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  1. #196
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    From sillybilly's link.

    Investigators have been sharing information on the killing with other police forces, but have not yet taken a hard look at other unsolved murders in the region.

    “Because we’re still in the early parts of our investigation and we don’t have a complete picture, we can’t really compare our crime to other crimes with the most information available,” Hrab said.

    Maybe the perp really is someone unknown to AG and perhaps (as Sillyb. previously suggested ), possibly some connection to the S,V and S.L case in Orangeville?
    Thinking of the word orange,the dark film about violent youth, " A Clockwork Orange"
    comes to mind.


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  3. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by sillybilly View Post
    <snip>

    Was she paranoid, or simply taking appropriate precautions given a specific situation? With 4 computers, i'd say Audrey had an online presence somewhere, for some reasons. Maybe Audrey was angry at BIL because FF got her contact info through emails. Yep, banning the BIL was pretty harsh and unforgiving, wasn't it? I'm curious as to when that happened, because Audrey's ex says he hadn't spoken with her since 1976. Seems either Audrey banned the BIL many years ago, or remained in touch with the BIL even after she last spoke with her ex-husband.

    I almost wasn't going to make the following statements out of respect for Audrey, but ... I don't think there's any doubt that Audrey had and has everyone's respect. It is what she experienced at the hands of a monster that is the only disrespectful issue in this case. So, on a very sensitive topic, and in as respectful a fashion as I can ... I wonder what constitutes "sexual assault" according to the ME. Considering the exceptional degree of horror that seems to be associated with Audrey's murder, I'm wondering if the sexual component of her death differs somewhat from what we would normally think of as a sexual assault.
    The articles I've read have used the word paranoid, and based on her (alleged) behaviour, I have to agree. Didn't she have two friends in the same area, but made sure they didn't know about each other? I know there's a link to that info in here somewhere. Given that she had regular coffee dates with acquaintances, I assume those two weren't included.

    I wonder if all 4 computers worked, or if some were old ones that could no longer be used. It seems pointless to keep computers that are useless, but maybe her tech knowledge, coupled with her intense need for privacy, prevented her from throwing them out. It's nearly impossible to wipe computers clean, right? I have no idea what she could have been doing, either online or offline, but it might have been something Audrey felt she needed to hide. I wonder if she had more than one email address. Or perhaps she changed the original when she believed her former brother-in-law had revealed it to others? I could be getting this information mixed up, but didn't Audrey get upset when her emails were forwarded to others with her address still attached? She cut the BIL out of her life entirely because she believed he gave it away, but it sounds as though she didn't react the same way regarding the forwarding. I'll have to go back and read the newspaper articles, since I can only remember her neighbour being connected with the email stuff.

    Did Audrey's neighbour ever comment on the "Amazing Grace" message? I'd love to know if it fit in with the type of stuff Audrey usually sent her, or if it struck her as unusual. Was there a specific time of day that she would send email? I know it wasn't something she did all the time, but when she did, maybe it was part of her schedule.


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  5. #198
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    I think the word paranoid needs to be taken in context. I happen to believe, JMO, that Ms. Gleave, had some level of Spectrum disorder. Absolutely everything I've read points in that direction. Notice in the photos of her that she never hugs anyone else but they hug her. She was a bit uncomfortable in social settings and in reading social cues. That just made her unique. I have several children on the Spectrum and know a number of tremendously bright people with this diagnosis. As I've said before, this is not a disrespectful comment about her personality but a measured observation. She was bright, private, a little quirky. Ms. Gleave liked to feel in control of the situation. I know exactly how that comes across.

    It's highly possible that when cornered or threatened, she over-reacted. I'm not "blaming" her in any way for her demise. Hardly. I just know what happens when you corner someone with Asperger's or high functioning autism. They can literally go off the deep end. I see it as a possibility that someone confronted her and her response was more than they expected or could deal with. Things might have gotten uglier than initially planned. Just an observation.

    And Sillybilly, thank you for the info on shepherds. I've done rescue of elder and disabled poodles and chihuahuas for years so my experience is very different. I certainly would never sedate an animal for my comfort but I've adopted animals who were regularly sedated--usually with Benadryl or something similar. And that can be purchased at any drug store. I fully understand that shepherds are not "barky" but I also recall how Ms. Gleave's best friend felt intimidated by them. She might not be a dog person or the dogs might be poorly socialized. I still wonder if anyone knows if she's always kept shepherds or if she's had a variety of breeds. I have to say that I was a little taken back when the vet said that they "wouldn't be euthanized". With the number of wonderful rescue groups in the states and in Canada, I wouldn't think so. My goodness. We once adopted a blind, deaf, three-legged and toothless 18 year old poodle after her owner passed. Gave that little girl another 2 years of absolute spoiling and hospice care. No doubt there is a placement for these two dogs.


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  7. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by eachandevery View Post
    The articles I've read have used the word paranoid, and based on her (alleged) behaviour, I have to agree. Didn't she have two friends in the same area, but made sure they didn't know about each other? I know there's a link to that info in here somewhere. Given that she had regular coffee dates with acquaintances, I assume those two weren't included.
    <snip>

    Audrey was referred to by her ex-husband as "protective of her private life because she lived alone". I didn't interpret that Audrey "made sure" the two friends didn't meet ... it was simply a stated fact that they hadn't. I have a variety of friends, some of whom I would not dream of putting together based on differences in personalities.

    The regular Wednesday coffee get-together was a group of retired Westdale
    teachers. It is understandable that she would not invite others to that specific group.


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  9. #200
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    I guess I had missed this. I knew that Ms. Gleave sent her friends occasional emails but this explains that she included neighbors:

    http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/ar...lling-of-woman

    "...A couple of years ago, Gleave asked for the F’s [neighbors] email address, and after that she would occasionally pass on jokes, riddles and Internet links.

    The last email Mr. F received from Gleave was on Monday night, when she passed on a link to a version of “Amazing Grace.”

    That is the last time police believe anyone who knew Gleave had contact with her.

    No neighbours reported seeing or hearing anything suspicious over the past few days. But the Fs’ dogs suddenly began barking wildly around 2:30 a.m. Wednesday.

    On Friday, Hamilton police and OPP were searching Gleave’s property, which is surrounded by dense forest, with a cemetery on one side...."

    more at link

    Unless the emails were sent individually, I would think all her friends received the same message at the same time....Monday night. The soup was brought to her Monday Morning. Surely, if she was out and about sometime Monday afternoon or evening, I'd think someone would have recognized her car. This is pretty clear that her whereabouts are just not clearly known, or reported, from Monday morning through Thursday.
    Last edited by Salem; 01-14-2011 at 08:40 PM. Reason: per user request


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  11. #201
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    I was just looking to see if there have been any unsolved or well known murders in the past in Hamilton/Ancaster. I must apologize as I really don't know the local history. I came upon a "paranormal" sight which is quite sensationalistic but wanted to post these two cases. I've followed them up with links which are a bit more "tame". I have to wonder if Ms. Gleave could have been touched by any of these horrible murders and harbored a secret that she might have been prepared to tell. In each story, there are a number of Jane Does or unidentified people. Does the song, "Amazing Grace" have any connection to these deaths? I'll do some further research tomorrow:

    http://www.burlingtonghostwalks.ca/mystery.htm

    Evelyn Dick - Black Dahlia Murderer In Hamilton

    "In 1946 she was arrested for murder after local children in Hamilton, Ontario found the torso of her missing estranged husband. The head and limbs had been sawn from his body and evidence that they had been burned in the furnace of her home later surfaced. She was convicted of the murder in 1946 and sentenced to hang. However, lawyer J.J. Robinette appealed her case and won an eventual acquittal. However, in the meantime, the decayed remains of Evelyn's baby boy were found encased in cement under the floor boards of her home. She was convicted of the murder in 1947 and sentenced to 11 years in prison. Evelyn was released from prison in 1958 and quickly disappeared from public view. A series of serial murders started again shortly after her release where torso's of bodies were showing up in fields in different parts of Hamilton. No suspects could ever be found of the murders and the victims were never identified due to the heads and arms were missing. To this day, the mysterious murders are still unsolved."

    and

    "...Karla Homolka sought psychics to conduct an exorcism or whatever it would take to get rid of ghosts in the basement of her home where Leslie Mahaffy was dismembered. In 1993, Patrick received a frantic call on his office answering machine from a woman who needed someone to conduct an exorcism. The name that was left said, "This is Karla Homolka, Pleassse Call Karla!, I need your help!" This article later mysteriously disappeared and was wiped from the newspaper's archives. There is no record of Karla's Ghosts or Hauntings and over 1,000 court pages documenting her experiences are said to be sealed and locked away from the trial evidence. Just what are in those pages of her psychic sessions? Some of the sealed court documents are believed to include details of Karla's haunting experiences including performing Satanic Rituals and drinking human blood ...."

    [photo of original article shown]

    more at link


    Also:

    http://www.factualtv.com/documentary...rious-Mrs-Dick

    ‘She was a femme fatale, she was the Mata Hari, the person we most loved to hate, or hated to love, or something like that... but in most peoples eyes she was a horrendous murderess.' So begins the story of Evelyn Dick, sentenced to hang for the murder of her streetcar driver husband, John Dick. She was acquitted on an appeal that launched the career of Canada's most famous criminal lawyer J. J. Robinette. Evelyn eventually served 11 years of a life sentence for the murder of her infant son whose body was found encased in cement during the investigation of her husband's murder. Then with a new identity, she disappeared.

    And:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Mahaffy

    "Leslie Erin Mahaffy (July 5, 1976 – June 16, 1991) was a teenaged female student, resident of Burlington, Ontario, Canada, who was murdered by serial killers Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka...."

    and

    "....Homolka, a veterinary technician, had access to sedative drugs which were used to subdue Mahaffy, the same technique the pair used in the rape of Homolka's sister six months before; the drugs used to murder and rape the 15 year old child...."

    more at link

    (I need to look at some sweet photos of kittens and puppies after reading that and before going to bed)
    Last edited by KateB; 06-14-2015 at 12:15 PM. Reason: repair url tag.


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  13. #202
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    There is an unsolved murder(s) in Ancaster that I am pretty sure is not related. The couple who were murdered had a daughter who was my sons JK teacher at the time.

    http://www.hamiltonpolice.on.ca/HPS/...ynngilbank.htm


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  15. #203
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    Most recent.
    http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...gleave-killing
    Hrab said investigators are ďvery busyĒ following up on a number of tips they received about suspicious activities in the time surrounding Gleaveís murder.

    ďItís prudent for (people) to be cautious and vigilant because we havenít made an arrest. Iím not discounting anything.Ē


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  17. #204
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    conflicted

    I donít think Iím the only one confused by the terms that seem to get interchanged. Sexual assault and sexual component . Iím not sure what exactly the difference is but to my mind one doesnít seem to equate the other.
    On the diff between her body being discovered either inside the house or outside. Iím wondering if this might have started out to be an attempted theft of her Camaro and there was a confrontation in the garage. Thereby, one might say inside, another might say outside?
    Iíve also been thinking about the following possibility. A was a Master bridge player. Iím wondering if she played bridge on-line against other players in a ďchatĒ room type site. There are boxes you can type into and over many months or even years of playing against/with the same people. Maybe she made arrangements to meet and the person turned out to be a horrible nut case.
    I know, Iíve been accused of having an over active imagination before.
    ...


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  19. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by sillybilly View Post
    <snip>

    Audrey was referred to by her ex-husband as "protective of her private life because she lived alone". I didn't interpret that Audrey "made sure" the two friends didn't meet ... it was simply a stated fact that they hadn't. I have a variety of friends, some of whom I would not dream of putting together based on differences in personalities.

    The regular Wednesday coffee get-together was a group of retired Westdale
    teachers. It is understandable that she would not invite others to that specific group.
    Thanks for the info. I took the friend stuff a different way, but your interpretation makes more sense.


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  21. #206
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    Seems we have conflicting info on whether Audrey was found inside/outside, whether items were/weren't taken. Am wondering if LE is intentionally trying to muddy the waters somewhat:

    http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/ar...icious-killing

    There are items missing from Audrey's house, he says. What they are, he won't say. Valuables? Trophies?

    Some items have been found during the ground searches. He again won't say what they are and adds detectives do not know for sure they relate to the homicide.
    <bbm>

    PS: I've been very, very negligent with the "Thanks" button these days in the various threads as i'm zipping around too much, too many places, and hope it is not interpreted as discourteous. Goes without saying that anyone who is here, whether we all agree or not, is trying to help ... and for that, we can all be thankful. Surely we can find an emoticon for "Blanket Thanks".


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  23. #207
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    Lily--I believe someone, maybe even you, commented that she took up bridge on-line as no one was sharp enough to beat her. I don't think your theory is off base at all.

    Heather Thompson of Oregon who was murdered last August also had an online presence. She sold Tarot type "readings" via Ebay and through an online psychic site. She was on line with a client just hours before she went missing. She told the client she was going with a friend to another town on a day trip but there's really no evidence that she went. Her body was found a couple of days later but there are still lots of mysteries and questions, and it's been over 5 months. Heather also had a beloved shepherd, Louie, who was always at her side. Heather's vehicle was also towed even though LE stated that her body was found in the house (or property, depending on the source). We have a long thread about her murder and even one of her former "clients" on board. The client has said that Heather was very friendly and open and probably shared more than she should have. She was not hard to trace at all, for any of us. She was extremely trusting. FWIW, Heather was only 39 and quite attractive--not that it should matter.

    I realize that Ms. Gleave was quite the opposite as far as privacy but it is entirely possible that someone she met through the internet attempted to contact her. That might be why she was so upset about her email address getting out. She might have had a sense that someone was stalking her.

    I asked, way upthread, if anyone knew if Ms. Gleave ever called police for help or if she took care of matters herself. Would she have reported frightening or threatening emails? That could be pertinent.


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  25. #208
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    Seems the Stenabaugh Cemetery has it's own strange tales to tell (scroll down near bottom):

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=ca


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  27. #209
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    I just checked and can't find who made the comment about bridge. Lily posted that she'd given up playing with people and preferred the on-line play, per a friend's comment. Maybe I surmised that that was due to her skill.

    Anyway, while looking for the bridge comment, I came across this. Another "splitting hairs" comment about the sexual assault/component:

    http://swo.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/C...1/?hub=SWOHome

    Dec. 31, 2010

    "Investigators said Gleave probably didn't know her attackers, and the crime may have been sexually motivated."

    Granted, this was very early on but the "sexual component" is already there. Are they meaning her clothes were removed, that there were injuries or some sort of hate crime as mentioned upthread related to her sex? A word scrawled nearby about her sexual identity or her orientation?

    I'm also flummoxed as to how the police can be so darn certain that Ms. Gleave did not know her attacker/s. That theme has been there since the very first day. How do they know this? What are some possibilities which could lead them to this conclusion?

    As an example; I'm a middled aged Caucasian woman--very light skinned and very petite. If I was out somewhere (how I wish) and standing with a large number of large and boisterous black men (including two known well by LE), I guess police could wonder if I knew them. They might watch me for a moment and be a bit surprised when each reached over and gave me a kiss. Well, they're my sons!!

    Ms. Gleave taught school for many years. No doubt she taught kids of different races, with different interests, of different sexual orientations. I just don't see how the police can make this statement, over and over, with such certainty. Being that she didn't have children, could the crime have been committed in such a way as to point to very young people? Possibly then they might say she wouldn't have known her attackers. I find it very perplexing. Or are they far more knowing that we grasp and just throwing that out there? Is the person someone quite close?

    I'm going to assume from everything I've read that local LE have every reason to have been respectful of Ms. Gleave. She surely doesn't seem to have a record or run-ins with the police. That said, I'm brought back around to one of my first thoughts...some sort of occult ritual connected with the holidays and the nearby cemetery. No doubt, LE would immediately see her as an unfortunate victim who got pulled into some sort of evil by no action of her own....other than maybe walking outside at the wrong time.


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  29. #210
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    In Post #25, I linked to this site:

    http://www.myspace.com/hauntedhamilton

    That story, and a number of others is on that site. There's also some links upthread to the graves at Stenabaugh (some are as old as the mid 1800s while other are recent) and links to paranormal and frightening events at the Ancaster Pet Cemetery. Seems like this area is know for some spooky goings-on.

    The reason I initially brought it up is that strange occult gatherings surely occur with great regularity in older cemeteries. I think it's most definitely of concern. That was one of the reasons I wondered if Ms. Gleave had ever mentioned to friends that she had to run people off who cut through her property to the cemetery or if she allowed the dogs to "move" people along.


    ETA: Here's the link again to the cemetery's graves. I was looking for any person who died on or about 12/27 and found a two year child who died in the 1960s. This is horrible but we have a number of threads concerning occult practices and rituals and grave robbing around certain "high" dates. The 27th is not known to me to be one of those days, but Christmas is. I use three separate ritual date calendars available on the internet. The fact that there was a lunar eclipse, electromagnetic "break", and meteor shower that week also ups the ante as far as being a high risk time for cemeteries. These are subjects of which I knew nothing a few years ago. Researching the disappearance of Randy Leach of Kansas led me down these paths. I don't care if the people are "dabbling" or serious practitioners of satanic acts, if violence takes place, the practice comes under scrutiny for me. Here's the link:

    http://www.interment.net/data/canada...stenabaugh.htm
    Last edited by Missizzy; 01-14-2011 at 06:23 PM.


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