2011.01.11 Info RE: Caylee's Second Autopsy

New Posts

A

AlwaysShocked

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2004
Messages
4,687
Reaction score
805
"The additional information offered up today includes a statement that defense expert Dr. Werner Spitz would testify that an examination of the remains by Orange-Osceola Chief Medical Examiner Jan Garavaglia "was less than the appropriate standard for such a medical examiner's protocol."

Spitz would testify that the discovered skull should have been opened by Garavaglia, something Spitz did in his "second autopsy," according to the motion. Spitz, according to the document, discovered a dirt or mud deposit inside the cranium, on the left side – something Garavaglia did not discover.

Spitz, the motion states, "would testify that that is material because it indicates that the remains had been laid on the left side … and, therefore, the body had not been left in an upright or straightforward position as has been claimed by investigators, as well as the experts for the prosecution."

Here's the full article: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-jose-baez-sanction-appeal-20110111,0,4602564.story
 
Really?!? REALLY?!?!? First of all, to say Dr. G did an unprofessional job is laughable and desperate, at best.

Second, with the probable movement of her body by the flooding and the animals (oh, how torturous it is to type those words), who's to say where mud *should* be?

And then this --

In a later section, the pleading goes on to say that the court's order "imposing sanctions in this case reveals misunderstandings or misapprehensions by the court in certain respects."
Click to expand...

Come on, you've got to be kidding me! So, JB, you not getting the appropriate materials turned over to the court/state by the deadline was a misunderstanding on their part????? He's going to blame his refusal to comply on the court? I mean, I can't OMG any louder!!! They have GOT to stop this idiot!
 
I don't recall any mention of an upright body in any filing. The stain in the trunk reflects a body laying in fetal position, right temple flush with the carpet IIRC. I also recall the autopsy explaining in detail how the dispersion of bones over a large area was due to foraging animals. In short the body had been moved.
It also proves the skull was there while the area was flooded because the only way dirt and debris could have entered the sinuses to collect in the skull would have been via water flow. The mud didn't use it's legs to walk there. Oopsy.
There, now he has a written report like a real Doctor doing a real autopsy would already have. :)

Re the ME not splitting the cranium. I'm not sure it's normal protocol to open up the cranium of a skeleton on autoposy. Had Dr G, the case against KC would be stronger but I disagree she missed a step. Had Caylee been found with any soft tissues remaining, the ME would have to take samples of brain tissue. Caylee had none left so there would be nothing to examine for cause of death. Her skull was intact, well it was until the defense got hold of her.
 
Saw this new topic on the way outta here & remembered that Dr. G did note dirt being inside the skull. (See page 8 of her autopsy report.) WTH does Dr. Spitz mean??? Cranium is part of the skull, right?

Sorry I can't c&p it from the pfd - need to learn that one day!
 
AlwaysShocked said:
"The additional information offered up today includes a statement that defense expert Dr. Werner Spitz would testify that an examination of the remains by Orange-Osceola Chief Medical Examiner Jan Garavaglia "was less than the appropriate standard for such a medical examiner's protocol."

Spitz would testify that the discovered skull should have been opened by Garavaglia, something Spitz did in his "second autopsy," according to the motion. Spitz, according to the document, discovered a dirt or mud deposit inside the cranium, on the left side – something Garavaglia did not discover.

Spitz, the motion states, "would testify that that is material because it indicates that the remains had been laid on the left side … and, therefore, the body had not been left in an upright or straightforward position as has been claimed by investigators, as well as the experts for the prosecution."

Here's the full article: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-jose-baez-sanction-appeal-20110111,0,4602564.story
Click to expand...

I wonder which autopsy report Dr Spitz read? Not the one by DR G that we have all read which clearly describes mud and sand inside the skull.
 
Itsy said:
Saw this new topic on the way outta here & remembered that Dr. G did note dirt being inside the skull. (See page 8 of her autopsy report.) WTH does Dr. Spitz mean??? Cranium is part of the skull, right?

Sorry I can't c&p it from the pfd - need to learn that one day!
Click to expand...

Yes, the Cranium is the roof of the skull.
 
AlwaysShocked said:
"The additional information offered up today includes a statement that defense expert Dr. Werner Spitz would testify that an examination of the remains by Orange-Osceola Chief Medical Examiner Jan Garavaglia "was less than the appropriate standard for such a medical examiner's protocol."

Spitz would testify that the discovered skull should have been opened by Garavaglia, something Spitz did in his "second autopsy," according to the motion. Spitz, according to the document, discovered a dirt or mud deposit inside the cranium, on the left side – something Garavaglia did not discover.

Spitz, the motion states, "would testify that that is material because it indicates that the remains had been laid on the left side … and, therefore, the body had not been left in an upright or straightforward position as has been claimed by investigators, as well as the experts for the prosecution."

Here's the full article: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-jose-baez-sanction-appeal-20110111,0,4602564.story
Click to expand...

I don't think it's going to possible to know with certainty that the remains were laid on the left side or upright. Tropical storm Fay hit the area on August 21, 2008 and before it was over dumped a lot of rain. I think it's likely the remains were carried with the current and motion of the water, and came to rest where they were found after the water subsided.
 
ZsaZsa said:
I wonder which autopsy report Dr Spitz read? Not the one by DR G that we have all read which clearly describes mud and sand inside the skull.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my guess is JB wrote that up on behalf of Dr. Spitz . . . . He's hoping Dr. Spitz will just "go with it". We all just have to hope the good Dr keeps his Oath of Ethics in mind.
 
YellowSubmarine said:
Really?!? REALLY?!?!? First of all, to say Dr. G did an unprofessional job is laughable and desperate, at best.

Second, with the probable movement of her body by the flooding and the animals (oh, how torturous it is to type those words), who's to say where mud *should* be?

And then this --



Come on, you've got to be kidding me! So, JB, you not getting the appropriate materials turned over to the court/state by the deadline was a misunderstanding on their part????? He's going to blame his refusal to comply on the court? I mean, I can't OMG any louder!!! They have GOT to stop this idiot!
Click to expand...


I have to tell you, your picture is perfect at the bottom. JB is the polar bear and HHJP is the penguin at the next meeting. lol
 
kaRN said:
I don't recall any mention of an upright body in any filing. The stain in the trunk reflects a body laying in fetal position, right temple flush with the carpet IIRC. I also recall the autopsy explaining in detail how the dispersion of bones over a large area was due to foraging animals. In short the body had been moved.
It also proves the skull was there while the area was flooded because the only way dirt and debris could have entered the sinuses to collect in the skull would have been via water flow. The mud didn't use it's legs to walk there. Oopsy.
There, now he has a written report like a real Doctor doing a real autopsy would already have. :)

Re the ME not splitting the cranium. I'm not sure it's normal protocol to open up the cranium of a skeleton on autoposy. Had Dr G, the case against KC would be stronger but I disagree she missed a step. Had Caylee been found with any soft tissues remaining, the ME would have to take samples of brain tissue. Caylee had none left so there would be nothing to examine for cause of death. Her skull was intact, well it was until the defense got hold of her.
Click to expand...

Dr. Spitz's use of the word "mud" as opposed to "dirt" is appropriate, considering that area was under water for about 3 months. I can't see how his comments are going to help the defense in any way. If anything, they help the prosecution.
 
Itsy said:
Saw this new topic on the way outta here & remembered that Dr. G did note dirt being inside the skull. (See page 8 of her autopsy report.) WTH does Dr. Spitz mean??? Cranium is part of the skull, right?

Sorry I can't c&p it from the pfd - need to learn that one day!
Click to expand...

Thanks Itsy!! I was going on recollection not documentation which is never a good thing lol!! They would have x-rayed the skull and could have removed a sample of the debris by flushing it out with water, the same way it got in. The skull is composed of the cranium (head)nand the mandible (jaw). He found debris inside the head where the baby's brain should have been. The fact the debris had pooled in one area rather than filled the entire cranium is what I find to be very damaging to the defense.
 
Leila said:
Dr. Spitz's use of the word "mud" as opposed to "dirt" is appropriate, considering that area was under water for about 3 months. I can't see how his comments are going to help the defense in any way. If anything, they help the prosecution.
Click to expand...

ITA!! I think the defense thought his comment supported some example of shoddy police work without thinking the entire scenario through. Dr Spitz didn't need to take the measures he did to obtain the sample he got. For most people, an autopsy of their loved one is a traumatic event. Caylee had been desecrated enough. I think the jury will appreciate Dr G's methods over those deployed by agents of her Mother, especially after they see pictures of her remains littered among the trash.
 
YellowSubmarine said:
Yeah, my guess is JB wrote that up on behalf of Dr. Spitz . . . . He's hoping Dr. Spitz will just "go with it". We all just have to hope the good Dr keeps his Oath of Ethics in mind.
Click to expand...

Wasn't there a big bruhaha about his testimony in the Spector case (I think that was the one)? He was almost incoherent and IIRC the jury didn't take him seriously. I could be wrong (again, lol) I also remember him being on the NG show a good bit in the beginning of this whole case, altho I don't recall which way he was leaning back then.
 
Itsy said:
Yes, I knew that, lol (forgot to put in the eyeroll emoticon and wasn't sarcastic enough :D )
Click to expand...

Sorry itsy lol! I should have picked up on that. :crazy:
 
Leila said:
Dr. Spitz's use of the word "mud" as opposed to "dirt" is appropriate, considering that area was under water for about 3 months. I can't see how his comments are going to help the defense in any way. If anything, they help the prosecution.
Click to expand...

"Saline washing of the cranial cavity was also collected."

Dr. G rinsed out the cranium to get the dirt and the tooth that was discovered within.

Dirt + saline water = mud.

Duh.

Autopsy, Page 5
 
Leila said:
I don't think it's going to possible to know with certainty that the remains were laid on the left side or upright. Tropical storm Fay hit the area on August 21, 2008 and before it was over dumped a lot of rain. I think it's likely the remains were carried with the current and motion of the water, and came to rest where they were found after the water subsided.
Click to expand...

Yes, and sadly her little tiny bones were still being found by the CSI and FBI teams, on their knees, in the rain and mud for days, of course it moved!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt_wegzk0z4[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyMjA2XVRH4[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptf5sX-Sfpc[/ame]
 
Numbers said:
"Saline washing of the cranial cavity was also collected."

Dr. G rinsed out the cranium to get the dirt and the tooth that was discovered within.

Dirt + saline water = mud.

Duh.

Autopsy, Page 5
Click to expand...

Thanks Numbers for posting the link to the autopsy. I read the autopsy report a looooong time ago but reading it now makes me sick to my stomach. I cannot imagine that sweet child being "foraged" by animals. :(:(:(
 
Leila said:
I don't think it's going to possible to know with certainty that the remains were laid on the left side or upright. Tropical storm Fay hit the area on August 21, 2008 and before it was over dumped a lot of rain. I think it's likely the remains were carried with the current and motion of the water, and came to rest where they were found after the water subsided.
Click to expand...

Well there is a way to find out, but as GA's friend told Tim Miller - 'The answer is in that room but the b**ch won't talk".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Staff online

Members online

... and 241 more.
Total: 4,012 (members: 242, guests: 3,770)

Online statistics

Members online
242
Guests online
3,770
Total visitors
4,012
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,234
Messages
17,965,661
Members
228,729
Latest member
PoignantEcho
Back
Top