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  1. #1
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    Meredith Kercher murdered - Amanda Knox convicted, now appeals #5

    I'm opening a new thread so everyone can discuss the Court's recent DNA decisions.

    Please - remember to treat each other respectfully. Please review your post before hitting send to double check that if someone, unfamiliar with the case were to come to the thread, they would understand your point, would not feel like the thread belongs to just a few posters and would feel very comfortable jumping in the discussion.

    There is bound to be some frustration between the two opposing sides, that's okay as long as that frustration does not come out as baiting or attacking or as a refusal to accept the other side has a different opinion, based on their own interpretation of the facts of the case. Remember, it is NOT your job to convince the other side that your theory is the only correct one.

    Okay - please continue here. I am looking forward to this discussion. I will let all of you find the links and recent news stories.

    Salem

    Previous Threads

    Thread 4 - to be added after review.

    Thread 3

    Thread 2

    Thread 1
    Last edited by KateB; 06-11-2015 at 04:25 PM. Reason: repair url tag.

  2. #2
    "Amanda Knox's appeal took what her lawyers called a positive step Saturday when an Italian court appointed two independent experts to review DNA evidence found on the knife allegedly used to murder her roommate"

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl..._italian_.html

  3. #3
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    The independent experts asked that they be able to remove the handle of the knife to look for blood/DNA. Neither the defense for Amanda nor Raffaele objected to this. Hellman has ruled that the handle only be removed if deemed absolutely necessary. The prosecution and lawyer for Meredith did, however, object to the removal of the handle for additional testing.

    http://www.umbria24.it/omicidio-mere...aro/16995.html

    http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/News/Cr...578772183.html

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malkmus View Post
    The independent experts asked that they be able to remove the handle of the knife to look for blood/DNA. Neither the defense for Amanda nor Raffaele objected to this. Hellman has ruled that the handle only be removed if deemed absolutely necessary. The prosecution and lawyer for Meredith did, however, object to the removal of the handle for additional testing.

    http://www.umbria24.it/omicidio-mere...aro/16995.html

    http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/News/Cr...578772183.html
    Unless specified otherwise and linked, my posts are simply random thoughts of mine, in no particular order, not directed at any post or poster, including but not limited to the ones directly above mine. My opinion only, yours may vary. IMO. JMO. IMHO. JMHO. MOO. Disclaimer, small print, asterisk, and etc.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malkmus View Post
    The independent experts asked that they be able to remove the handle of the knife to look for blood/DNA. Neither the defense for Amanda nor Raffaele objected to this. Hellman has ruled that the handle only be removed if deemed absolutely necessary. The prosecution and lawyer for Meredith did, however, object to the removal of the handle for additional testing.

    http://www.umbria24.it/omicidio-mere...aro/16995.html

    http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/News/Cr...578772183.html
    Yes, welcome and thank you!

    I wonder why the prosecution and MK's lawyer are objecting to the removal of the handle...

    I've minced no words in expressing my belief that this knife is one of the weaker elements of the prosecutor's case. I just don't see AK or RS deciding to carry an unwieldy kitchen knife out for the evening "just for fun".

  6. #6
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    The prosecution and lawyer for Meredith did, however, object to the removal of the handle for additional testing.
    I wonder what they're afraid of? It's a logical request. Every single part of that knife should be tested, especially if they are saying that was the murder weapon.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    I've minced no words in expressing my belief that this knife is one of the weaker elements of the prosecutor's case. I just don't see AK or RS deciding to carry an unwieldy kitchen knife out for the evening "just for fun".
    I agree that it makes no sense for either RS or AK to carry an 8" kitchen knife out with them. RS had his own knife collection, including at least one folding knife. Why walk around with a kitchen knife? For what purpose? Even the judge in his report thought the murder was not premeditated -- he believed the sex game gone wrong B.S.

    But yet, this kitchen knife is supposedly the murder weapon? I am highly suspicious of it and the testing that was done on it.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleuthyGal View Post
    I agree that it makes no sense for either RS or AK to carry an 8" kitchen knife out with them. RS had his own knife collection, including at least one folding knife. Why walk around with a kitchen knife? For what purpose? Even the judge in his report thought the murder was not premeditated -- he believed the sex game gone wrong B.S.

    But yet, this kitchen knife is supposedly the murder weapon? I am highly suspicious of it and the testing that was done on it.
    That's precisely my reasoning. Carrying an 8" kitchen knife around is far more likely to end in the knife's owner being cut than anyone else. And that is assuming no premeditation.

    If one takes the opposite tack and presumes premeditation, then it makes no sense to bring a weapon that is so difficult to conceal.

    All in all and IMHO, it takes a huge leap to believe that kitchen knife is one of the murder weapons. Even if they CAN find MK's DNA on it, I'd sooner believe contamination of some sort than that AK carried that knife to her house as a toy.

    (The only other thing I might believe is that AK borrowed the knife *IF AND ONLY IF* the girls had no kitchen knives of their own; but I have heard no testimony to that effect.)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    That's precisely my reasoning. Carrying an 8" kitchen knife around is far more likely to end in the knife's owner being cut than anyone else. And that is assuming no premeditation.

    If one takes the opposite tack and presumes premeditation, then it makes no sense to bring a weapon that is so difficult to conceal.

    All in all and IMHO, it takes a huge leap to believe that kitchen knife is one of the murder weapons. Even if they CAN find MK's DNA on it, I'd sooner believe contamination of some sort than that AK carried that knife to her house as a toy.

    (The only other thing I might believe is that AK borrowed the knife *IF AND ONLY IF* the girls had no kitchen knives of their own; but I have heard no testimony to that effect.)
    minor correction ... but ... According to the motivation report the knife, in total length, was 31 cm; which is equivalent to 12.2".

    "a large knife of point and blade comprising in total a length of 31 cm (seized at SOLLECITO’s on November 6, 2007, Exhibit 36)"

    Ref: pg 11; Motivation Report

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    minor correction ... but ... According to the motivation report the knife, in total length, was 31 cm; which is equivalent to 12.2".

    "a large knife of point and blade comprising in total a length of 31 cm (seized at SOLLECITO’s on November 6, 2007, Exhibit 36)"

    Ref: pg 11; Motivation Report
    Thanks. And that's hardly a minor correction, since it makes my point even stronger (i.e., a foot-long knife is even more difficult to handle safely and conceal).

    But is it possible we're talking about an 8" blade with a 3 or 4" handle? That sounds like a steak knife to me (though I'm no expert on kitchenware).

    In any event, good to see you here, my friend. I missed you and the whole "gang" during the hiatus.

    Query: IIRC, you felt retesting the knife evidence could only help RS, not AK. Do you want to repeat your reasoning on that? I think I had a couple of questions, but I don't want to summarize your argument for fear of getting it wrong.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    Thanks. And that's hardly a minor correction, since it makes my point even stronger (i.e., a foot-long knife is even more difficult to handle safely and conceal).

    But is it possible we're talking about an 8" blade with a 3 or 4" handle? That sounds like a steak knife to me (though I'm no expert on kitchenware).

    In any event, good to see you here, my friend. I missed you and the whole "gang" during the hiatus.

    Query: IIRC, you felt retesting the knife evidence could only help RS, not AK. Do you want to repeat your reasoning on that? I think I had a couple of questions, but I don't want to summarize your argument for fear of getting it wrong.
    Indeed ... always interesting to follow the case updates. What do you make of the handle testing?

    I think you're referring to a post where I said it the other way around. I said that re-testing the knife helped Amanda and retesting the bra clasp helped Raffaele ... but that DNA implicating each of them was being retested.

  12. #12
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    Yeah a 12 inch knife being carried around is not very plausible. There was no reason for it to be carried around outside. As such, I find it highly convenient that this knife was pulled out of the kitchen drawer (or wherever it was), at random, and happened to have a tiny bit of MK and AK DNA on it.

    As SNL's church lady (played by Dana Carvey) would say, "Well isn't that con-veeeeeeeeeeeen-yent!"

  13. #13
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    If the bra clasp DNA and the knife DNA can be successfully challenged, then that effectively removes the most damaging physical evidence against each defendant in the appeal. It doesn't remove all the physical evidence, but minimizing or even discarding those 2 items may well be enough to create reasonable doubt and a reversal of the sentence.

  14. #14
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    Thanks for the warm welcome, guys. Yes, Massei's conclusion that Amanda was carrying the knife around in her purse for protection is ridiculous for many reasons. But even if you can imagine a girl carrying a large kitchen knife around it makes little to no sense when we know that Amanda was already carrying mace spray and that there would be no need to borrow Raffaele's one big knife when the cottage she shared had a relative armory of similar knives at her disposal. I've noticed that most people who believe she is guilty don't even buy into Massei's theory and prefer to believe it was actually premeditated. Though that requires motive, of which there was none.

    The knife retesting will be interesting. It was never fair during the first trial considering that the prosecution denied the defense access to the electronic data files. And this latest "objection" to opening the handle while the defense is leaning back saying "go ahead" is very telling.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    Indeed ... always interesting to follow the case updates. What do you make of the handle testing?

    I think you're referring to a post where I said it the other way around. I said that re-testing the knife helped Amanda and retesting the bra clasp helped Raffaele ... but that DNA implicating each of them was being retested.
    Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying the knife DNA hurts RS because it puts MK's DNA at his house where she had never been; therefore, if that DNA is disallowed, it can only help RS. To me, if the knife DNA is lost, it helps both AK and RS, since both were at the apartment that night and yet we have not a single speck of MK's DNA transferred from the bloody murder scene. And at least we put aside the specter of either or both of them running around town with a foot-long knife in hand. Not absolute proof of innocence, obviously, but better than a claim that puts the victim's DNA on a knife in an apartment she had never visited.

    The bra clasp is only slightly more convincing to me than the knife DNA. I think it was invented (perhaps with good intentions) long after the fact to fit the prosecutor's "sex games gone mad" theory. Even if the DNA is retested and shown to belong to RS, how can retesting prove or disprove whether there was contamination?

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