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Thread: NY - New York City, BlkMale (UP5977), 35-45, In Hudson River, Sep'01

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    NY - New York City, BlkMale (UP5977), 35-45, In Hudson River, Sep'01

    Thoughts everyone? The UID was found in the Hudson River the same day Mr. Lyons went missing. The foreheads on the two really stand out with the same unusual bumpiness. Good on demographics. Good facial similarity. This is another one that seems way too simple.

    Ernest Lyons:
    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/lyons_ernest.html

    http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/nypd/im...nest_lyons.jpg

    WARNING! MORGUE PHOTOGRAPHS!
    https://identifyus.org/cases/5977

    https://identifyus.org/medias/full/5502
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 04-08-2013 at 11:55 PM. Reason: update prefix and thread title
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    Really good match. You should report this. Scar on left knee, this must be him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbird View Post
    Really good match. You should report this. Scar on left knee, this must be him.
    I hadn't even noticed the knee thing! I really have to wonder if the cases aren't being updated or something.
    The more I get to know some people, the more I like my cats!

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    Wow! How has this gone nearly ten years unmatched? The proximity to 9-11 I supposed. This is almost certainly the same guy. Hope so for the sake of his family.

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    the lips and eyebrows are exactly the same too.

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    Think you'll probably learn you've made a match that will bring this man's family long-awaited closure.
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    Well, I see the NamUs file was modified in June of 2010, so I'm going to say he's still unidentified.
    Last edited by Snufamonbobball; 01-05-2011 at 12:51 AM.
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    Yeah, that's him. They have the same vertical scar above the right (viewer's left) corner of the mouth.

    Dang, Snuf. You're on a roll.

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    Their foreheads are a match. Each lump and bump are on both. The scar on the left knee, same again. The demographics are spot on. I keep trying to talk myself out of this potential match- it seems hard to imagine this match hasn't been looked into before.
    The more I get to know some people, the more I like my cats!

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    They also have the same side-by side blemishes on the right (viewer's left) cheekbone.

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    Wow, you've made two very strong matches in two days! I think this will turn out to be the same person and I also think marycarney was correct; the NYPD was most likely forced to set aside this case while they dealt with the recovery mission at the WTC.
    <-- Watched one too many Hanna-Barbera "teenage detective" cartoons as a kid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tatertot View Post
    Wow, you've made two very strong matches in two days! I think this will turn out to be the same person and I also think marycarney was correct; the NYPD was most likely forced to set aside this case while they dealt with the recovery mission at the WTC.


    I agree with tatertot. I think you'll find this is a match Snufamonbobball. I'd definatetly submit if you haven't already.

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    Mr. Lyons has been submitted. I spoke with a detective regarding him, and this is still an open case, but hopefully not for much longer.

    Fingers Crossed!
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    Great job Snufamonbobball!

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    I agree with Carl, you are on a roll!!! Wow!!! It has to be a match!!! Great job!

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    Great job! If this is Earnest which I believe it is...his family has been waiting and wondering for so long. His case may have been lost in the piles of people reported missing on 9/11....so sad. Thanks Snuf...so glad you made this match!

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    ME told me that this is a possible match they know about already, but they've run into roadblocks in the identification. It's one of the "we know it's him, but we can't prove it 100% -so, it'll remain an open investigation" cases.

    At least we know he's been submitted and they're aware of the cases.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snufamonbobball View Post
    ME told me that this is a possible match they know about already, but they've run into roadblocks in the identification. It's one of the "we know it's him, but we can't prove it 100% -so, it'll remain an open investigation" cases.

    At least we know he's been submitted and they're aware of the cases.
    I wonder what kind of roadblock they could possibly be running into?? It is obviously him. Am I understanding the dates correct in NAMUS? The body was found September 12, 2001 at 12:00 AM, but the case was 'created' in NAMUS September 28, 2009 at 10:53 AM??? Eight years to enter the case into NAMUS??? Oh, Snuf, awesome job, by the way!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reannan View Post
    I wonder what kind of roadblock they could possibly be running into?? It is obviously him.
    One would think that given how recent the cases is and the condition of the body, that all of the identifiers (Dentals, DNA, and Fingerprints) would be avaiable for the UID. However, NamUs indicates that fingerprints aren't available, Dentals are available, but not entered, and DNA is in FBI NMPDD (which is the missing persons and UID component of CODIS).

    It could be that they are unable to locate maternal relatives for a DNA test and cannot locate his dental records. It also might be that he was raised by an adoptive family.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reannan View Post
    Am I understanding the dates correct in NAMUS? The body was found September 12, 2001 at 12:00 AM, but the case was 'created' in NAMUS September 28, 2009 at 10:53 AM??? Eight years to enter the case into NAMUS??? Oh, Snuf, awesome job, by the way!!!
    It's only recently that NYC started inputting all of their UID cases into NamUs.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 01-06-2011 at 11:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    It's only recently that NYC started inputting all of their UID cases into NamUs.
    Snipped by me... Wow!!! It will never cease to amaze me how many people are missing and how many cases are just not "out there" yet! The internet is a constantly evolving resource, and it is the reason that people like you and Snuf are SO important to the effort to match UID's with Missing People!!! I would LOVE to see a national database that matched UID's with Missing People - and that was searchable by "tattoo's", "scars", "broken bones", "clothing", etc. Big Sigh.... someday when I retire....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reannan View Post
    Snipped by me... Wow!!! It will never cease to amaze me how many people are missing and how many cases are just not "out there" yet! The internet is a constantly evolving resource, and it is the reason that people like you and Snuf are SO important to the effort to match UID's with Missing People!!! I would LOVE to see a national database that matched UID's with Missing People - and that was searchable by "tattoo's", "scars", "broken bones", "clothing", etc. Big Sigh.... someday when I retire....
    I think as NamUs is refined it will get better at the matching part. Unfortunately, cases like Mr. Lyons (which is going on 10 years old) are going to pop up. A lot of dentists won't have records from 10 years ago when a patient hasn't come in on at least a spotty basis, and family members die or move away- so no DNA.

    The days of a facial ID are long gone- ME's really will only positively identify anymore based on dentals or DNA, so sadly there are going to be more than a few of these older "stand still" cases coming up.

    I'm hopeful however that there will be fewer and fewer, because they all deserve their names.
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    this one is a total no-brainer Snuf. sad they can't just resolve it. makes you wonder what they would have done had there been no such thing as DNA.

    I mean what more could they want? you got everything here. they found his body in NYC the same day he was reported missing and all the vitals match.

    one thing that gets me - someone reported him missing. you would think next of kin would recognize his face and say that's Ernest.

    great job!

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    It's possible he was reported missing by someone not blood related and no relatives can be located as Carl suggested. I'm not sure a visual identification would be legally sufficient.
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    Have there been any updates on this case that you are aware of?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanting2Help View Post
    Have there been any updates on this case that you are aware of?
    None that I'm aware of. The NamUs UP casefile is still open.

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