain, given what I've read about her.

    My guess is that she relied on her handyman to take care of things around the house and her friends for companionship. I'm starting to wonder if the shepherds had gotten too much for her. She might have been seeking some sort of sedative for them. I've read that she used a flyswatter to control them but I have a hard time believing that that would keep spirited shepherds in line unless they had been well trained.

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  23. #262
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    From dotr's link concerning profiling serial killers (if this was a serial killing):

    http://www.victimsofviolence.on.ca/r...=362&Itemid=52

    25-35 years of age
    white males (85%) (there have been very few documented cases of female serial killers)
    kill same type of victim in same way
    charming/likable
    possibility of physical deformities (i.e. webbed feet)
    average or above intelligence
    abuse as child/dysfunctional childhood
    psychopaths
    few social attachments
    interest in violent pornography, bondage equipment, detective magazines (83%)
    keep records of offences (53%)
    no arrest histories (57%)
    history of some kind of head/brain injury
    alcohol/drug abuse
    mobile; travel frequently
    follow crime story in media
    like the publicity/notoriety
    kill within their own race
    may return to scene of the crime or burial
    compulsive/obsessive (i.e. multiple showers a day)
    keep souvenirs or body parts of victims
    likely to have been interviewed by the police in the serial killings investigation
    sadistic treatment towards animals as a child
    play with/start fires as a child
    work alone (about 25% of serial killers have a partner or group)

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  25. #263
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    oh dear another missing lady Brenda Duncan

    Lynden to Woodstock as per google 47 mins.

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125340"]CANADA Canada - Brenda Duncan, 57, Woodstock Ontario, 11 Jan 2011 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
    ...

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  27. #264
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    http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/ar...th-threatening
    McMaster student charged with threatening

    A 17-year-old McMaster University student is facing a charge of uttering threats after leaving a note at campus Wednesday.

    Hamilton police would not elaborate on the natures of the note or who it may have targeted, but say it was enough to generate concern from campus security and Hamilton police. It was left in public view.

    Police reacted swiftly, because the campus is a populated area, said Sergeant Terri-Lynn Collings.

    The 17-year-old was held for a bail hearing Thursday.

  28. #265
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    If I read the comments section under the artlice correctly the threatening note was to do with the strike and student frustration.

    Quote Originally Posted by dotr View Post
    http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/ar...th-threatening
    McMaster student charged with threatening

    A 17-year-old McMaster University student is facing a charge of uttering threats after leaving a note at campus Wednesday.

    Hamilton police would not elaborate on the natures of the note or who it may have targeted, but say it was enough to generate concern from campus security and Hamilton police. It was left in public view.

    Police reacted swiftly, because the campus is a populated area, said Sergeant Terri-Lynn Collings.

    The 17-year-old was held for a bail hearing Thursday.
    ...

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  30. #266
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    I was thinking of Audrey's new Camaro, and that it is a vehicle that a young person might be pretty intrigued with. However, I would think if Audrey heard someone in her garage messing with that new car, she wouldn't have opened the garage door without her dogs beside her.

    Thinking of Audrey's personal property, her real estate alone had to be worth quite a bit of money. Do we know who the beneficiaries of her Will are?

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  32. #267
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    That's never been mentioned. Her dear friend, LV, is the executor and donations were requested for the SPCA. Her obituary made it clear that she has no family. The only two survivors mentioned are LV and her friend, PK.

    Wouldn't that be fabulous if she left the property to the SPCA? That would be quite a legacy.

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  34. #268
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    While we wait for forensics results or any update on the investigation, I made a few screenshots from video clips for you to see Missizzy.

    R a i n i n g


    flower beds?

    Not sure why the video shows this view - why is LE tape at that place? was Audrey's body found there?


    These pics show LE collecting "items" ...

    -- http://www.thespec.com/videozone/308661

    -- http://www.chchnews.ca/index.php/home/item/1624
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Hazel; 01-18-2011 at 05:17 PM.
    My posts are merely my humble opinion. Unless you are quoting within Websleuths Forums, you do not have my permission to copy nor use any post made by me for anything.
    ★ Thank you ★

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  36. #269
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    You are so kind, Hazel, thank you. It's probably helpful for others to able to study them too. I'm not sure about the "flower beds". Being that there's a pond so close, those look like stalks of pond rushes. Not sure if they would stay standing during your winters but they do in ours. And the wooded area that is taped off seems to be quite dense. Someone could surely lurk there and observe.

    I just started a very disturbing thread. It's about the "satanic thrill killing" of a 93 year old woman in Wisconsin. Stabbed repeatedly in her home. Very very sad and far more than what I would call dabbling. Murder, clear and simple, with satanism as a motive.

    I still have my concerns about the cemetery being a gathering spot for such things. That's why I asked, upthread, if anyone knew if Ms. Gleave would call LE for something strange going on at the cemetery, if she'd run people off her self or if she'd leave them be. It's entirely possible that, if there were occasional gatherings there, someone had seen her sitting outside to smoke or letting the dogs out. Most people let their dogs out just before bedtime and that could have been a late hour. Not sure what kind of hours she kept.

    Thanks again, Hazel.

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  38. #270
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    {{{Not sure why the video shows this view - why is LE tape at that place? was Audrey's body found there?}}}



    Didn't LE say they founds items believed to be from Audrey's place in the woods.

    They would have taped the area off where they found them.

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  40. #271
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    Just putting it out there ...

    Thinking of cemeteries, satanic activities, "homeless man" David L. S, and the rented barn ... then revisiting some Brantford weirdness from a couple of years ago re the David Lee Roth (Van Halen) imposter, David K of Kitchener/Cambridge area, also known as David P. Angel:

    http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/Art...true&e=1115734

    FWIW, Blinkhorn was found not guilty be reason of insanity.

    One comment stated recently was a person who claimed they used to go to "that barn" until they were chased with an axe. So, who goes to a purportedly abandoned barn and why?

    David K's father (David Sr) and uncle Paul were owners/executives of an established company. Before David Sr died, he said he heard his son was in Chilliwack, BC. Subsequent info was that David Jr was trying to get back to Ontario. Don't know if he made it back, but his uncle Paul suffered a lengthy illness and died Dec 29 2010.

    Might be a long shot, but better than no shot at all. There is still lots of sleuthing going on behind the curtain, but there sure are some interesting dots to follow.

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  42. #272
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    Sillybilly--FWIW, that comment about "going to the barn until a guy chased them with an axe" (paraphrased) was posted following two articles concerning the search of the barn. It makes no sense to me as to why someone would go to a barn, which was abandoned (thus no animals), unless it was for some sort of illegal activity. Was it a place where kids hung out and drank or smoked pot? Was it a place where occult activity took place? A place to store stolen goods? Was it a place for midnight trysts? Why go there if an unstable man with an axe was known to be in residence?

    And I have to wonder why someone would even implicate themselves and say that they used to go there.

    Hmmm. I just checked and I don't see the comment now. This is snipped from my Post #69 on January 5th. I believe I posted it as soon as I saw it. This was from an article on thespec.com:


    Posted by jessie2327:

    "...this barn is a place i used to go until this man chased me with an axe...."

    FWIW, looks like a number of comments (many quite rude) have been removed.



    It's still here, though, posted on the 5th:

    http://brantfordexpositor.ca/Article...aspx?e=2913418

    by the same person. This is where the comment about the basement is.

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  44. #273
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    Keep up the great work you guys and gals, you're doing a great job of thinking outside the box and being creative, that's all we have at the moment. I hope forensics will provide results ASAP. I'm still working up a theory trying to prove/disprove that AG, Sonia, Shelley, Brenda's crimes are or are not related, regardless of distance. Which is all of about an hour driving distance. So far I've come up with maybe a commonality of McMaster alumni. Along with some other incidental stuff.

    God bless all the victims and their families.
    ...

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  46. #274
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    Tragic proof that this crime can be relatively random but check out the similarities with Ms. Gleave's death. I don't think we're supposed to "double post", so go to the thread here:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125614"]WI~"Satanic Thrill Killer", Austin Davis Sentenced for murder of 93 yr. old - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

    and read Posts #2 and 4. Quite eery, if you ask me.

  47. #275
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    I note on Audrey's condolences page that a well-known photographer named JH seemed to know Audrey quite well. He was the one that informed her that her nickname "baryon" was a subatomic particle. I believe AG prolly already knew what it meant, but was far too polite to let on.

    http://beckettglaves.frontrunnerpro....&ItemId=619536

    I remember lots of big names in Kitchener-Waterloo from back in the day (don't ask what day ). Seems a JH went to St. Jeromes in Kitchener where at least one member of the well-known Kuntz family attended. A lot of JH's pics of St. Jeromes are on the internet:

    http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&biw=801&...f1fb23c985c996

    According to his obituary, David K's uncle Paul that died on Dec 29 attended St. Jeromes as well:

    http://www.therecord.com/news/busine...conomic-storms

    Don't know how Audrey knew JH, but it does seem to have the potential for a connection between Audrey and the bizarre imposter DK.
    Last edited by sillybilly; 01-19-2011 at 12:15 AM. Reason: fix link

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