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Thread: TX - Hailey Dunn, 13, Colorado City, 27 Dec 2010 - #5

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    TX - Hailey Dunn, 13, Colorado City, 27 Dec 2010 - #5

    Carried over from thread 4:

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    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123835"]Thread 1[/ame]

    Thread 2

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124421"]Thread 3[/ame]

    Thread 4


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    Originally Posted by sarx
    Yes, reading your dog is always a part of it. But, if a dog is used to training on certain age trails then that is going to have a big impact. For instance, the trails that you work to certify at entry level are only 2-4 hours old and a 1/2 to 1 mile long. Even the highest certification only requires a trail 24-30 hours old. The problem with this is that most of the time dogs are not called out for a MP in the first 2-4 hours. Heck, most of the time it's not even the first 24 hours. So.... you can see how handlers spend a ton of time training to pass a test to get certified and have been training on trails that are not real life times. Because scent and its behavior changes so much as the hours and days pass by these dogs haven't got a clue what to do with the scent they're finding cuz it's nothing like what they are used to.

    I think I understand....

    We have a black German Shepherd. Big, tall, long guy @ 130 lbs. Nose always to the ground no matter where he is. When we have had a guest/visitor in the home - when he comes in he immediately will sniff the path they took around the house. LOL - very interesting to watch him. __________________
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    sarx- a dog's nose down on a trail that doesn't stray/venture outward much on a trail would indicate a newer trail to a handler?
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    Quote Originally Posted by crocus View Post
    sarx- a dog's nose down on a trail that doesn't stray/venture outward much on a trail would indicate a newer trail to a handler?
    Oh how I wish it were that simple, my life would be so much easier, lol. No, sadly, some dogs always have their noses stuck to the ground, some go down and up, some stay up most of the time, some are down when it's fresh and up when it's old, and some are the exact opposite. No two are alike. A good handler can "work" any dog, but they're not going to be able to read someone else's dog. So, if the dog takes them straight to the person, it's all good. If he doesn't and the handler has to decipher what the dog did, there's where knowing the dog becomes key. By the same token, if a person hasn't trained on say an old trail (or a super fresh trail, or a car trail, or a trail in the rain, the list goes on and on), then they aren't going to know what to look for because they've never seen it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sarx View Post
    Oh how I wish it were that simple, my life would be so much easier, lol. No, sadly, some dogs always have their noses stuck to the ground, some go down and up, some stay up most of the time, some are down when it's fresh and up when it's old, and some are the exact opposite. No two are alike. A good handler can "work" any dog, but they're not going to be able to read someone else's dog. So, if the dog takes them straight to the person, it's all good. If he doesn't and the handler has to decipher what the dog did, there's where knowing the dog becomes key. By the same token, if a person hasn't trained on say an old trail (or a super fresh trail, or a car trail, or a trail in the rain, the list goes on and on), then they aren't going to know what to look for because they've never seen it.
    I just wanted to say thank you for explaining all of this. I find it totally fascinating...
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    Quote Originally Posted by belimom View Post
    I just wanted to say thank you for explaining all of this. I find it totally fascinating...
    Ditto.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarx View Post
    Oh how I wish it were that simple, my life would be so much easier, lol. No, sadly, some dogs always have their noses stuck to the ground, some go down and up, some stay up most of the time, some are down when it's fresh and up when it's old, and some are the exact opposite. No two are alike. A good handler can "work" any dog, but they're not going to be able to read someone else's dog. So, if the dog takes them straight to the person, it's all good. If he doesn't and the handler has to decipher what the dog did, there's where knowing the dog becomes key. By the same token, if a person hasn't trained on say an old trail (or a super fresh trail, or a car trail, or a trail in the rain, the list goes on and on), then they aren't going to know what to look for because they've never seen it.
    So - a handler who has worked with one specific dog over a period of time gets to "know" that dog and can get a good read on the dog's reactions on a trail?
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    Quote Originally Posted by crocus View Post
    So - a handler who has worked with one specific dog over a period of time gets to "know" that dog and can get a good read on the dog's reactions on a trail?
    Sure, provided that they have trained and experienced the situation before. When handlers work/train together often you get to the point where you can read other dogs in the group as well. Sometimes if you're resting say your dog you will run back up for another handler in your group, kinda like a second set of eyes on the dog, but that only works if you work/train together often.

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    sarx - if you are still here. I have another question. I was told (by someone who is SAR) that German Shepherds notoriously cannot smell human remains under water, as in a lake or river. From what I understand - they can - that the gasses produced will rise to the surface of the water and disperse above it - and a dog - German Shepherd or not - can smell it and will react.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarx View Post
    Oh how I wish it were that simple, my life would be so much easier, lol. No, sadly, some dogs always have their noses stuck to the ground, some go down and up, some stay up most of the time, some are down when it's fresh and up when it's old, and some are the exact opposite. No two are alike. A good handler can "work" any dog, but they're not going to be able to read someone else's dog. So, if the dog takes them straight to the person, it's all good. If he doesn't and the handler has to decipher what the dog did, there's where knowing the dog becomes key. By the same token, if a person hasn't trained on say an old trail (or a super fresh trail, or a car trail, or a trail in the rain, the list goes on and on), then they aren't going to know what to look for because they've never seen it.
    Thank you, you have provided a wealth of knowledge this evening.

    Recently, there was a case where they were bringing dogs in to search under water... does the body fluid disperse in the water like in the air?

    And thank you again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by StrayKat View Post
    Thank you, you have provided a wealth of knowledge this evening.

    Recently, there was a case where they were bringing dogs in to search under water... does the body fluid disperse in the water like in the air?

    And thank you again!
    Water dogs work off of the gases that are released when scent molecules diffuse into the water and then are evaporated when they reach the surface (turning into the gas the dog smells). This reaction can go on for months depending on conditions, possibly even longer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crocus View Post
    Originally Posted by sarx

    I think I understand....

    We have a black German Shepherd. Big, tall, long guy @ 130 lbs. Nose always to the ground no matter where he is. When we have had a guest/visitor in the home - when he comes in he immediately will sniff the path they took around the house. LOL - very interesting to watch him. __________________
    My sister had to put their precious black German Sheperd, down today. She was just over a year old, had been a little under the weather, but today, the vet found massive cancer in her bones, & there was nothing he could do. He even cried. They also have a traditional G shepherd, & watching those 2 dogs, is amazing. so smart & so protective. We babysat the black one, when she was little, & anytime this big, normally 'serious' dog would see my husband, she'd jump in his lap & lick his face. She remembered him playing with her.


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    Quote Originally Posted by dodie20 View Post
    My sister had to put their precious black German Sheperd, down today. She was just over a year old, had been a little under the weather, but today, the vet found massive cancer in her bones, & there was nothing he could do. He even cried. They also have a traditional G shepherd, & watching those 2 dogs, is amazing. so smart & so protective. We babysat the black one, when he was little, & anytime this big, normally 'serious' dog would see my husband, she'd jump in his lap & lick his face. She remembered him playing with her.
    omg- how sad! Poor baby.

    They are amazing dogs - smart as all get out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dodie20 View Post
    My sister had to put their precious black German Sheperd, down today. She was just over a year old, had been a little under the weather, but today, the vet found massive cancer in her bones, & there was nothing he could do. He even cried. They also have a traditional G shepherd, & watching those 2 dogs, is amazing. so smart & so protective. We babysat the black one, when she was little, & anytime this big, normally 'serious' dog would see my husband, she'd jump in his lap & lick his face. She remembered him playing with her.
    I am so sorry for your sister's loss. Losing a loved one is hard enough, losing them that young is really rough. Been there, hope I never am there again. My heart goes out to them.

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    Wonder if any surveillance camera videos have been reviewed. Every new hotel has one nowadays. Have not heard anything about this yet!
    We speak for those who can no longer speak for themselves

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    Quote Originally Posted by SusanB View Post
    Wonder if any surveillance camera videos have been reviewed. Every new hotel has one nowadays. Have not heard anything about this yet!
    It was reported that the video at the Western Suites Motel was checked (because dogs showed "interest" here, but nothing was found on the tapes). Anyone have quick access to that link?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarx View Post
    It was reported that the video at the Western Suites Motel was checked (because dogs showed "interest" here, but nothing was found on the tapes). Anyone have quick access to that link?
    I found a link - an article about Hailey's mom being on NG's show, but after reading it, it doesn't even match the transcript

    Billie Dunn told Grace that bloodhounds were used over the weekend and that the dogs may have tracked Hailey’s scent to a local motel.

    Authorities then searched the rooms at the motel and the motel security camera footage, but no other evidence was obtained.


    http://www.ktxs.com/news/26377186/detail.html

    transcript:

    I want to go back to Billie Dunn, this is Hailey`s mother.

    How far did they tell you the dogs tracked your little girl to that Western Motel? Did they track her into the lobby? Did they track to a certain room, to the parking lot? How far did the trail go?

    B. DUNN: They didn`t tell me that. They just let me know that to the friends, to the motel, and they`re reviewing the video at the motel, and calling everybody who had been checked in to the motel that day.


    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../04/ng.01.html
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    Good night (morning) all...Praying for Hailey, her family, community and all those who love her. Extra prayers for all of the children who have to return to school tomorrow...especially her brother.

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    It's always good to have a fresh new thread to start working thru the confusing MSM reporting.

    Tonite it's "did SA take a LDT or not?"
    What we are doing is just a drop in the ocean.
    But if that drop was not in the ocean,
    I think the ocean would be less because of that missing drop.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sreshowtime View Post
    Well if BF picked BO up from work Monday evening, how did she get there that morning?
    Maybe rode with someone else in the area? Or he did take her in before going to work himself... but then he left work right after arriving.


    Quote Originally Posted by tfrohning View Post
    Welcome That neighbor bothers me .. was he watcher? to know what Hailey did everyday?

    I think the cell phone was to stay at home. but who cell phone did Hailey had so brother could Text her?
    It was the friend's phone that the brother texted. He was told to text the FRIEND to have Hailey come home.


    Quote Originally Posted by tfrohning View Post
    I confused why uncle needed to share that
    If a reporter is talking to you about polygraphs in relation to a missing child and you are a close relative of a missing child... you don't think they are going to ask if you've taken one?

    If
    they asked, once they asked if he had taken one, what was he supposed to say?

    If he had refused to comment we would all be suspicious of him now.

    If he had said yes he took one but refused to give the results, we'd all be suspicious now.

    His best option was simply to say he took it and passed it.

    I am guessing that if he wasn't directly asked, it was said in the context of the conversation about Shawn. Giving examples of the ways everyone else is cooperating...while he is refusing polygraphs. We had known that Billie and Clint volunteered for them already but did not know about other family members.

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    Someone asked a few pages back about the cost of SAR dogs vs. Police Dogs and if SAR dogs cost more. The answer is a big NO! SAR dogs are handled and trained by volunteers. The costs are absorbed by the owner/handler, there is no cost to the family, the county, anyone involved. Police K9's if called in and not on duty does obviously cost the city/county/state as they are an employee and acting in the capacity of their job.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sarx View Post
    Someone asked a few pages back about the cost of SAR dogs vs. Police Dogs and if SAR dogs cost more. The answer is a big NO! SAR dogs are handled and trained by volunteers. The costs are absorbed by the owner/handler, there is no cost to the family, the county, anyone involved. Police K9's if called in and not on duty does obviously cost the city/county/state as they are an employee and acting in the capacity of their job.
    I attended a demo by our local PD K9 unit. I believe they said each dog cost about $6000...
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    Quote Originally Posted by belimom View Post
    I attended a demo by our local PD K9 unit. I believe they said each dog cost about $6000...
    That's actually a quite reasonable price for a trained Police K9. Many go for 10 to 12 thousand. That number though is the price of purchasing the dog by the department only. That doesn't include anything after that or the officer's pay.

    Search dogs work completely differently. You don't generally purchase a trained dog, you don't get paid for working them, etc.

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    Billie Dunn says she's avoiding the website because of the variety of comments on the page, some of which are critical of her and boyfriend, Shawn Adkins.

    When asked whether accusations of foul play surrounding her boyfriend are upsetting she said "no".

    Billie explained that she expects people to suspect family members first because of the precedent set by many nationally reported missing child cases of the past.

    http://www.cbs7.com/news/details.asp?ID=23234


    I don't know when Billie said this. It's in this article but it could be from days ago.

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    I wanted to bring this over from the previous thread (before calling it quits for the night) -- what do you all think of this statement in light of the reports that he refused three polygraphs?

    I've already responded to someone else's post about this, but I think this is huge --- IF it's true:

    From http://m.reporternews.com/news/2011/...orado-city-te/


    Police were following leads Wednesday regarding information from evidence collected from the teen’s home and from the polygraph administered to Adkins.
    BBM

    That is saying that he DID take a poly...
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