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Thread: UT - Juab County, WhtFem (UP8382), 18-22, @Shore of Yuba Lake, Sep'78

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    UT - Juab County, WhtFem (UP8382), 18-22, @Shore of Yuba Lake, Sep'78

    NamUs UP # 8382 https://identifyus.org/cases/8382



    Unidentified White Female
    * The victim was discovered on September 03, 1978 on the shore of Yuba Lake in Rural Juab County, Utah.

    Vital Statistics

    * Estimated age: 18 to 22 years old
    * Approximate Height and Weight: 5'2"; weight unknown.
    * Distinguishing Characteristics: Light blond hair, around 11 inches long; Light brown pubic hair.
    * Clothing/Jewelry 1.5 inch wide double hoop earring, light yellow metal, fastener for nonpierced ears. White metal barrette.

    Case History

    The skeletal remains of the deceased were found on the shore of Yuba Lake.

    Rule-Outs
    Nancy Wilcox
    Susan Curtis
    Nancy Baird
    Debra Kent
    (all presumed victims of serial killer Ted Bundy)

    Last edited by CarlK90245; 04-09-2013 at 12:18 AM.

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    I just sent an e-maile to Craig Ryan of the Juab County Sheriff Dept. to propose Sandra Kaye Butler as a possible match.
    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...er_sandra.html



    Sandra was last seen on June 26, 1978, two months before this victim was discovered. This might be a short interval. According to one of the newspaper reports, the post-mortem interval was said to be up to three years.

    She had blonde/light brown hair (as did the UID), and based on the way her hair is pulled back in the photo, she appears to be wearing a barette, although it is not visible in the photo.

    She also bears a good resemblance to the facial reconstruction sketches of the Jane Doe.


    She was slightly younger (16) than the age estimates, and her height (5’0” to 5’1”) is an inch under to the estimated height of the unidentified victim.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-10-2012 at 12:04 AM.

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    Rebecca Kellison might be a good possible too.
    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...n_rebecca.html



    ... or Patricia Otto
    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/..._patricia.html


    ETA: Neither appear to have crooked teeth though (as indicated in one of the newspaper clippings).
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-10-2012 at 12:06 AM.

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    I tried to read the scanned articles and it looks like two of them say she had shoulder length brown hair, but NamUs says light blonde. Just wanted to point that out to expand the research.

    Could crooked front teeth be used to describe having a gap between one's front teeth? I would suggest Phyllis Berry who had a slight space between her two front teeth, but she was reported to be 5'5" and only one of her photos seems to have a likeness. She had pierced ears while the UID's jewelry had non-pierced fasteners. I suppose people with pierced ears could opt to wear non-pierce clasps.


    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...y_phyllis.html
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/544dftx.html
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-10-2012 at 12:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tifflee View Post
    I tried to read the scanned articles and it looks like two of them say she had shoulder length brown hair, but NamUs says light blonde. Just wanted to point that out to expand the research.

    Could crooked front teeth be used to describe having a gap between one's front teeth? I would suggest Phyllis Berry who had a slight space between her two front teeth, but she was reported to be 5'5" and only one of her photos seems to have a likeness. She had pierced ears while the UID's jewelry had non-pierced fasteners. I suppose people with pierced ears could opt to wear non-pierce clasps.


    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...y_phyllis.html
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/544dftx.html
    I wouldn't think that "crooked" would easily be confused for "gapped", and if the drawing is at all accurate, there doesn't appear to be a gap.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-10-2012 at 12:06 AM.

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    I agree, CarlK. Of the profiles you proposed, I think Rebecca Ellison's hairline is the best match (although her other photo on Charley Project made me do a double-take as it seemed night and day) while Patricia Otto's facial features are promising. Her nose in her photo just seems a bit wider at the bridge but it isn't a great quality photo and lighting makes a big difference.

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    A few observations regarding Jane Doe's dentals:

    It might just be an anomaly with the image - but If you zoom in on the drawing of her teeth, it appears that they are depicting her upper-right lateral incisor (#7) overlapping her upper-right central incisor (#8).



    Typically when upper teeth are crowded, the central incisors overlap the lateral incisors.

    On the dental charts, it says that three of her four upper incisors (7, 9 and 10) were lost postmortem. In the dental comments the only mention of crowded teeth are her lower right canine and lateral incisor (i.e., 26 and 27).

    It indicates in the comments section that images of the skull and teeth are in the images section. But they are not there. They must be hidden from public view.

    But if her #7 really did overlap #8, that would be interesting - because Angela Sigrid Ramsey's #7 overlaps her #8 (and her #10 overlaps her #9).


    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...ey_angela.html

    I've been resisting the temptation to suggest her as a possible, primarily because of the distance. It's possible that someone kidnapped her in Florida and drove her to Utah before murdering her, I just hate to have to go to that well for a possible scenario because that is not typically the way it happens.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-10-2012 at 12:07 AM.

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    I dont think you should opt out the possibility of Angela. There is no telling where people who hitchhike with truckers will end up. Florida is a state that has much transport activity. She might have thought she was going home but the perp had other ideas. Or, she might have thought it would be fun to travel the States with a trucker she thought was cool. No telling how far a dog can travel...this is a known fact!

    I think its a good possibility and worth submitting.

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    UT - UID Female 751UFUT, Juab County, 1978 to: CO - Rebecca Kellison, Denver, 1976

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/751ufut.html

    https://identifyus.org/cases/8382



    The victim was discovered on September 3, 1978 in Juab County, Utah
    Estimated Date of Death: 2-3 years prior

    Vital Statistics


    Estimated age: 18-22 years old
    Approximate Height and Weight: 5'2-5'3"; 110 lbs.
    Distinguishing Characteristics: Light blond hair, around 11 inches long.
    Jewelry: 1.5 inch wide double hoop earring, light yellow metal, fastener for nonpierced ears. White metal barrette.
    Dentals: Available. Teeth # 26-27 are crowded.
    Fingerprints: Not available.
    DNA: Not available.


    What gets me is the Namus file says the body Estimated postmortem interval is Months, the Doe Network says 2-3 years

    Doe Network give a height and weight 5'2 - 5'3, 110lbs, Namus says the height is 5'2 estimated and says it can't estimate a weight

    The newspaper article that is attached to the Namus file (under documents tab) says that the UID had crooked front teeth, brown shoulder length hair and the she has been ruled out as being the following missing Utah girls: Debra Kent, Nancy Wilcox, Susan Curtis, and Nancy Baird.

    The Doe Network says she has light blonde hair.

    The UID was strangled.


    So many inconsistancies!

    How about this girl?

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...n_rebecca.html

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2781dfco.html

    Rebecca Ann Kellison
    Missing since June 24, 1976 from Denver, Colorado
    Classification: Endangered Missing


    Vital Statistics

    Date of Birth: October 10, 1954
    Age at Time of Disappearance: 21 years old
    Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'4"; 110-113 lbs.
    Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Shoulder-length strawberry blond hair; blue eyes.
    Clothing: She was wearing blue jeans, brown suede jacket/coat, multicolored bikini-style underwear panties, a short-sleeve unknown color knit shirt and black boots.
    Dentals: Available.
    DNA: Available.
    Fingerprints: Available

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Circumstances of Disappearance
    Rebecca Kellison left the area of East Colfax Avenue and Madison Streetin Denver, en route to her residence in Aurora.
    It is possible that she may have been hitchhiking her way back home.

    She was also in possession of a blue shoulder purse and Armed Forces Dependent Identification Card - these items were found in a field in rural Adams County on December 26th, 1977.


    Age range, height, and weight are also within what the UID is listed as. I think the UID picture and the picture of Rebecca Resemble eachother.

    It states that Rebecca could have been hitchiking... Whomever picked her up could have dumped her body in Utah.

    Can anyone do a side by side picture comparsion? Carl, are you there?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by Cubby; 01-31-2011 at 09:16 PM. Reason: mrege posts due to duplicate thread/ rule out pos match

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    Rebecca Kellison might be a good possible too.
    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...n_rebecca.html



    ... or Patricia Otto
    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/..._patricia.html


    ETA: Neither appear to have crooked teeth though (as indicated in one of the newspaper clippings).
    Rebecca Kellison and Patricia Otto are both listed as Rule-outs in NamUs.

    https://identifyus.org/cases/8382
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-10-2012 at 12:08 AM.

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    Rebecca Kellison has been placed on the rule-outs list in the NamUs casefile for this UID.

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    one thing that jumped out at me in the description of the UID was the hair color. they said her head hair was "Light blond hair" yet she had "light brown" pubic hair. I don't recall seeing that type of information before.

    it says to me one of two things - 1. she dyed the hair on her head or 2. sun exposure lightened the color of the hair on her head.

    I would think that the pubic hair color is more accurate, i.e. light brown. whether her family reported the color as brown, blonde or sandy is beyond me, and to my knowledge, Namus does not give "light brown" as an option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    A few observations regarding Jane Doe's dentals:

    It might just be an anomaly with the image - but If you zoom in on the drawing of her teeth, it appears that they are depicting her upper-right lateral incisor (#7) overlapping her upper-right central incisor (#8).



    Typically when upper teeth are crowded, the central incisors overlap the lateral incisors.

    On the dental charts, it says that three of her four upper incisors (7, 9 and 10) were lost postmortem. In the dental comments the only mention of crowded teeth are her lower right canine and lateral incisor (i.e., 26 and 27).

    It indicates in the comments section that images of the skull and teeth are in the images section. But they are not there. They must be hidden from public view.

    But if her #7 really did overlap #8, that would be interesting - because Angela Sigrid Ramsey's #7 overlaps her #8 (and her #10 overlaps her #9).


    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...ey_angela.html

    I've been resisting the temptation to suggest her as a possible, primarily because of the distance. It's possible that someone kidnapped her in Florida and drove her to Utah before murdering her, I just hate to have to go to that well for a possible scenario because that is not typically the way it happens.
    I just sent an e-mail to Craig Ryan of the Juab County Sheriff to propose Angela Ramsey as a possible match.

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    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    one thing that jumped out at me in the description of the UID was the hair color. they said her head hair was "Light blond hair" yet she had "light brown" pubic hair. I don't recall seeing that type of information before.

    it says to me one of two things - 1. she dyed the hair on her head or 2. sun exposure lightened the color of the hair on her head.

    I would think that the pubic hair color is more accurate, i.e. light brown. whether her family reported the color as brown, blonde or sandy is beyond me, and to my knowledge, Namus does not give "light brown" as an option.
    it's possible to have light brown pubic hair and still be naturally blond.

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    Quote Originally Posted by malaika View Post
    it's possible to have light brown pubic hair and still be naturally blond.
    Indeed it is, and I'm glad someone said it before I had to. :P

    People can have a variety of different hair colors. There are many, many people who have darker body hair, including pubic hair and even the eyebrows, than they have naturally atop their head. Of course, this doesn't mean that this woman didn't dye her hair, but it doesn't mean that she certainly did.

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    Not sure if I missed something...

    How does Sept '08 relate to this UID? or is the title supposed to say Sept '78?

    TIA!
    A run-away may leave on purpose, but that doesn't mean that they are able to get back home.... Never stop searching.

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  30. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    I just sent an e-maile to Craig Ryan of the Juab County Sheriff Dept. to propose Sandra Kaye Butler as a possible match.
    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...er_sandra.html



    Sandra was last seen on June 26, 1978, two months before this victim was discovered. This might be a short interval. According to one of the newspaper reports, the post-mortem interval was said to be up to three years.

    She had blonde/light brown hair (as did the UID), and based on the way her hair is pulled back in the photo, she appears to be wearing a barette, although it is not visible in the photo.

    She also bears a good resemblance to the facial reconstruction sketches of the Jane Doe.


    She was slightly younger (16) than the age estimates, and her height (5’0” to 5’1”) is an inch under to the estimated height of the unidentified victim.
    Sandra Butler was added to the NamUs rule-out list today. That leaves Angela Ramsay as the only unresolved of the four that I proposed.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-10-2012 at 12:09 AM.

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    Barbara Carol Brown has some similarities in appearance, height, age, timing etc. She was an American tourist from Texas who went missing while backpacking in Australia, May 1978. It is not impossible she decided on the spur of the moment to return to America with the intention of notifying people on both continents who cared about her once she got there, but then died before letting anyone know she was back.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/644dfnsw.html

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  34. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by reasypeasy View Post
    Barbara Carol Brown has some similarities in appearance, height, age, timing etc. She was an American tourist from Texas who went missing while backpacking in Australia, May 1978. It is not impossible she decided on the spur of the moment to return to America with the intention of notifying people on both continents who cared about her once she got there, but then died before letting anyone know she was back.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/644dfnsw.html
    One would think that the INS would have some record of her returning to the U.S. (whether by boat or by airline)

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    One would think that the INS would have some record of her returning to the U.S. (whether by boat or by airline)
    How well were such things tracked in 1978? I mean it is one thing for the information to have been processed and be there in some batch stored file box somewhere, it is quite another thing to know which file box at which office when you don't know which particular entry to/exit from a country she may have used and on which day.

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  37. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by reasypeasy View Post
    How well were such things tracked in 1978? I mean it is one thing for the information to have been processed and be there in some batch stored file box somewhere, it is quite another thing to know which file box at which office when you don't know which particular entry to/exit from a country she may have used and on which day.
    I see what you mean. It's a longshot, but I suppose it's possible that she bought an airline ticket with cash, and went through customs without anyone in the US thinking to check the INS records.

    The resemblance certainly is there. Her teeth look pretty straight though. The UID was described as having crooked teeth.

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    Anyone think Patricia Spencer might be worth a look in comparison to the Yuba Lake Jane Doe?



    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/11479/2
    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/..._patricia.html

    As of this moment, Patricia's NamUs casefile still doesn't have a photo, but I was able to find her photo in the 1969 Oscoda High School (Oscoda MI) yearbook (available in Classmates.com).

    There's a nine-year lag between DLC and discovery, but the remains were estimated to have been there for about 3 years according to the newspaper clippings shown in the Documents section of YLJD's NamUs casefile. NamUs indicates the postmortem interval as "months". Who knows how accurate that estimate is.

    Her height is within an inch, and her age is right. She has blonde hair, and a similarly strong chin. FWIW, her nose is similar too, though that doesn't count for much since the remains were skeletal.

    The UID was wearing clip-on earrings which might suggest that her ears weren't pierced. I cannot see any indication in the photo that she had pierced ears, though it is not conclusive due to the quality of the photo.

    ETA: Since head hair and pubic hair was still present on the remains, I would suspect that she had not been there for 9 years. However, if she was a runaway as opposed to a victim of foul play, she might have been on the run for several years prior to her death.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-10-2012 at 12:25 PM.

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  40. #23
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    I like your possible above, Carl. Here are two others I found:

    Nancy Kirkpatrick:
    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/3897/19/

    Teresa Cupps:
    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/12468/4/
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Irish_Eyes; 11-25-2011 at 05:41 PM. Reason: Brain still on turkey overload

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    How about Lynn Ruth Connes?

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/827dfca.html

    She was last seen May 20, 1976 (which fits the window for 2-3 years on estimated date of death)

    She is within the age range. She disappeared at age 20

    She has blond hair like the UID and her height is only one inch taller than the UID's estimated height

    She also seems to resemble the UID.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  43. #25
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    hi everyone,
    i have 2 questions: was hair dye as common in 1978 as it is now? and secondly, how common would it be for a young woman in 1978 to not have pierced ears?
    edit; regarding hitchhiking/truckers, i also noticed on google earth theres an exit for I-15 a few miles north of yuba lake.
    thanks!

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