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Thread: UK - Joanna Yeates, Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #7

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadfael View Post
    Where does it state that her and MW had regular contact during the 18 months? Sorry I can't find this information so must have missed this?
    All I've seen is that they hadn't had face to face contact. That's why I don't think he could hav e been her dealer even if he was a dealer and even if she took drugs.

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  3. #102
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    JY parents burning desire to see the perp caught and prosecuted is so strong

    Yes. I noticed. Their burning desire was so strong, they posed for several professional photos, not a tear in their eyes, making sure to adhere to what has become their signature pose with their eyes fixed on the camera

    If anything even approaching the murder of my children occurred, I'd ram that photographer's camera where the sun will never shine before kicking him out of my door. Not for a million pounds would I be prepared to put on earrings and pose as I was told, knowing my child was DEAD !

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  5. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by brummster View Post
    All I've seen is that they hadn't had face to face contact. That's why I don't think he could hav e been her dealer even if he was a dealer and even if she took drugs.
    Totally agree with this. Surely if she was behind with payments she would have been a regular drug user. I think this is highly unlikely as there is nothing based on the facts that prove this.

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  7. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserdisc10 View Post
    He is the more traditional of the group, in the recent appeal. He's wearing black, the traditional colour of mourning

    Very nice of the Yeates, don't you think, to colour co-ordinate in shades of blue and light grey ? Can't have told him in advance, can they ? Or maybe they said they'd be wearing 'dark colours' for the televised appearance ? Always possible they all changed their minds, of course, and forgot to tell him
    I'm glad someone bought up the subject of attire. I really found Mrs Yeates top to be rather..... unusual..... fragmented images of newspaper clippings? I'm probably reading too much into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweep the cat View Post
    Luna 15
    I still wouldn't rule out a 'sexual game' gone wrong...... in fact would account for a lot imho

    Yes that was exactly what I was thinking Luna. And I feel that is the answer but who with!!! JMO
    I can only think GR.... I wont elaborate on scenarios.
    Not to help justice in her need would be an impiety ~Plato~

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  9. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by brummster View Post
    All I've seen is that they hadn't had face to face contact. That's why I don't think he could hav e been her dealer even if he was a dealer and even if she took drugs.
    But you don't know. In the same way we don't know 90% of any of it

    As individuals we may have our pet theories. We may want those theories to be right. But all we have is guesswork and theories. And a lot of our beliefs are based on making the facts FIT our pet theories

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  11. #106
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    let's hope the crimewatch special will help us in our thinking....and produce that vital witness needed...

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  13. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserdisc10 View Post
    Yes. I noticed. Their burning desire was so strong, they posed for several professional photos, not a tear in their eyes, making sure to adhere to what has become their signature pose with their eyes fixed on the camera

    If anything even approaching the murder of my children occurred, I'd ram that photographer's camera where the sun will never shine before kicking him out of my door. Not for a million pounds would I be prepared to put on earrings and pose as I was told, knowing my child was DEAD !
    I dont think unless anyone has been through this personally we are in any position to judge. IMO they are trying to stay in the public eye to maintain a regular media interest in this case. The fact that they aren't bawling at every opportunity does not mean anything, I think they have shown dignity and strength though out what must be a distressingly harrowing time.

    All JMO.

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  15. #108
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    IMO the family and BF didn't seem to 'sing from same hymn sheet' sorry about the pun. All in grey and blue him in black. Just my observation.
    The pizza could hve been left in a vehicle that originally took her home, the prints, if left on her glass at her flat could be taken from her body. As I said before, lots of time, lots of thinking, I dont think the murderer got lucky, he IMO was aware.

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  17. #109
    MW looks more like a killer but then he and GR both have receding hairlines, but MW is more bald.

    As for the fuss about how to move the body from the flat to a car. TBF I think it would be quite easy so long as the body was covered and you picked your time. Piffle to the drug deal gone wrong theory. They would use blackmail and her good name if she was involved in that and personally i don't think she was.


    One question: the mirror says there was no sign in her stomach of her having eaten the pizza BUT were there signs that perhaps she had eaten something else?!?

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  19. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserdisc10 View Post
    We often say 'no' when we're fixated on something else

    Everything I've written is entirely possible

    In fact, it's a lot more plausible than trying to convince that the guy who loved her for some reason killed her, yet there's no sign of a struggle on the body and police said no sign of forced entry or struggle

    As many here will remind you, they'd been in communication via texts, online, FB etc. during those 18 months. And we've no reason to believe they hadn't met. Who said they hadn't met -- a suspect ? We don't know what's fact and what isn't

    There's been no suggestion of drugs in the same way we don't even know what she was wearing when she died or when her body was discovered

    We know next to nothing. But what we do know is, apart from her killer perhaps, MW may well have been the last person who spoke with her

    So all theories are equally valid, seeing as we're fishing in the dark with the crumbs fed us by the media and LE

    Pays to keep an open mind, don't you think ?
    I agree with you in that MW is a plausible suspect. But the fact that there was no struggle or forced entry points to someone she was comfortable with, someone who perhaps had good reason to be in the flat, someone who perhaps had access to the flat (CJ still on my list too). He took her by surprise.

    You're right, we haven't got a clue what she was wearing when discovered. We do know what she was not wearing (the coat)...pointing to her having gone into the flat with perhaps no intention of leaving again.

    Yes yes to open minds - I still have not eliminated quite a few from my list of potential suspects until incontrovertible evidence is released.

  20. #111
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    We certainly need more info as do A & S Police seemingly. One can only hope that they are still trawling through miles of CCTV tape to find some more valuable info.
    I cannoy aee that the reconstruction will bear much fruit. I think that we have seen most of the original tape on the news.

  21. #112
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    It's ok for us to say how easy it is to dispose of a dead body from the comfort of our armchair.

    But we don't have to face a life sentence, and also the dreaded shame of once close friends to deal with.
    You stand to loose your own life should it go wrong. It isn't something you do nonchalant.

    I'm not buying the drugs or sex games thing. It's too lurid, no evidence of either ever happening, and the drug thing would have surfaced a long time ago. Gut instincts just say she isn't a druggie, even recreational.

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  23. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillb View Post
    It's ok for us to say how easy it is to dispose of a dead body from the comfort of our armchair.

    But we don't have to face a life sentence, and also the dreaded shame of once close friends to deal with. You stand to loose your own life should it go wrong. It isn't something you do nonchalant.

    I'm not buying the drugs or sex games thing. It's too lurid, no evidence of either ever happening, and the drug thing would have surfaced a long time ago. Gut instincts just say she isn't a druggie, even recreational.
    IMO I agree, no drugs or anything dodgy, again IMO just an ordinary girl with a future.

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  25. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadfael View Post
    I dont think unless anyone has been through this personally we are in any position to judge. IMO they are trying to stay in the public eye to maintain a regular media interest in this case. The fact that they aren't bawling at every opportunity does not mean anything, I think they have shown dignity and strength though out what must be a distressingly harrowing time.

    All JMO.

    Sure. But all the appeals and sorrowful photos in the world won't bring your child back

    Catching and jailing the killer won't bring your child back

    You're living your life, your children are grown and living on their own. Your life has a routine. Then, overnight, it's all gone. Nothing is the same or will ever be the same. It's that way if someone you love dies in an accident or from an illness or if they've been killed

    What good can it do you, when you're in that bottomless pit, to learn the police have found the killer, or want you to go on tv or pose by the roadside or on the docks ? Will that bring back your child ?

    The bereaved know that. They feel pain. Catching a killer (whether the death was inadvertent or deliberate) is hollow - is meaningless. That's the job of the police. But it's not a bandage, not an anaesthetic, can't repair the loss, the agony

    ' Leave me alone ' is what the bereaved generally moan. ' Go away. I don't care. I want my child back. Can you bring back my child ? Then go away and let me be. Nothing matters now. Go and do what you have to do and leave me alone '

    Most very recently bereaved parents just want to draw the curtains, close the door and for everyone to go far away

    The McCanns appeared to get over the alleged loss of their daughter overnight and were happy to perform for the media. Here again, with the Yeates, there's an almost addiction or obedience to the media. It's a very disturbing trend, imo

  26. #115
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    I still like [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6022916&postcount=387"]Nausicaa's hypothesis[/ame].

    Here is an extract as a reminder.
    The story is roughly this. After Joanna arrives home on the Friday night, she is invited (for instance by a close neighbour) to have a glass of Christmas sherry with him. She accepts and goes to his place, wearing shoes on her feet and taking her bag, but leaving in the flat her pizza which she was getting ready to eat.

    The neighbour knows Joanna and knows that Greg is away for the weekend. He does not know that Joanna has been recorded this evening on CCTV and he does not know that she has a till receipt in her handbag. Neither does he know that she made a call and sent a text after leaving her office party.
    I imagine him attacking and strangling Jo, in his own home, a little after 9 p.m. on the Friday evening. Once the deed is done, as a close neighbour, and having obviously no genuine alibi for the time when he is committing the murder, he fears that he will be interrogated and suspected. He wonders what to do to divert suspicion from himself. He is perhaps not strong enough to lug the body very far. He thinks of dumping it straight away with all the personal effects at a safe distance, but he realises that it is likely to be found soon and that the spotlight will be back on him.

    It occurs to him that the first person the police usually suspect is the spouse. Greg won’t do, as he is away for the week-end, but if the killer can succeed in fudging the timeline sufficiently, Greg might be suspected nevertheless. Failing that, the likeliest possibility to take the heat off himself would be for the police to believe that Joanna was killed in her own flat by an unknown chance intruder.

    The killer therefore takes Joanna’s effects back to her flat to give the impression that she was attacked there. Seeing her pizza, he removes it, to leave the timeline vague as to her meals. Then he has a stroke of genius: he ostentatiously scrubs an area of the floor with powerful bleach, so that the next entrant into the flat cannot fail to notice. This will infallibly give the impression of a “forensically aware” criminal cleaning up after a murder. This was what convinced the police and family that it was a murder even before there was a body. It was meant to. This was what the Yeates parents saw but were not allowed to reveal.

    Finally the killer leaves the flat and returns home where he loads the body into a tarp and takes it to a place of intermediate storage. After Greg is safely back home, he will dump it at some neutral spot he knows for timely discovery that will leave the police unable to determine a very exact time of death.
    I don't see why the killer might not necessarily be very strong, but it's not as if there is only one candidate who fits this scenario.

    Plod of course has had the opportunity to check out a lot of things here, which we know nothing of.

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  28. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by brummster View Post
    All I've seen is that they hadn't had face to face contact. That's why I don't think he could hav e been her dealer even if he was a dealer and even if she took drugs.
    But what if his involvement was to direct Jo to someone else who did have drugs?

    Ecstacy use is prevalent in the UK. So in cannabis use.

    MW could have tried to line up someone for her. Equally, one of the guys in the pubs she visited could have organised for someone to come round. Or they could have agreed to supply her with something themselves. We don't at all know she took drugs but we really can't rule it out. So many young professionals do.

  29. #117
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    I've been following this case and the discussions with great interest. What I haven't seen - and this puzzles me - is the consideration that this is a crime of both opportunity and passion. Jo's body was left where it should have been easily located (if it weren't for the snow). She was clearly an attractive and vivacious young woman. I'm sure quite a number of young men would have been very attracted to her.

    So, why no discussion of friends of her boyfriend? They/he may well have known he was to be away for the weekend. They/he may have been besotted with her. It seems natural for me for Jo to have run into someone familiar on the way home and inviting an acquaintance over to share a simple meal. An unwelcome advance, rebuffed, may have been a trigger for an unstable personality.

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  31. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottybail View Post
    They couldn't be because her prints would be on the bottle at point of purchase. It could confirm only that she touched the bottle at some point.
    Prints/DNA on the glass? But that falls apart as you would expect that on utensils in her home...back to the drawing board.

  32. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillb View Post
    It's ok for us to say how easy it is to dispose of a dead body from the comfort of our armchair.

    But we don't have to face a life sentence, and also the dreaded shame of once close friends to deal with.
    You stand to loose your own life should it go wrong. It isn't something you do nonchalant.

    I'm not buying the drugs or sex games thing. It's too lurid, no evidence of either ever happening, and the drug thing would have surfaced a long time ago. Gut instincts just say she isn't a druggie, even recreational.
    It's not the first time drugs have been mentioned in relation to this case in this forum though, Phillb, is it ?

    It was raised in thread 6. Raised as a possibility. And it was said then that drug use is very common in that age group, even those who're athletic, into sports, etc.

    Who takes all those drugs that the media and police mention daily ? Who are the consumers of all those massive amounts of drugs shown in the news when the police make a bust ?

    Not you ? Not me ? Well someone's taking them, obviously. Not 'Mr. Nobody' as your mother might say

    So it's a perfectly valid suggestion and I'm confident LE have investigated the possibility quite assiduously already

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  34. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie737 View Post
    I've been following this case and the discussions with great interest. What I haven't seen - and this puzzles me - is the consideration that this is a crime of both opportunity and passion. Jo's body was left where it should have been easily located (if it weren't for the snow). She was clearly an attractive and vivacious young woman. I'm sure quite a number of young men would have been very attracted to her.

    So, why no discussion of friends of her boyfriend? They/he may well have known he was to be away for the weekend. They/he may have been besotted with her. It seems natural for me for Jo to have run into someone familiar on the way home and inviting an acquaintance over to share a simple meal. An unwelcome advance, rebuffed, may have been a trigger for an unstable personality.
    We welcome you to WebSleuths, Jamie737.

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  36. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie737 View Post
    I've been following this case and the discussions with great interest. What I haven't seen - and this puzzles me - is the consideration that this is a crime of both opportunity and passion. Jo's body was left where it should have been easily located (if it weren't for the snow). She was clearly an attractive and vivacious young woman. I'm sure quite a number of young men would have been very attracted to her.

    So, why no discussion of friends of her boyfriend? They/he may well have known he was to be away for the weekend. They/he may have been besotted with her. It seems natural for me for Jo to have run into someone familiar on the way home and inviting an acquaintance over to share a simple meal. An unwelcome advance, rebuffed, may have been a trigger for an unstable personality.

    No marks upon the body when she was first discovered, according to what we've been told

    no scratches, no semen, no bruises, no signs of struggle upon the body or in the flat, according what we know

    No attempt to mutilate the body before or after death, as far as the public's been advised

    No sexual display of the body

    I know the public enjoys titillation with the sexual angle and it's virtually mandatory in crime shows. But in this case, there seems to be a total absence of sexual motivation, which thank god, must be some consolation to her boyfriend and family

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  38. #122
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    It's not the first time drugs have been mentioned in relation to this case in this forum though, Phillb, is it ?

    It was raised in thread 6. Raised as a possibility. And it was said then that drug use is very common in that age group, even those who're athletic, into sports, etc.
    Of course your absolutely right, anything can be possible in this, were at a complete loss to what happened.

    I'm a great believer in my gut instinct, it's been my best ally for 43 years lol.
    Everything, and the old intuition says drugs aren't a feature in Jo's life I.M.O.
    No toxicology, no contact numbers, or traceable contacts with shady pushers. The Police have her communications well covered. Just in my opinion it's a non starter.
    Last edited by Phillb; 01-18-2011 at 07:14 PM.

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  40. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillb View Post
    I wonder what his alibi is for the Saturday?
    Anyone know? Was he with half brother all the time? Same car?
    The Daily Mirror reported that a neighbour of his brother said they saw someone they thought was GR with skis in South Yorkshire on the Saturday and Sunday, while another said he spotted his car, which Frank told him belonged to his brother.

    Don't seem to positive do they ?

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  42. #124
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    Yes, no sexual assault. Thank God for small mercies. But I can imagine someone in a moment of uncalculated madness so that the first instinct is to silence and kill, not rape.
    Last edited by Jamie737; 01-18-2011 at 07:10 PM. Reason: omitted word

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  44. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Phillb View Post
    Of course your absolutely right, anything can be possible in this, were at a complete loss to what happened.

    I'm a great believer in my gut instict, it's been my best ally for 43 years lol.
    Everything, and the old intuition says drugs aren't a feature in Jo's life I.M.O.
    No toxicology, no contact numbers, or traceable contacts with shady pushers. The Police have her communications well covered. Just in my opinion it's a non starter.
    I agree. I think the 'drug deal short change murder theory' holds no water.

    Interesting theory to twadry things up, but that's it.

    Jo's is a murder by an intimate who got lucky with bad weather and some clever covering up.

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