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Thread: ID - Lewiston, WhtMale 1180UMID, 24-26, In Cemetary-Illegal Burial, Sep'89

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    ID - Lewiston, WhtMale 1180UMID, 24-26, In Cemetary-Illegal Burial, Sep'89

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1180umid.html

    Unidentified White Male

    * The victim was discovered on September 21, 1989 in Lewiston, Idaho
    * Estimated Date of Death: less than 10 years prior
    * Skeletal Remains

    Vital Statistics

    * Estimated age: 24-26 years old
    * Approximate Height and Weight: 5'8"
    * Distinguishing Characteristics: The size and shape of the bones indicated the person had performed heavy lifting during his lifetime.
    * Dentals: Available.

    Case History

    The victim was located buried in an unmarked and shallow grave at the Normal Hill Cemetery. This man likely wouldn't have been found had grave diggers not discovered his bones while preparing another plot for burial on September 21, 1989. The cemetery began digging a hole for a plot, which no one was supposed to be in, they got down not very far and discovered some bones.

    Buried 2 feet down and without a casket, the bones were conspicuous from the beginning.

    The man had been buried in a north-south direction adjacent to other graves, while plots are buried on an east-west diagram in the cemetery.
    Cemetery workers at first suspected they had discovered the bones of a person previously buried legitimately at the cemetery. But the relatively young age of the remains, buried within 10 years of their discovery in 1989, made it nearly impossible for the man to have escaped cemetery record-keeping. And police note that a change in the law in the 1960s led to the requirement that all deceased subjects be buried in a vault or casket.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 07-02-2013 at 01:31 AM.

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    I'm not sure if he was heavy due to weight lifting; but he looks like a "solid" guy considering his stature/vitals. Time-line is about 9 years from disappearance to discovery of the UID. Thoughts?

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1249dmnv.html

    Glenn Patrick Carroll
    Missing since July 20, 1980 from Ely, White Pine County, Nevada.
    Classification: Missing

    Vital Statistics

    * Date Of Birth: February 23, 1952
    * Age at Time of Disappearance: 28 years old
    * Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'8"; 220 lbs.
    * Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Brown hair; brown eyes.
    * Other Identifiers: Wears dark brown rimmed glasses and could possibly have a one month growth of beard.
    * Dentals: Dental X-rays available
    * DNA: Not available

    Circumstances of Disappearance

    Carroll was last seen on July 20, 1980 in Ely, NV. His car was found abandoned about 60 miles west of Ely.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1249dmnv.html

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    I did not see a Namus profile for the UID so I have no way of knowing if there are any rule-outs.

    The date of death is wide open yet oddly they give a limited range of the age of the UID. this guy rises to the top of my list - James Francis Schroeder, lka Sept 25, 1982 age 22, last seen in Grangeville, ID. He was 5'8 which is the estimated height of the UID:

    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/2074/20/

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    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    I did not see a Namus profile for the UID so I have no way of knowing if there are any rule-outs.

    The date of death is wide open yet oddly they give a limited range of the age of the UID. this guy rises to the top of my list - James Francis Schroeder, lka Sept 25, 1982 age 22, last seen in Grangeville, ID. He was 5'8 which is the estimated height of the UID:

    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/2074/20/
    This one might be pretty tough to crack. When I saw this, I was thinking that his family probably didn't have any money, and buried him in the cemetery in the middle of the night without paying the cemetery. Even if it was not his family, I would guess that he was not reported missing.

    I kind of doubt that a murderer would go through the trouble of burying a victim in a cemetery. I've seen instances where bodies were dumped above ground near a cemetery (e.g., Princess Doe), but not buried among the properly buried bodies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    This one might be pretty tough to crack. When I saw this, I was thinking that his family probably didn't have any money, and buried him in the cemetery in the middle of the night without paying the cemetery. Even if it was not his family, I would guess that he was not reported missing.

    I kind of doubt that a murderer would go through the trouble of burying a victim in a cemetery. I've seen instances where bodies were dumped above ground near a cemetery (e.g., Princess Doe), but not buried among the properly buried bodies.
    It's pretty weird either way. I don't know, IMO it would be rather creative for a murderer to bury a victim in an unmarked grave, in a graveyard. You'd think whoever buried this gentleman had to literally cover up the entire burial via grass/sod etc....it was in a plot that was suppose to be empty.
    Last edited by masnitram; 01-01-2011 at 07:06 PM. Reason: articulation is difficult for me today..grrrr

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    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    I did not see a Namus profile for the UID so I have no way of knowing if there are any rule-outs.

    The date of death is wide open yet oddly they give a limited range of the age of the UID. this guy rises to the top of my list - James Francis Schroeder, lka Sept 25, 1982 age 22, last seen in Grangeville, ID. He was 5'8 which is the estimated height of the UID:

    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/2074/20/
    Yeah, the case isn't listed in Namus. Geographically James Schroeder makes sense. What bugs me a little is that he is only listed as 148lbs...not really what I would first think of when hearing about a "heavy lifting" bone structure. James seems a bit to normal/average...but anything is possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by masnitram View Post
    Yeah, the case isn't listed in Namus. Geographically James Schroeder makes sense. What bugs me a little is that he is only listed as 148lbs...not really what I would first think of when hearing about a "heavy lifting" bone structure. James seems a bit to normal/average...but anything is possible.

    I was thinking the same thing. I wouldn't think at 5'8, 148lbs would be someone that would like they did heavy lifting (or a stocky build)

    On the other hand, Patrick Carroll picture kind of gave me reason to believe that he could have been a heavy lifter (his neck is thick, looks like broad built shoulder, from what I can tell) something heavy lifters tend to get.

    Yes for a girl, I am in the fitness industry..LOL

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    I'm not sure how the bones dictated the comment that he lifted heavy things. it does not mean he was a weight lifter as the thread heading implies, just that he lifted heavy things so he could have been a construction worker.

    there is no photo anywhere that I've seen of Schroeder so I have no idea what he looked like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    I'm not sure how the bones dictated the comment that he lifted heavy things. it does not mean he was a weight lifter as the thread heading implies, just that he lifted heavy things so he could have been a construction worker.

    there is no photo anywhere that I've seen of Schroeder so I have no idea what he looked like.
    After I posted, I was wondering how they could tell by the bones about the UID lifting heavy things.. Some of the descriptions they give of UID's baffle me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chaddylex View Post
    After I posted, I was wondering how they could tell by the bones about the UID lifting heavy things.. Some of the descriptions they give of UID's baffle me!
    The locations on the bones where the tendons attach are more developed for muscular people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    The locations on the bones where the tendons attach are more developed for muscular people.
    That makes sense, then I would think he would probably be a weightlifter? Like I thought before.. don't mind me babbling?

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    Ely, NV and Lewiston, ID are about 681.5 from each other and about an 11 hour drive (according to Yahoo Maps). Did Glenn Carroll have ties to Lewiston, ID?

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    I just came across this article from yesterday...

    http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...daho_inte.html

    County officials in Idaho intend to cremate remains of unidentified man unearthed in 1989

    The Associated Press By The Associated Press
    on December 18, 2012 at 2:36 PM, updated December 18, 2012 at 2:43 PM

    LEWISTON, Idaho -- Officials in northern Idaho say they intend to finally cremate the remains of an unidentified man whose bones were discovered more than 23 years ago in a Lewiston cemetery.

    ...
    More at the link above but it's a rather small article so didn't want to quote too much. It does mention DNA samples will be taken to the University of North Texas Center for Human Identification in case they find a possible match.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctaylor View Post
    I just came across this article from yesterday...

    http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...daho_inte.html



    More at the link above but it's a rather small article so didn't want to quote too much. It does mention DNA samples will be taken to the University of North Texas Center for Human Identification in case they find a possible match.

    Thanks for posting this. Here's to hoping there is a CODIS hit in the future because the authorities closed this case a long time ago. And by the sounds of it, haven't been and won't be looking at solving it any other way.

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    Am I correct in assuming that Steven Pearsall has been eliminated. He went missing 9/2/82 along with two women. This is the Lewiston Civic Theater mystery. He is probably the highest profile missing person in Nw Idaho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kemo View Post
    Am I correct in assuming that Steven Pearsall has been eliminated. He went missing 9/2/82 along with two women. This is the Lewiston Civic Theater mystery. He is probably the highest profile missing person in Nw Idaho.
    I don't know. The UID is estimated to a lot shorter (5'8") than Steven Pearsall is 6'3" (per NamUs https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/2071/10). The UID isn't listed on NamUs, but the Doe Network says that his dentals are available and the newspaper article said that DNA was also obtained. According to NamUs, Steven Pearsall's dentals and DNA are also available, so it sounds like they can be compared fairly easily if they haven't been already.

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    I ran across another missing person from Idaho named Clemente Godina. He was 27 and about 5'9" and 160 lbs with brown hair and brown eyes when he went missing in 1987.
    https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/2140/3
    I wonder if he could be a possibility?

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    This UID is now in NamUs (unfortunately, there are no rule outs listed and not very much information given about him about him) --

    https://identifyus.org/cases/10897

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    My first thought was that it was a burial by a family who could not afford a proper burial and casket. Then, why would they have chosen that particular cemetery?
    I would guess either because it was convenient (close to where they lived) or because other family members had been buried there before and they wanted him to be in the same place. It is right in the middle of town, it could have been a challenge to do a burial without being seen.

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    It would seem from the lack of a mention anywhere, he was buried nude??

    Nothing necessarily states that this was a murder (i.e. C-O-D). It could be that this was an overdose, car accident victim, etc where the witnesses "freaked" and tried to hide it.
    It could have been a migrant worker (not sure about ID, but they're mainly farm workers in KY). They could perhaps be "built" from hard work. It would be hard to notice the disappearance of someone who moves around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bflocket View Post
    It would seem from the lack of a mention anywhere, he was buried nude??

    Nothing necessarily states that this was a murder (i.e. C-O-D). It could be that this was an overdose, car accident victim, etc where the witnesses "freaked" and tried to hide it.
    It could have been a migrant worker (not sure about ID, but they're mainly farm workers in KY). They could perhaps be "built" from hard work. It would be hard to notice the disappearance of someone who moves around.
    Yeah, you would think that there would be at least traces of clothing. And if he was buried nude that makes it significantly less likely that it was just a family who couldn't afford a funeral.
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

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    If he were indeed nude, it would make the other things I said less likely as well...

    Even if a friend OD'ed or it were an accident victim or something, I still don't see where the lack of clothing comes into play. Even it it was a shoddy burial, clothing should still be there as he wouldn't have been exposed to the elements (rain, heat, animals, etc).

    He may not have even been nude. But even in the most simple entries (ie very little info known or handed over by authorities) on Doe/NamUs/etc have something about clothing or lack thereof. That there is no mention of clothing whatsoever is strange.

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    There is now a reconstruction of this person on his NamUs page --

    https://identifyus.org/cases/10897

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    Quote Originally Posted by masnitram View Post
    It's pretty weird either way. I don't know, IMO it would be rather creative for a murderer to bury a victim in an unmarked grave, in a graveyard. You'd think whoever buried this gentleman had to literally cover up the entire burial via grass/sod etc....it was in a plot that was suppose to be empty.
    This makes me think of Mickey Shunick -- Brandon Lavergne buried her at a rural Louisiana cemetery -- kind of just outside the boundaries, I think, but still ...

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