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Thread: NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #7

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by carterkatt View Post
    Wikipedia is not always reliable info. Info can be put in Wikipedia articles by anyone - the general public.
    I think an Amherst student (maybe a friend of Maura's?) researched and wrote the Wikipedia article on Maura's disappearance. The article does have the sources linked to the facts sited, so it seems pretty reliable to me.

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    Great point Goldie,, and you know police often to what i believe they call wellfare checks when they believe some one is maybe suicidal or upset im not to sure on the police standards on what constitutes then going out on a wellfare check but heck i have heard so many even now adays stories where cops say wait to file a missing persons report as they did in this case aswell .heck if i was a parent in this situation you may be better off to ask for a wellfare check cause u would think if they cant find the person they are doing a wellfare check on well they are gonna start thier investigation right there maybe sooner then they would for a missing older teen or adult..maybe this is a new way to get around these police that say she will turn up and loose the 48 hours and never get that back.. I am not at all suggesting that anyone should be abducted or turn up missing but jesus its almost like this needs to happen to a LE daughter or familly member for them to really understand as sad as that is to say , I do not wish it upon noone but something has to change in my oppinnion.
    Everything I Write Is JMHO ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldiegirl View Post
    What bothers me is when LE seems to have the attitude of, "Well she/he had plans to go away willingly, therefore there's nothing more to investigate." Even if a person was upset about something, did plan to leave, went somewhere willingly, or even planned to kill himself or herself, why does that mean something ELSE (additional) couldn't have happened along the way? Or is it that they figure the person was going to disappear/commit suicide anyway, so it doesn't matter? I'm not suggesting whatsoever that they consciously think this or say it, but I wonder.
    EXACTLY - and compare this with Leah Roberts' case, recently featured on "Disappeared" - also an adult, also disappeared willingly on a Jack Kerouac-like excursion - but even though she disappeared on her own volition and left a note for her family to not worry about her, LE STILL investigated it as a missing persons' case when all activity on her accounts stopped. They did not stop looking when her car showed up crashed over an embankment. They even took the movie ticket paystub and interviewed people at the restaurant next to the movie theatre to find out her last known whereabouts. And they looked under the hood of the car and found unknown male DNA. Think NH LE would have gone to this extent? Cases like Maura's happen ALL THE TIME and LE still investigates them as suspicious, and reaches out to state LE and even the FBI - and in Maura's case, the FBI offered assistance and local LE REFUSED it. I've been researching MP cases for a while now and I've never heard seen such negligence from LE - not even when the MP is a prostitute or transient (and LE therefore being less likely to take it seriously). I think the local cops knew they were inexperienced with this type of case and in over their heads but are too prideful to admit it.
    Some people do crossword puzzles or Soduko in their spare time...I look at skeletal reconstructions and work on UID puzzles. I swear I'm not this morbid in person!

    Help Fred Murray find his daughter and bring her home. He should not be walking those woods alone!
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    They refused help from the FBI?! I didn't know this! Sorry, I still haven't figured out how to quote the messages I am referencing. That's really disgusting. They should be ashamed of themselves. Even if they made the initial mistake to refuse help, you'd think that after a few years of no resolution they'd accept the help. I just don't see how they think it makes them look good to have this case remain unsolved. I'm seeing this happen more and more often, and I just don't understand it. One would think LE would want to solve cases ASAP, even if just to make themselves look better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldiegirl View Post
    They refused help from the FBI?! I didn't know this! Sorry, I still haven't figured out how to quote the messages I am referencing. That's really disgusting. They should be ashamed of themselves. Even if they made the initial mistake to refuse help, you'd think that after a few years of no resolution they'd accept the help. I just don't see how they think it makes them look good to have this case remain unsolved. I'm seeing this happen more and more often, and I just don't understand it. One would think LE would want to solve cases ASAP, even if just to make themselves look better.
    At least, they have a new cold case unit. Nh had a lot of unsolved crimes and the missing people were adding up, so I hope this unit finds some resolution for the families of these victims.

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    Too much bad info floating around out there as stories change over time.

    By Peter DeMarco
    Globe Correspondent / February 20, 2004

    With no new leads, FBI joins search for missing student
    The FBI has joined in the search for missing college student Maura Murray, but without a single lead in the nearly two-week old case, New Hampshire authorities said the additional investigators might not make a difference.

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    The one thing that has always stopped me from thinking Maura just took off from the crash site (either in a daze or for whatever reason) is the rag from her emergency kit stuffed in the tailpipe. If she was injured and wandered off, I can't imagine her thinking to do that. If she wandered off to find/avoid help, why would she do that?

    So if Maura didn't do it, someone else must have .....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copper View Post
    The one thing that has always stopped me from thinking Maura just took off from the crash site (either in a daze or for whatever reason) is the rag from her emergency kit stuffed in the tailpipe. If she was injured and wandered off, I can't imagine her thinking to do that. If she wandered off to find/avoid help, why would she do that?

    So if Maura didn't do it, someone else must have .....

    I'm glad you brought this up, because I've never understood it. I don't know the first thing about cars, so maybe someone can explain this to me. Why would someone do this, anyway? If someone else did do this, what purpose would it serve? I mean obviously someone HAD done it, but whether it was Maura or someone else, why?

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    The rag

    As I was just rereading one of the links to a newspaper article linked above, I noted something: Atwood, the sbd, advised her to turn on her flashers. Don't know if she did or not but maybe her response to that advice was to instead/also, put the rag in the tail pipe. I think I read early on that was a distress signal....sort of like tying something to your radio antenna (used to be, may still be, sort of a distress signal.). Which would indicate, she was going to find help on her own...walk away until there would be no indication of drinking.....etc. This case puzzles me so much because of the short time frame of her disappearing.
    (Fact in our state: the more lawmakers toughen he DWI laws, the more impaired drivers in accidents are fleeing the scene......of course, they are usually eventually located, but in less trouble than a DWI multiple offense could bring.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldiegirl View Post
    I'm glad you brought this up, because I've never understood it. I don't know the first thing about cars, so maybe someone can explain this to me. Why would someone do this, anyway? If someone else did do this, what purpose would it serve? I mean obviously someone HAD done it, but whether it was Maura or someone else, why?
    I think there were 3 theories about this:

    Can't remember where I read it, but thought is was mentioned that this was done to cut down on exhaust smoke (her car was in poor mech. shape) and that it was her father had told about this, I might be wrong about this.....

    A theory was that she or someone wanted to disable the car... completely blocking the tail pipe would do this and since she left her valuable jewerly in the trunk, this would prevent someone from drive away (of course wouldn't stop car from being towed).

    Most plausable theory is to signal the car was broken down - not sure if the rag could be seen by passerbys and if the rag was red...

    Now, this brings up another of the many, many mysteries surrounding this case - If MM had the where-with-all to do this (use rag to signal her car was in trouble) why wouldn't she have first made an attempt to get rid of the alcohol in her car, since that would get her in lots of trouble..
    Speaking of mysteries - billions of people past/present, how on earth did I get be on earth and self-aware?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    Can't remember where I read it, but thought is was mentioned that this was done to cut down on exhaust smoke (her car was in poor mech. shape) and that it was her father had told about this, I might be wrong about this.....
    If that could be verified, it would clear things up tremendously.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    A theory was that she or someone wanted to disable the car... completely blocking the tail pipe would do this and since she left her valuable jewerly in the trunk, this would prevent someone from drive away (of course wouldn't stop car from being towed).
    The car had just been in an accident. It was locked. The idea Maura would need to prevent someone just coming along, getting in and driving away doesn't make sense to me.

    On the other hand, anyone know what the condition of the car was? Could it be driven at all? In those critical ten minutes, could someone have come along and not wanted Maura to get away?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    Most plausable theory is to signal the car was broken down - not sure if the rag could be seen by passerbys and if the rag was red...
    Most plausible, agreed. But it doesn't sit well with me. It seems clear that Maura's car had obviously been in an accident. So I don't understand why Maura would feel the need to indicate her car was broken down.

    BTW, good stuff Steve!
    There are known knowns; there are things we know we know.
    There are known unknowns; there are things we know we don't know.
    There are unknown unknowns; there are things we don't know we don't know.
    And there are unknown knowns; there are things we don't know we know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Copper View Post
    If that could be verified, it would clear things up tremendously.

    The car had just been in an accident. It was locked. The idea Maura would need to prevent someone just coming along, getting in and driving away doesn't make sense to me.

    On the other hand, anyone know what the condition of the car was? Could it be driven at all? In those critical ten minutes, could someone have come along and not wanted Maura to get away?

    Most plausible, agreed. But it doesn't sit well with me. It seems clear that Maura's car had obviously been in an accident. So I don't understand why Maura would feel the need to indicate her car was broken down.
    Here a link to something about Fred commenting on the rag.... his comment is down a ways in this article...
    http://southshorexpress.com/maura-is...-epilogue.html

    Here's a link to where these articles begin:
    http://southshorexpress.com/maura-is-missing.html

    In this one

    http://southshorexpress.com/maura-is...-accident.html

    there is a photo of her car... Notice the damage is above the bumper... the bumper appears okay.... I suspect this type of damage is something we would see when a car goes under something like the back of a truck or something that has a high bumper... cannot see how a tree or guard rail could have done this....
    One of my own wild theories is that she hit the back of Butch's school bus... but I'm sure (I hope that was checked and ruled out long ago)...

    In any event the damage is such that she could not have driven the car far because the headlights, if still working, were so out of alignment they would have been useless and would have attracted attention.. The last thing she wanted if she had been drinking.

    Speaking of theories, there was one about her accident taking place further east than it did, in state park jurisdiction and that her car was purposely moved by the perp(s) west to get it into the jurisdiction of the small Haverhill police force.
    Speaking of mysteries - billions of people past/present, how on earth did I get be on earth and self-aware?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Copper View Post
    If that could be verified, it would clear things up tremendously.

    The car had just been in an accident. It was locked. The idea Maura would need to prevent someone just coming along, getting in and driving away doesn't make sense to me.

    On the other hand, anyone know what the condition of the car was? Could it be driven at all? In those critical ten minutes, could someone have come along and not wanted Maura to get away?

    Most plausible, agreed. But it doesn't sit well with me. It seems clear that Maura's car had obviously been in an accident. So I don't understand why Maura would feel the need to indicate her car was broken down

    BTW, good stuff Steve!
    I believe her car was sticking out into the road on a bad corner and supposedly, the car was nose down into a snow bank. I'm guessing that she used the rag as a warning to drivers of her car sticking out into the road. It was a lame warning, but maybe she was momentarily concerned with the position of her car in the road at that time. Just a thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    Here a link to something about Fred commenting on the rag.... his comment is down a ways in this article...
    http://southshorexpress.com/maura-is...-epilogue.html

    Here's a link to where these articles begin:
    http://southshorexpress.com/maura-is-missing.html

    In this one

    http://southshorexpress.com/maura-is...-accident.html

    there is a photo of her car... Notice the damage is above the bumper... the bumper appears okay.... I suspect this type of damage is something we would
    see when a car goes under something like the back of a truck or something that has a high bumper... cannot see how a tree or guard rail could have done this....
    One of my own wild theories is that she hit the back of Butch's school bus... but I'm sure (I hope that was checked and ruled out long ago)...

    In any event the damage is such that she could not have driven the car far because the headlights, if still working, were so out of alignment they would have been useless and would have attracted attention.. The last thing she wanted if she had been drinking.

    Speaking of theories, there was one about her accident taking place further east than it did, in state park jurisdiction and that her car was purposely moved by the perp(s) west to get it into the jurisdiction of the small Haverhill police force.
    At first glance, it looks like her car nose dived down then hit something. I think the hood damage was from the snowbank. I had a Saturn and the fenders, bumpers and door panels were a hard plastic. The hood was metal. The metal shows damage easily. The whole bumper may have bent down by the impact, so it doesn't look as bad as the crumpled metal hood area. I think it is possible she hit it straight on the corner of the vehicle. There were probably tire marks in the snow at the time too, so LE could figure out where the car hit. I suspect
    there were snowbanks along the road too.

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    After thinking about this case for months and months, I think the only mystery is what happened to her after the accident in NH. Everything that lead up to her disappearance suggests to me that she was upset and mortified about her first accident, which lead her to take that fateful trip up to NH. She was emotional and impulsive and only 21 years old. I believe Maura was a perfectionist and she felt she disappointed her Dad and herself. Maybe, she had an eating disorder or a budding drinking problem as some people suggest, but if any of these issues were true, this only added to her emotional reaction to the first accident in my mind. It is very unfortunate that she didn't just sleep on it. A good night sleep could have made a difference on her state of mind and decisions.

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    Just an afterthought about the cloth in the tailpipe ..... I wonder if the emergency flashers were on when LE found her car. I say that because I can see using a red cloth as a warning instead of turning on the flashers if one thought they would be gone a long time an did not want to wear down the car's battery...

    I still wonder about her having the where-with-all to place the warning cloth, but not trying to get rid of the alcohol in her car....
    Speaking of mysteries - billions of people past/present, how on earth did I get be on earth and self-aware?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    Just an afterthought about the cloth in the tailpipe ..... I wonder if the emergency flashers were on when LE found her car. I say that because I can see using a red cloth as a warning instead of turning on the flashers if one thought they would be gone a long time an did not want to wear down the car's battery...

    I still wonder about her having the where-with-all to place the warning cloth, but not trying to get rid of the alcohol in her car....
    You're right, that part about the alcohol makes no sense. You know, I had a thought. This sounds kind of far-fetched, but nothing else makes sense, either. Maybe a passerby put the cloth in the tailpipe? If someone came along and noticed the car sticking out in the road, he or she wouldn't have been able to turn on the flashers if the car was locked. Maybe that person put a rag in the tail pipe to mark it and hopefully prevent others from running into it? I think it was mentioned whether or not the car was locked, but I don't remember. If it was, then this probably isn't the case, but you never know. Maybe somebody didn't want to reach in to someone else's car and decided to use the rag instead. Just a thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldiegirl View Post
    You're right, that part about the alcohol makes no sense. You know, I had a thought. This sounds kind of far-fetched, but nothing else makes sense, either. Maybe a passerby put the cloth in the tailpipe? If someone came along and noticed the car sticking out in the road, he or she wouldn't have been able to turn on the flashers if the car was locked. Maybe that person put a rag in the tail pipe to mark it and hopefully prevent others from running into it? I think it was mentioned whether or not the car was locked, but I don't remember. If it was, then this probably isn't the case, but you never know. Maybe somebody didn't want to reach in to someone else's car and decided to use the rag instead. Just a thought.
    The cloth in the tailpipe came from a emergency kit given to her by her father that she kept in her car, so either she or someone who access to the inside of her car did that, though it most likely her since she knew of the kit and where it was.
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldiegirl View Post
    You're right, that part about the alcohol makes no sense. You know, I had a thought. This sounds kind of far-fetched, but nothing else makes sense, either. Maybe a passerby put the cloth in the tailpipe? If someone came along and noticed the car sticking out in the road, he or she wouldn't have been able to turn on the flashers if the car was locked. Maybe that person put a rag in the tail pipe to mark it and hopefully prevent others from running into it? I think it was mentioned whether or not the car was locked, but I don't remember. If it was, then this probably isn't the case, but you never know. Maybe somebody didn't want to reach in to someone else's car and decided to use the rag instead. Just a thought.
    The cloth was confirmed to be from Maura's emergency car kit, which was in her trunk. Her father had put the kit together.

    I have read that the car was locked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    Just an afterthought about the cloth in the tailpipe ..... I wonder if the emergency flashers were on when LE found her car. I say that because I can see using a red cloth as a warning instead of turning on the flashers if one thought they would be gone a long time an did not want to wear down the car's battery...

    I still wonder about her having the where-with-all to place the warning cloth, but not trying to get rid of the alcohol in her car....
    The bus driver advised her to turn them on, but I don't know if she complied.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    Just an afterthought about the cloth in the tailpipe ..... I wonder if the emergency flashers were on when LE found her car. I say that because I can see using a red cloth as a warning instead of turning on the flashers if one thought they would be gone a long time an did not want to wear down the car's battery...

    I still wonder about her having the where-with-all to place the warning cloth, but not trying to get rid of the alcohol in her car....
    She did grab the bottles, but left the busted up box of wine and soda bottle with wine in it. My theory is that she wanted to get away from the scene and didn't have time to clean up the mess (wine splashed in the interior). I don't believe she was thinking clearly.

    JMO

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    I think the very fact that the only thing that's really missing is the alcohol shows that the reason she fled was because she just didn't want to get caught driving with all that alcohol, some of it being opened. I don't even know that she was necessarily all that intoxicated. She may have been but either way she'd need to ditch the alcohol. I have always thought that she trusted the wrong person, or the wrong person got a hold of her. I do think she was still alive for the call to her bf's cell. But I think by 2 days later her cell would have been dead so she would have had to use a landline. Maybe a perp stopped at a truck stop and she told him she had to use the bathroom. Maybe she was able to get to a pay phone.

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  38. #98
    This is a perplexing case. I found out about this on her anniversary, someone on my facebook friends list wrote this:

    Can not believe that Maura has been missing for 7 years today!
    And in response to:
    Who's Maura?
    was:

    Its a girl that I grew up with living in Hanson.. we played sports together all growing up. Sad story because she disappeared up in NH and she was one of the nicest human being that you could have ever met!http://www.959watd.com/news.php?Hans...ince-2004-4917

    Afterwards, I watched the disappeared show on Maura and have been perplexed by it ever since. I've scoured the web, read the threads here maybe 2 times all the way through, and I still have no idea what to think. Every time I go back to this case I think something different.

    NHWoodsman had some good posts on this over the summer and he seemed to support the theory that she disappeared into the woods on her own accord and succumbed to the elements. I subscribed to this theory but... we just had a horrible winter here in MA, and on multiple occasions I had to walk through 2 1/2 feet of snow on the ground. Was she wearing sneakers? Because that would make it even less likely, they'd be uncomfortably soaked very quickly. I just can't see anyone doing this in nearly any state of mind... if she did disappear into the woods and "got lost", why didn't she follow her tracks back out? Another mystery.

    Someone mentioned a while back the theory of someone driving around impersonating a police officer and really that theory would explain an awful lot

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    [QUOTE




    NHWoodsman had some good posts on this over the summer and he seemed to support the theory that she disappeared into the woods on her own accord and succumbed to the elements. I subscribed to this theory but... we just had a horrible winter here in MA, and on multiple occasions I had to walk through 2 1/2 feet of snow on the ground. Was she wearing sneakers? Because that would make it even less likely, they'd be uncomfortably soaked very quickly. I just can't see anyone doing this in nearly any state of mind... if she did disappear into the woods and "got lost", why didn't she follow her tracks back out? Another mystery.

    [/QUOTE]

    Part of the reason this doesn't make sense to me is the call to the bf. Of course, there are those who don't believe the call was made by Maura, but to those who do this theory doesn't work. If she had a cell phone in the woods, she wouldn't need to use a calling card to call her bf within the US.

    I also just don't see someone disappearing into the woods to die without having a specific method by which to kill him or herself. That would be a long, slow death. Also, now that it's been explained that the rag in the tailpipe came from Maura's own emergency kit, I do believe it was Maura who placed the rag there. I don't see her doing this if she planned to go off and die in the woods. Why would she care whether or not anyone noticed her car?
    Last edited by goldiegirl; 03-17-2011 at 03:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldiegirl View Post

    Part of the reason this doesn't make sense to me is the call to the bf. Of course, there are those who don't believe the call was made by Maura, but to those who do this theory doesn't work. If she had a cell phone in the woods, she wouldn't need to use a calling card to call her bf within the US.

    I also just don't see someone disappearing into the woods to die without having a specific method by which to kill him or herself. That would be a long, slow death. Also, now that it's been explained that the rag in the tailpipe came from Maura's own emergency kit, I do believe it was Maura who placed the rag there. I don't see her doing this if she planned to go off and die in the woods. Why would she care whether or not anyone noticed her car?
    Maura couldn't get a signal on the cell. She was trying to contact AAA to tow her car. One theory is that she left the scene to look for a land line to make the call. By her conversation with the bus driver, it looks like she wanted her car towed before the police showed up.

    She could have gone in the woods and drank herself to death, because she did have a few bottles of booze with her. Yet, I don't think she did that. I believe there was around 2 feet of snow on the ground at the time--not sure though (memory fail), but I do know there was snow on the ground. I think she only had shoes on--not boots, so it would have been very uncomfortable climbing around in the snowy, pitched black woods. I also think it could have been uncomfortable running down the road with bottles in her backpack clanging around too. Unless, she had something in her backpack such as clothes to dampen the movement. I believe she ran though, but how far is still a question.

    In my opinion, the rag doesn't mean anything. I don't think it has anything to do with her disappearance. It is like the packed boxes in her dorm room. There is probably an innocent explanation. IMO, whatever happened to her happened after she left the scene of her car accident in NH. I believe she may have been hit by a car, succumbed to the elements, or had met with foul play. This is all my opinion---so far.

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  1. NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #9
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