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Thread: UK - Joanna Yeates, Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #5

  1. #701
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeymot View Post
    Hesitant to have a go at the police too much...as there is so much we, obviously, are not (neither should be) privvy to. However, the Clifton Bridge Saga will surely go down in the history books of crime as a total waste of resources...when other, obvious to those with a microscopic brain, avenues were not pursued. Who....even in their greatest hour of panic...would go over a toll bridge whose cameras are so very obvious (to stop jumpers from the bridge). I would have given one community officer the task of sifting through the useless video footage from there. The other (God knows how many)officers could have been collecting ALL CCTV footage from ALL the shops on her route. It is up to the police to see whether or not there is something of interest on the CCTV..NOT the shopkeeper. After all, do we rely on shopkeepers to keep us safe? Do we expect them to apprehend the perp when one of our loved ones is murdered? NO...we expect the police...we pay the police and therefore have the right to demand that the police do what we pay them for.

    Let's hope they surprise us all....IN THE VERY NEAR FUTURE...with the evidence against and swift arrest of the guilty party. Our trust is in them...they must not let us down.
    Exactly Mikey.
    Couldn't agree more. I've got to say I was pretty flabergasted they were (or seemed to be) counting everything on that Suspension bridge getting there man. I marked all those maps off last week to satisfy my mind the feasbability of it all. Then I thought, I really should pass this on to the Police. The only thing that stopped me was, I thought surely they hadn't discounted the other route? I didn't think they'd be too impressed with help like this, not with all the predictions, premonitions, paintings and god knows whatever phoney stuff they get to waste their time with. It would proabably sit in a pile of unanswered e-mails anyway.

    So not to waste my efforts, I joined here and posted them instead lol
    Lo & behold the papers ran the story a few days later. I do think they thought they would nail someone pretty quick across the suspension bridge, and also they counted on it being the night of the 17th.
    Last edited by Phillb; 01-15-2011 at 06:18 PM.

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  3. #702
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    Quote Originally Posted by equationgirl View Post
    Using this application number I found the basic information about the application on the Bristol Council Planning Portal, BUT the UK Planning portal does not have it. Could be because it's an application from 1988 - the UKPP says that applications are only available on the website from when the council started using the service.

    Still no docs though - not really surprised, it's a massive undertaking to scan and upload old documents onto a site for electronic access.
    ALL documents should be available....for any planning applications which are intended to be viewed online. It was no surprise to me that, suddenly, no documents were available for viewing on either neighbouring property. The L/E have obviously denied access but....I cannot quite understand why. What difference would it make to them if, any member of the public, were able to view and download these items (as legally they should be able to) Could it be that the L/E is concerned that someone (maybe with a brain...on one of the many websites running this thread) might find the 'hidey hole' or whatever else they are, belatedly, looking for...before them? Sensible thing would have been to have left these documents where they belong, in the public domain, and simply follow the threads...who knows...it may have actually saved them some valuable manhours!
    "There are some that should be behind bars....and some that shouldn't"

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  5. #703
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    Sensible thing would have been to have left these documents where they belong, in the public domain, and simply follow the threads...who knows...it may have actually saved them some valuable manhours!

    Point !

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    Just like to thank you Otto, for all the hard work and dedication you have donated to our search for the truth. Sure I speak on behalf of most, if not all, of our slething 'family'
    "There are some that should be behind bars....and some that shouldn't"

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  8. #705
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserdisc10 View Post
    Point !
    The similarity to the 1974 murder is very interesting ... right down to the missing shoes. That was 36 years ago, so if it's the same person ... he would be about 56 - 60 years old at this time, and it's unlikely that he hasn't done anything like this in the interim. Maybe the guy was married and raising a family in the meantime, and something happened in the last few months -like the death of a spouse, or something like that. Just speculating, but that's quite a gap between two similar murders.

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  10. #706
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    Is it possible that at the point which we were hearing about the Clifton Bridge being the probable route, the LE had triangulated the perp's mobile phone to the other route, thereby making the perp feel like he was off the radar whilst they built a case...?

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  12. #707
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeymot View Post
    Just like to thank you Otto, for all the hard work and dedication you have donated to our search for the truth. Sure I speak on behalf of most, if not all, of our slething 'family'
    No problem ... visualizing helps us to understand the bigger picture.

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  14. #708
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    Quote Originally Posted by jigzy View Post
    Is it possible that at the point which we were hearing about the Clifton Bridge being the probable route, the LE had triangulated the perp's mobile phone to the other route, thereby making the perp feel like he was off the radar whilst they built a case...?
    I doubt very much they are being ''stealthily'' clever and playing dumb to outsmart the killer.
    They have after all made a needless statement publically that (no names mentioned) is a witness, and not a suspect.

    I can just see the press having a field day with that one if things go pearshaped for them.
    If they play dumb too much, and don't catch the Killer. Heads will roll you can be assured of that.
    Public pressure is mounting, criticism of the Police doesn't go down too well with the top brass.

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  16. #709
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserdisc10 View Post
    I didn't explain myself at all well and you're entirely correct, thank you

    What I meant was I lean towards accidental killing, or unintentional killing, i.e., not premeditated murder (although that doesn't mean I'm not open to a vast range of other possibilities)

    But everything you've written is correct and in no way did I mean to imply any excuse for the killer. They became guilty, in my book, the moment they laid hands on her
    Never thought you had made any excuses for the killer....in fact, it was your post that got me thinking. I, too, believe, like the L/E, that this was not a sexual murder...but, can't remember the exact words, may have had sexual connotations. Never really wondered, if this was the case...and her death was totally unintentional...why not call for help.....for her...she may have been able to have been revived. This probably makes me more angry....because it means this killer...apart from everything else, is a heartless coward. The little compassion I had in reserve, has gone. What if...and it is a big IF...she was still alive when she was dumped...because that is what she was...dumped.
    She could well have died from hypothermia. Hope the perp gets everything...and a whole lot more...of what he deserves.
    "There are some that should be behind bars....and some that shouldn't"

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  18. #710
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    Difficult to comprehend the reasoning behind a lot of it (i.e., LE's priorities)

    As far as we're aware, the police got around to the flat very swiftly and more swiftly than they have in other cases, based again on what we know

    Then, very swiftly indeed, CCTV footage of JY's walk home was before the public. So who organised that - LE or the media ?

    In order to obtain that CCTV footage (if the police were responsible for it's release) required that the police knew the places she'd stopped, i.e., Waitrose, Tescos, Bargain Booze

    but -- how did they know she'd stopped at those locations at that point in time, i.e., very, very early in the piece ?

    In order to learn she'd stopped at the above locations, wouldn't they have needed first to scrutinize all CCTV footage from all places along the route she'd taken ? Yet retailers along that route said the police had contacted them to request they review their own CCTV and if there was anything of interest, to forward it to the police. Quite a while later, from memory, it was reported that police had now begun obtaining retailer's CCTV footage in order LE could scrutinize it

    Much was made of the pizza. Yet LE, according to the media (who claimed they were reporting info provided by the public) did not go about securing garbage bins. The garbage bins were emptied. Police then scoured through literally tons of the stuff. Yet if they'd taken garbage bins from the Carynge road environs at the outset, they would have had a much better chance, possibly, of finding the pizza and of being able to pin down the location at which it was dumped

    At the same time, for reasons yet to be explained, LE did not release a description of the clothing worn by the victim, not even during the peak of the 'search' period, before the body was discovered. Clothing is, as a rule, one of the first items of information provided the public and one of the first descriptions provided by the public

    Hard to make sense of it

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  20. #711
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserdisc10 View Post
    but -- how did they know she'd stopped at those locations at that point in time, i.e., very, very early in the piece ?
    From receipts in her bag wasn't it?

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  22. #712
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeymot View Post
    Never thought you had made any excuses for the killer....in fact, it was your post that got me thinking. I, too, believe, like the L/E, that this was not a sexual murder...but, can't remember the exact words, may have had sexual connotations. Never really wondered, if this was the case...and her death was totally unintentional...why not call for help.....for her...she may have been able to have been revived. This probably makes me more angry....because it means this killer...apart from everything else, is a heartless coward. The little compassion I had in reserve, has gone.

    What if...and it is a big IF...she was still alive when she was dumped...because that is what she was...dumped.
    She could well have died from hypothermia.
    Hope the perp gets everything...and a whole lot more...of what he deserves.

    Agree. Great post. About time we demonstrated some righteous indignation, anger and disgust

    Self preservation. Self interest. Base survival instinct

    Dumped the body. Separated themselves from the crime. Track covering

    Like you, I believe they deserve to be sweating and stewing in their fear that their liberty will soon be taken from them, the way they stole it from JY

    But, and I hate to say this, will the penalty fit the crime, if they're ever apprehended ? ' Involuntary manslaughter' and plea bargain ? Three years ?
    Last edited by laserdisc10; 01-15-2011 at 06:50 PM.

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  24. #713
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    Jo's friend Emma Brook's speaks to the Daily Telegraph .....

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...forgotten.html
    'IMO'



    Rest In Peace Alice Gross

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  26. #714
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillb View Post
    From receipts in her bag wasn't it?
    You're right. May well have been in the case of Tescos and Bargain Booze. She didn't buy anything at Waitrose as far as I know and it wasn't in a straight line between the other two places where she did make purchases -- was it ? So I can't explain the Waitrose stop

    They're very lucky then, if she kept the receipts and they found them. For small purchases like that, I just screw up receipts and toss them in the bin

    On the other hand, they might have tracked her stops via her credit-card ... I hadn't thought of that. If it was the credit card and/or receipts, then at least they were on the ball at that point

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  28. #715
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillb View Post
    From receipts in her bag wasn't it?
    Do you think they found the bottle top to the cider she had alledgedly opened ?? Its important as this may well tell if the bottle was opened with her bottle opener or one from somebody else ??
    'IMO'



    Rest In Peace Alice Gross

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  30. #716
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    The Mirror

    Rachel Nickell forensics team working on Joanna Yeates case
    *
    *
    EXCLUSIVE by Simon Wright and Adrian Butler
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-22852257/

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  32. #717
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    new thread coming shortly!!

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  34. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserdisc10 View Post
    You're right. May well have been in the case of Tescos and Bargain Booze. She didn't buy anything at Waitrose as far as I know and it wasn't in a straight line between the other two places where she did make purchases -- was it ? So I can't explain the Waitrose stop

    They're very lucky then, if she kept the receipts and they found them. For small purchases like that, I just screw up receipts and toss them in the bin

    On the other hand, they might have tracked her stops via her credit-card ... I hadn't thought of that. If it was the credit card and/or receipts, then at least they were on the ball at that point
    Someone suggested earlier that she could have gone inside to stay warm while talking with her friend.

  35. #719
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillb View Post


    The virtually-invisible samples, which might have come from the killer as he dumped Jo’s body, have been found by “swabbing” it with special chemicals.

    swabbing body, as opposed to clothing, is what I've derived from this. Don't know if others agree


    Interesting juxtoposition of sentences - mentioning CJ at the point the journos did. Might mean something - or nothing at all of course

  36. #720
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    The similarity to the 1974 murder is very interesting ... right down to the missing shoes. That was 36 years ago, so if it's the same person ... he would be about 56 - 60 years old at this time, and it's unlikely that he hasn't done anything like this in the interim. Maybe the guy was married and raising a family in the meantime, and something happened in the last few months -like the death of a spouse, or something like that. Just speculating, but that's quite a gap between two similar murders.
    Just a thought, but sometimes when one person has been proven to commit two similar murders separated by a gap of some years, they may have been in prison in the interim. For example, Donald Ferguson Forbes killed a nightwatchman (security guard) in 1958 when he was 23, served a prison sentence of 11 years before being released on licence only to kill someone else when he lost his temper in a bar a few years later when he was 35. Now the crimes were different, but he was known to have a tendency towards violence when drunnk and had been drinking heavily when he committed both crimes.

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    A new thread has been opened. Please continue here:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125405"]Found Deceased UK - Joanna Yeates, Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #6 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

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