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  1. #1
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    Cause of Death and Time of Death, Thread #2 (Warning: Contains Graphic Content!)

    Please continue the speculation/discussion about Zahra's cause of death and time/date of death here.

    Please stay on topic, and within the TOS. No sleuthing of minors or non-suspects, and no name calling.

    First thread:
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119664"]Cause of Death and Time of Death *MERGED* (Warning: Contains Graphic Content!) - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

  2. #2
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    I think EB accidentally killed Zahra in a fit of rage, the cause being obvious while Zahra's body remained intact.
    I honestly don't think that Adam had any real idea of how EB was treating his child because most fathers would have difficulty coming to terms with such a thing. And abused children often don't tell for fear of being disbelieved and the consequences of further abuse.

    Time of death is a difficult one for me. Not actually seeing his daughter for twelve days stretches the imagination a little, but it is possible since we don't know what BS EB fed to him.

    Neglect on the part of Adam Baker? If not, then certainly a great lack of concern.

  3. #3
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    Jan 2011
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    13

    so sorry

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyaDuck? View Post
    Please continue the speculation/discussion about Zahra's cause of death and time/date of death here.

    Please stay on topic, and within the TOS. No sleuthing of minors or non-suspects, and no name calling.

    First thread:
    Cause of Death and Time of Death *MERGED* (Warning: Contains Graphic Content!) - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

    I, in my confusion, not only got off topic (after being warned), but then I posted something completely off topic (thought I was posting elsewhere), by accident. I want to apologize to everyone, and in the future, I will make sure that I have chosen the correct forum for my question. Thanks for all of the patience.

  4. #4
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    Sokay, partly my bad as well. I wanted to discuss TOD and some of that may get graphic and clinical with the science stuff, etc. so I wanted a place to discuss that where there was a clear understanding that it may be - well - graphic.

    I totally get that COD and TOD are going to cross paths again and again. I should have realized that when opening the thread and made it about both topics to begin with.

    MY apologies to the mods for creating the thread, I propbably should have consulted them and gotten some advice first.
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  5. #5
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    Somewhere in this case it was discussed about the gasses that are let off of a body at TOD. I believe it was sarx explaining it about how dogs detect decomp. My ? is it possible to determine if the tissue and blood splatter occured before or after death? If it can be I would say that could be very helpful in determining COD and TOD both. I cant visualize the dismemberment happening in the bedroom because of the mess. I just thought if they could determine if Zahra was alive at the time of the splatter it could prove if she was beaten stabbed or shot etc...Also wouldnt the splatter be different from blood that came from a beating heart as oposed to a non beating heart? TIA JMO
    GREAT MOUNTAINS OF HAPPINESS GROW OUT OF TINY HILLS OF KINDNESS

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by hmmmisee View Post
    I, in my confusion, not only got off topic (after being warned), but then I posted something completely off topic (thought I was posting elsewhere), by accident. I want to apologize to everyone, and in the future, I will make sure that I have chosen the correct forum for my question. Thanks for all of the patience.
    i think we all do it!!! and we dont mean to do it we are so busy typing our thoughts out that we forget to look up to see what the thread is and if you are like me i might have 5 up at the same time for various reasons

    trust me i think duck is pulling hair out over me by now hehehe


  7. #7
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    Whenever an injury occurs, several types of cells rush the area to begin the healing process. Platelets in the blood arrive and begin to clump together and plug any breech in the blood vessels. This action is the first step in what we call the Clotting Cascade, and without it blood clotting would not occur and even minor injuries could cause lethal bleeding. White blood cells, lymphocytes, and mast cells also appear.

    Mast cells contain little packets of chemicals–histamine and certain enzymes–in their cytoplasm–the liquid part of the cell. When an injury occurs the mast cells move in and release these chemicals. When properly stained and viewed under a microscope the cytoplasm of a mast cell is filled with tiny blue granules. These are the chemical packets. As the chemicals are released, the granules disappear, a process known as degranulation. This only happens while we are alive. After death the mast cells do not degranulate. ETA IF I am reading this correctly. I think more research is in order.

    http://writersforensicsblog.wordpres...lood-analysis/

    If the blood spatter samples were not too degraded it looks as if they may be able to tell if the blood came pre or post mortem
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  8. #8
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    Exclamation Warning: Link is pdf with photo of blood spatter

    really good explanation of blood spatter analysis here

    http://www.akininc.com/PDFs/BSA%20Wikipedia.pdf
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  9. #9
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    that is truly great info that you have found tl!!!

    remember to we are also dealing with a cancer patient that spread even after the amputation thus the immune system i would think would not respond quite the same

    what those differences would be i have no idea and i guess it would depend on the individual thus she might of had a "unique" reaction to injuries which might be easier to determine from a forensics standpoint

    i just recall the explanations given to me with respect to how easy my daughter bruised, healed etc and something is niggling at the back of my brain but i simply at the moment cant think what that is

    is there a doctor in the house ?

  10. #10
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    Are you referring to low platelets?

    Blood not clotting well?

    It isn't uncommon for a child with cancer (frequently Leukemia) to have excessive bruising and bleeding because of the platelets. Frequent nose bleeds for example.

    I'm not sure it would be enough to impact forensic testing however.

    Quote Originally Posted by Allusonz View Post
    that is truly great info that you have found tl!!!

    remember to we are also dealing with a cancer patient that spread even after the amputation thus the immune system i would think would not respond quite the same

    what those differences would be i have no idea and i guess it would depend on the individual thus she might of had a "unique" reaction to injuries which might be easier to determine from a forensics standpoint

    i just recall the explanations given to me with respect to how easy my daughter bruised, healed etc and something is niggling at the back of my brain but i simply at the moment cant think what that is

    is there a doctor in the house ?


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsFacetious View Post
    Are you referring to low platelets?

    Blood not clotting well?

    It isn't uncommon for a child with cancer (frequently Leukemia) to have excessive bruising and bleeding because of the platelets. Frequent nose bleeds for example.

    I'm not sure it would be enough to impact forensic testing however.
    not so much the blood more the tissue/bones etc but for the life of me cant remember

    i really have to think how the specialists phrased to me and the context that it was meant and it is eluding me

    i thought if i put it out there maybe it might jog someone else's memory etc as i am trying to recall a few years back now and i know it was in context to how it affected all the organs/bone structures etc
    Last edited by Allusonz; 01-20-2011 at 04:14 AM. Reason: tyop

  12. #12
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    According to Death certificate filed. Cause of death "Pending", time of death "unknown".


    http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2...ers-ar-725128/

  13. #13
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    Death certificate lists Zahra's cause of death as 'pending'

    HICKORY, NC (WBTV) - A death certificate for Zahra Baker has been filed with the Catawba County Register of Deeds office.

    The certificate sets the date of death on October 26, the date remains were found in Caldwell County. The remains of the 10-year-old girl have been found in at least two different places and her stepmother has said that the girl was dismembered after she died, according to search warrants.

    The cause of death on the certificate is listed as "Pending." There is a notation that an autopsy was conducted at the state medical examiner's office and that the remains are still there.

    It is not unusual, say authorities, for cause of death to be listed as "Pending" if the medical examiner is still awaiting more test results or information from investigators. Authorities would not comment whether that was the case.
    More at:
    http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13907414

  14. #14
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    Autopsy results should shed more light. A death certificate is simply an official record documenting that someone is deceased. I never expected to glean much from it. It is not unusual for the result to be listed as pending.

    So why bother to issue one if you haven't determined COD yet? Well, because in order to file a person's estate with probate court you must have a death certificate. I would imagine, in order to set up transportation of a body or remains on an airline - you must have one. In order to make funeral arrangements in another country - you would probably need one.

    So while to some it may seem odd to even issue or release one til COD has been determined, to me it makes perfect sense. It is simply a record that someone is dead, and not meant to explain the why's hows etc.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlcox View Post
    So while to some it may seem odd to even issue or release one til COD has been determined, to me it makes perfect sense. It is simply a record that someone is dead, and not meant to explain the why's hows etc.
    I agree that I wasn't expecting any relevant info on the death certificate; I'm definitely (trepidatiously) waiting on the autopsy results.

    I wonder if this wasn't file because it's a require for it to be filed within 90 days? Just a guess.

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