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Thread: DA: W. Phila abortion doc killed woman, 7 infants

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    DA: W. Phila abortion doc killed woman, 7 infants

    http://www.philly.com/inquirer/break..._indicted.html

    A West Philadelphia abortion doctor has been charged with the murder of a patient and seven live infants whose spines were severed with scissors, officials said today.

    District Attorney Seth Williams said the doctor, Kermit P. Gosnell, was indicted following a grand jury investigation.

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    Just wanted to add the news article is extremely disturbing.

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    I hope all of them are put away for a very long time. These people are sick.

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    http://w3.health.state.ny.us/opmc/factions.nsf/0/d26af17aeb7e849985256a4a0047d322/$FILE/lc107476.pdf

    NY disciplinary charges from 1996.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownRice View Post
    Just wanted to add the news article is extremely disturbing.
    Very much so.

    from another article:

    http://www.lifenews.com/2011/01/19/p...bortion-death/

    Last March, the Pennsylvania Department of Health found the abortion center had violated more than a dozen health and safety laws ranging from a lack of equipment and drugs for emergency resuscitation to not having a way to get patients to a hospital or a backup physician. The Philadelphia Inquirer indicated at the time that Gosnell also delayed the report to the state concerning the woman who died in the failed abortion. He had until April 12 to respond to the charges but has failed to do so, and missed an extension taking him to April 30.

    In the raid, officials found what amounted to a “house of horrors” — including collection jars containing the remains of pre-born babies dating back 30 years along with filthy and unsafe conditions and evidence that unlicensed workers had been illegally treating patients. The office has no access for a stretcher in the case of an emergency. In previous emergencies, care was delayed because exit doors were padlocked shut or blocked with debris from the clinic.

    A deficiency report noted that the only source of suction for patients with airway tubes was the same suction machine used for abortions. Filthy and unsanitary conditions were also cited.

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    What a horrific story. He should have been arrested and the clinic shut down long ago.
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    Barbaric! This is horrendous! What sort of monster can kill babies by severing their spines with scissors! I cannot imagine what the mothers witnessed and my heart goes out to any woman who was desperate enough to feel she needed his "sevices". I know the people involved will be judged harshly for their actions when their time comes. I dont need to condemn them, they have already done it for me.

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    Philly Abortion Doctor Facing 8 Counts Of Murder

    http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/201...nts-of-murder/

    Philly Abortion Doctor Facing 8 Counts Of Murder



    PHILADELPHIA (CBS) – A West Philadelphia abortion doctor, his wife and eight other suspects are now under arrest following a grand jury investigation.

    Dr. Kermit Gosnell, 69, faces eight counts of murder in the deaths of a woman following a botched abortion at his office, along with the deaths of seven other babies who, prosecutors allege, were born alive following illegal late-term abortions and then were killed by severing their spinal cords with a pair of scissors.
    This is so horrific. He's a butcher, IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mimimama5 View Post
    Barbaric! This is horrendous! What sort of monster can kill babies by severing their spines with scissors! I cannot imagine what the mothers witnessed and my heart goes out to any woman who was desperate enough to feel she needed his "sevices". I know the people involved will be judged harshly for their actions when their time comes. I dont need to condemn them, they have already done it for me.
    What the mothers witnessed? These were "illegal late term abortions". They dialate the cervix and the woman goes into "labor", the fetus is typically born alive (though it likely can't live long because the lungs are under-developed).

    At that point they either wait for the fetus to die (as it surely will) or they sever the spinal cord to get it over with faster. Late term abortions are very rare and the few clinics that perform them legally usually only do so if the mothers life is in danger.

    I am not getting involved in the politics of the matter but that is obviously what happened here. I personally do not feel bad for the mothers at all, they chose to wait that long and they likely didn't "witness" the severing of the spinal cord.

    It doesn't give the age of the fetuses (could have been 6 months along which means they couldn't possibly have survived or they could have been 8.5 months along which means it was basically inducing labor and killing a viable infant). Unless this Dr. was a complete nut they likely were not viable.
    Last edited by Sonya610; 01-19-2011 at 03:17 PM.

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    There's a thread about this guy in the Crimes in the News forum, as well:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125702"]DA: W. Phila abortion doc killed woman, 7 infants - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonya610 View Post
    What the mothers witnessed? These were "illegal late term abortions". They dialate the cervix and the woman goes into "labor", the fetus is typically born alive (though it likely can't live long because the lungs are under-developed).

    At that point they either wait for the fetus to die (as it surely will) or they sever the spinal cord to get it over with faster. Late term abortions are very rare and the few clinics that perform them legally usually only do so if the mothers life is in danger.

    I am not getting involved in the politics of the matter but that is obviously what happened here. The mothers didn't turn him in for "murdering" their babies because they hired him to do it!

    It doesn't give the age of the fetuses (could have been 6 months along which means they couldn't possibly have survivled or they could have been 8.5 months along which means it was basically inducing labor and killing a viable infant). Unless this Dr. was a complete nut they likely were not viable.
    In one of the articles posted, it says the babies were born at 6, 7 and 8 months.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Recovering-Lurker View Post
    In one of the articles posted, it says the babies were born at 6, 7 and 8 months.
    That's definitely beyond the age of viability. Jamming a pair of scissors into the neck of a born-alive BABY and severing its spinal cord is something horrific and almost unimaginable to me.

    Not trying to turn the thread into a political argument, but if this isn't murder, then I don't know what is!


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    Yes, they were infants born as late as eight months, and the murder charges stem from the fact that they could have survived had they been given medical treatment after BIRTH.

    This is a tough issue for me, personally. I don't support partial birth or late term abortion, because to me, it is a baby at that point in time. I do however, support a woman's right to choose within the first four to five months of pregnancy. But this was not the first four or five months. These were infants, point blank. If you have to sever their spinal cords to kill them, it's murder, not abortion.
    JMO. Unless there's a link, I can't prove it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonya610 View Post
    What the mothers witnessed? These were "illegal late term abortions". They dialate the cervix and the woman goes into "labor", the fetus is typically born alive (though it likely can't live long because the lungs are under-developed).

    At that point they either wait for the fetus to die (as it surely will) or they sever the spinal cord to get it over with faster. Late term abortions are very rare and the few clinics that perform them legally usually only do so if the mothers life is in danger.

    I am not getting involved in the politics of the matter but that is obviously what happened here. I personally do not feel bad for the mothers at all, they chose to wait that long and they likely didn't "witness" the severing of the spinal cord.

    It doesn't give the age of the fetuses (could have been 6 months along which means they couldn't possibly have survived or they could have been 8.5 months along which means it was basically inducing labor and killing a viable infant). Unless this Dr. was a complete nut they likely were not viable.

    I, in my very humble opinion, feel it is very harsh to judge the women who had abortions done by this so called human being. I will admit, for the very first time, I am not a fan of abortion. *My* personal belief, but I would never judge another for their own personal choice. That said, late term abortions make me want to vomit if it performed simply to get rid of child and has absolutely no medical justifications.

    This less than a human being committed murder and who knows what he, or others, told some of these women. I'm going to toss a bone there and will wait for more information before I hold accountable some who chose to go to him for "procedures".

    This whole investigation makes me ill. Dear God....
    "I went to the bank and asked to borrow a cup of money. They said, "What for?". I said, "I'm going to buy some sugar".

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeFromLB View Post
    That's definitely beyond the age of viability. Jamming a pair of scissors into the neck of a born-alive BABY and severing its spinal cord is something horrific and almost unimaginable to me.

    Not trying to turn the thread into a political argument, but if this isn't murder, then I don't know what is!
    I don't think this story should be political at all. This is on a totally different level regarding a s.o.b. who took advantage for a buck. I'm still trying to digest this....
    "I went to the bank and asked to borrow a cup of money. They said, "What for?". I said, "I'm going to buy some sugar".

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    Quote Originally Posted by not_my_kids View Post
    Yes, they were infants born as late as eight months, and the murder charges stem from the fact that they could have survived had they been given medical treatment after BIRTH.

    This is a tough issue for me, personally. I don't support partial birth or late term abortion, because to me, it is a baby at that point in time. I do however, support a woman's right to choose within the first four to five months of pregnancy. But this was not the first four or five months. These were infants, point blank. If you have to sever their spinal cords to kill them, it's murder, not abortion.
    I would gently argue (truly with respect, friend) the timing of a 4-5 month abortion. Perhaps do to the fact that I miscarried at that later time frame. But, your point is well made regarding severing spinal cords. Sweet Mary, I just cannot grasp this.
    "I went to the bank and asked to borrow a cup of money. They said, "What for?". I said, "I'm going to buy some sugar".

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    I just read this on my local news, and came here to post about it! I don't care what anyones stance on abortion is, I think we can all agree, this is wrong and absolutely heartbreaking!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrdinaryLife View Post
    I would gently argue (truly with respect, friend) the timing of a 4-5 month abortion. Perhaps do to the fact that I miscarried at that later time frame. But, your point is well made regarding severing spinal cords. Sweet Mary, I just cannot grasp this.
    And I understand. And remember, my abortion views are odd. I support it for others, but couldn't ever do it myself, so there's a lot that I don't understand about the mindset of the mother and things of that nature. Five months is the latest that I can see anyone being able to say that it's not a baby. (Not to start a debate on when a baby becomes a baby...really, just from talking to people that have had abortions and reading online and things like that. I know we all have our own views on that.)
    There are a lot of places in the U.S. where you can't even abort that far into a pregnancy, but I could accept a mother's choice up until about five months along. After that, it's difficult for me to see how anyone could do it, even in the countries where extremely late term abortion is still legal.

    But this...at eight months gestation, born and out of the womb, even partially, even to me, with my rather loose definitions of fetus versus child, that's a baby. I hope that the mothers were deceived, somehow and that they were not aware what they were signing up for. (I don't quite see how, but hey, I can hope.) it's bad enough to have one person that could be capable of doing this, but how did he find an entire office staff that supported and assisted him in doing this?
    Sorry, my aunt and I were discussing this case on the phone just after I saw it here. She was offered the opportunity to work in an abortion clinic and being just out of nursing school, she took the job. But even with as badly as she needed the job, she was vigilant about keeping an eye on things, like the training of the other staff, the amounts of drugs given, and the cleanliness of the facility. She was never comfortable with it, but she had her own family to feed. This shocked her and brought her to tears, and she has worked at a facility that almost exclusively catered to abortions. (Although it was up to code and met every standard.)

    I'm sorry for rambling, but this is not the kind of thing that you can expect to read about in the U.S. We shouldn't be reading about it anywhere, but you really don't expect it in a major US metropolis.
    JMO. Unless there's a link, I can't prove it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by not_my_kids View Post
    And I understand. And remember, my abortion views are odd. I support it for others, but couldn't ever do it myself, so there's a lot that I don't understand about the mindset of the mother and things of that nature. Five months is the latest that I can see anyone being able to say that it's not a baby. (Not to start a debate on when a baby becomes a baby...really, just from talking to people that have had abortions and reading online and things like that. I know we all have our own views on that.)
    There are a lot of places in the U.S. where you can't even abort that far into a pregnancy, but I could accept a mother's choice up until about five months along. After that, it's difficult for me to see how anyone could do it, even in the countries where extremely late term abortion is still legal.

    But this...at eight months gestation, born and out of the womb, even partially, even to me, with my rather loose definitions of fetus versus child, that's a baby. I hope that the mothers were deceived, somehow and that they were not aware what they were signing up for. (I don't quite see how, but hey, I can hope.) it's bad enough to have one person that could be capable of doing this, but how did he find an entire office staff that supported and assisted him in doing this?
    Sorry, my aunt and I were discussing this case on the phone just after I saw it here. She was offered the opportunity to work in an abortion clinic and being just out of nursing school, she took the job. But even with as badly as she needed the job, she was vigilant about keeping an eye on things, like the training of the other staff, the amounts of drugs given, and the cleanliness of the facility. She was never comfortable with it, but she had her own family to feed. This shocked her and brought her to tears, and she has worked at a facility that almost exclusively catered to abortions. (Although it was up to code and met every standard.)

    I'm sorry for rambling, but this is not the kind of thing that you can expect to read about in the U.S. We shouldn't be reading about it anywhere, but you really don't expect it in a major US metropolis.

    No worries, NMK's. I, like yourself, could never make that decision. Without going into details (I'm probably already sharing too much, but I'm way older now and don't care. <grin>), there was a time and reality hit. That's when I knew, ***for me***, not an option. That said, I would never judge another. Anyhoo.....

    I am interested to see the findings regarding this s.o.b. and I'm sure more details will eventually come out. This is a crime and should not go into the abortion debate. Two very separate issues. Scissors, spinal cords, and death. I'm still beside myself that any person could practice with such hateful death intent for money.....
    "I went to the bank and asked to borrow a cup of money. They said, "What for?". I said, "I'm going to buy some sugar".

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    My coworker pointed this one out to me this morning and I am just sickened. This whole case is just horrifying.
    If no link is provided it's a good bet it's simply

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    Quote Originally Posted by Recovering-Lurker View Post
    In one of the articles posted, it says the babies were born at 6, 7 and 8 months.
    I know two girls, one now 20ish and the other 4 that were born between the 5-6 month state and both are fine, bright, happy girls. Both babies, when born, spent several weeks to months in the hospital before they could come home but they were fighters and come home they did. And they are both doing fine.

    This is horrendous.

    Salem

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    This is not abortion, this is murder. That is what he was charged with and rightly so.
    What I don't understand is the arguement about doing a late stage abortion to save the life of the mother. That makes no sense. If the mother's life is in danger you could deliver the child, not kill it. How does the death of a child save the mother's life?
    About the only case I would even consider a late stage abortion, and that is iffy, is in a case where the child would not possible survive after the birth due to defects or disorders. In that case I can understand a mother deciding to have the child born earlier to spare more pain to the family, but even in that case the child should never be murdered, just allowed a natural death. I do know of several situations where this has been the case and the mothers have all chosen to carry to term. I can't imagine how painful that must be.

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    This makes me feel sick and I am seriously going to v-o-m-i-t

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    This guy really is a loon. He also infected a bunch of his patients with VD because he wasn't sterilizing the instruments! 38 year years ago he was involved in a political stunt that bought 15 women to the clinic for a free "mothers day abortion", they didn't tell the women they were going to use a new eperimental coil device and most of them ended up deathly ill when it punctured their uterus.

    More interesting, his wife was part of this. They have arrested 8 of his employees, NONE of which had any medical training, and 4 of which are now charged with murder.

    They are not releasing the names of ANY of those eight employees (at least not that I have seen). You know he wasn't hiring people by placing want ads, I am guessing they were all related somehow and that is why the names aren't being published.

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  48. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonya610 View Post
    I personally do not feel bad for the mothers at all, they chose to wait that long and they likely didn't "witness" the severing of the spinal cord.
    With all due respect do you know why they chose to wait so long?

    Almost all of these women are from a lower socio economic background. They live in poverty. Most never had a stable family life in their entire lives. Perhaps they were lied to by the partner who had good intentions? Perhaps they couldn't get the money together until later? Maybe they were so overburdened with other children and difficulties it took them that long to get to the murderer of women in sad, desperate situations.

    BTW, not all the abortions were late term either.

    Personally I have not seen the inside of the joint, but know two women that did. One walked out as soon as she saw the inside of the place. These women were recovering on lounge chairs for heavens sake.

    Yes, yes they should have all had birth control or made the partner wear a barrier method. I know. However living life like some of these women do that's not on the priority list.

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