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Thread: UK - Joanna Yeates Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #12

  1. #201
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    I finally understand "sub-judice rules" in UK law ... "sequestered" in US law ... "freedom of information with the influence and adverse effects of that on various matters including criminal justice"

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colombo View Post
    regarding the sightings of cars and 4x4s

    it appears to be accepted that VT does not own a car

    and there is speculation to whether he had access to cars of friends or neighbours

    there is also the sightings of various cars in the Failand area

    however these sightings need closer examination as they do effect the time line and the case against him

    1) the light coloured 4 x 4

    On the night Miss Yeates went missing it was the Captain's Dinner at Long Ashton Golf Club, attended by about 80 men and women.

    Two members were about to drive home when they saw a light-coloured 4x4 car pull into the entrance at about 11.20pm.

    Caught on CCTV, the driver appeared to notice the key-code operated barriers and hastily did a U-turn before speeding off in the direction of Longwood Lane, which is only about 100 yards away.


    http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/...l/article.html

    now assuming that this was the car that vt is alleged to have used then using a timing of 11 minutes max to get to the golfclub from Canynge Road

    and presumably time to place the body / bag in the car that would give a departure time from Canynge Road of 11pm latest

    It has been reported the cctv on the bridge is not clear before 12 midnight when the lights are switched off

    Could the vehicle thus be identified? was this the vehicle at all?



    I believe the following reports are more probable for the identity of the car

    the tradesmans car

    Officers are also trying to trace a silver saloon car left parked in the middle of the road outside Miss Yeates’s flat hours after she was last seen alive.

    Neighbours reported the vehicle in the early hours of December 18. Other cars had to mount the pavement to pass around it.

    The car, believed to belong to a tradesman because it had tools and light bulbs on the seats, was moved before 10am but nobody saw the driver.

    Officers say the owner might have had trouble in the snow which fell that night and they want to eliminate him or her from their investigation.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1DFEhWwGr
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...lied-late.html


    the mysterious car

    http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/...l/article.html

    A mysterious car was seen being driven slowly up and down Longwood Lane on the day after Joanna Yeates was last seen alive.

    A couple became suspicious when the vehicle passed them three or four times on the morning of Saturday, December 18, the Evening Post can reveal.

    They reported what they saw to police, not knowing 25-year-old architect Miss Yeates had gone missing from her Clifton flat the night before, and would be found dead on the side of the same road near Failand a week later, on Christmas morning.

    the cctv evidence ?

    Police have been holding dramatic CCTV evidence that they believe shows the car in which they believe Miss Yeates’s body was being taken to be disposed of just hours after she was murdered.
    The evidence captures what detectives believe to be the car containing her body being driven over Clifton Suspension Bridge in Bristol the morning after the killing of landscape architect Miss Yeates, on its way to dumping her body three miles away in a lane in nearby Failand.
    The images were caught by cameras on the bridge on December 18, the day after Miss Yeates, 25, vanished. It is understood that Avon and Somerset Police have had the footage for three weeks.

    Detectives interviewed the owner of the car earlier this month but eliminated him at that stage.

    A source close to the investigation told The Mail on Sunday: ‘The investigation changed dramatically three weeks ago after this new CCTV footage came to light.
    ‘The discovery of this car driving over the bridge shifted the case’s dynamics.

    'Before this breakthrough the investigation was close to hitting a brick wall. They had interviewed Miss Yeates’s landlord but nothing materialised from it and there was no concrete evidence linking him in any way to the murder.
    ‘It appears he had brought himself under suspicion by making a series of comments which now appear to be irrelevant and innocuous. There was no case against him.’


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rt-Monday.html
    an excellent summary, Columbo.
    Thank you very much indeed.
    Still think you are/have been in the force....?

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  4. #203
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    So ... the silver vehicle parked in front of the house with the tools in the front seat?

    That's not VT.

  5. #204
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    what were the colors of the other residents' cars on Canynge Rd?
    Sorry if this has been repeated for the umpteenth time

    Was this CCTV footage from the neighbor's house near by that came to light later? The retired Mathematician?

    I wonder why nothing further was revealed about the mystery man seen running accross Failand rd from the direction of the murder site Christmas Eve night...... around 6pm

  6. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by bees View Post
    I can understand that VT's family might wish to send a sympathetic message to JY's parents because they are just like the rest of us. They are shocked and horrified at the murder of a vibrant, accomplished young woman whose potential has been destroyed. However, I know that tabloid newspapers often twist and sensationalise people's words and actions so I doubt they will do anything insensitive.

    As for the funeral, my heart goes out to them. As the mother of a young woman myself, I empathise but as JY's father said a few weeks ago, you can't really know what it's like until you experience it yourself. I also understand his phrase "our lives are over now" because I'm sure that's how I'd feel if one of my children were murdered.

    I do hope that the media will stay away and in particular I hope they will stay away from GR. That young man has suffered enough and the vicious, ignorant rumours about him shouldn't be fed by further exposure.
    Bees, I feel the same, having a young son. If anything happened to him, my life would be over. I also have young nieces living alone, and that's why I'm so interested in finding out what happened to poor JY. Perhaps we'll all learn something that will enable us to help our loved ones stay safe (or safer).

  7. #206
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    Officers spoke to the couple in the early stages of the inquiry but ruled out Tabak as a suspect. They have taken a detailed statement from both him and Tanja about his movements after December 17 when Jo was last seen alive after a night out.
    Detectives interviewed the owner of the car earlier this month but eliminated him at that stage.
    Could this mean that at the time they interviewed the owner of the car TM, they eliminated him, VT( now the alleged killer) at that stage.

    Could it be that it was her car ( if she has one) that was caught on CCTV crossing the bridge ?

  8. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiterum View Post
    Could this mean that at the time they interviewed the owner of the car TM, they eliminated him, VT( now the alleged killer) at that stage.

    Could it be that it was her car ( if she has one) that was caught on CCTV crossing the bridge ?
    I assume that with the media having been told that they couldnt mention certain people that the reports where referring to someone they had already interviewed and whose car they had already searched

    the owner is referred to as 'him' - this would rule out TM

    VT apparently does not own a car - this would rule out VT as 'him'

    as posted earlier a silver coloured saloon was seen outside 44 in the early hours

    the description of it blocking the road can only be achieved if it was in a position outside the driveway of 44 Canynge going North

    any other position would easily allow traffic to pass it as the road widens fron that point

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  10. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiterum View Post
    Could this mean that at the time they interviewed the owner of the car TM, they eliminated him, VT( now the alleged killer) at that stage.

    Could it be that it was her car ( if she has one) that was caught on CCTV crossing the bridge ?
    This is interesting. If TM was at her work party on 17th did she leave the car (if she had one) at home so VT could collect her later that evening or the next day.

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  12. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
    This is interesting. If TM was at her work party on 17th did she leave the car (if she had one) at home so VT could collect her later that evening or the next day.
    I believe this to be doubtful

    TM works in Malmesbury and she would need to get there by car ...if she has one ....

    depending on where the party was she would presumably either

    have stayed over at friends and driven back the next day

    or got a taxi back to Bristol and then one back to wherever she left the car

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  14. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
    This is interesting. If TM was at her work party on 17th did she leave the car (if she had one) at home so VT could collect her later that evening or the next day.

    Good one Robin Hood, we can maybe add that one to make two

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  16. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colombo View Post

    the owner is referred to as 'him' - this would rule out TM

    VT apparently does not own a car - this would rule out VT as 'him'
    Yes Colombo but my point was that they interviewed TM and VT as a couple.
    She being the owner of the car and him VT being the one eliminated at that stage.

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  18. #212
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    although we do not know what evidence the police have in terms of forensics and cctv

    I believe that in the absence of a confession and / or to a plea of diminished responsibilty

    the defence will attempt to show

    VT arrived home on a bike at 7pm and due to the conversation reported was not the only person to know that GR had gone away for the weekend

    VT is not the only person in the building not to have a firm alibi that evening

    VT if at home til 9 pm would have been unaware of Jo's arrival time at the flat until she actually arrived and even if he knew that she was out for the evening he would not know of her plans

    VT if out of the house from after 7pm til later has evidence to point to his movements and that these show he did not meet or see Jo on her journey home

    VT was out of his flat at times that would allow evidence to be planted by someone with access

    VT was not the only person in the building or neighbouring buildings not to hear any screams at 9 pm or 12 midnight

    VT having been in the US for 6 weeks of the 10 weeks that Jo had lived in the flat would have had very few opportunities to meet her at the flat

    VT did not have direct access to her flat

    VT did not have direct access to a car on the 17th / 18th - 9pm - 10am

    VT if able to access a car owned by another person in the house was not the only person able to do so

    VT does have a firm alibi from 18th - 25th - ...in that ..what time TM arrived home on the 18th and what times and dates they travelled from then to the 24th /25th from when they are believed to be in Cambridge

    VT has valid explanations of any forensics of him being in her flat or Jo being in his flat

    VT has valid explanations of any forensics of him being on her body or clothing

    VT if having gained access to a vehicle had a valid explanation for crossing the bridge at the time sighted by the cctv

    VT had co operated with all police requests and had returned to the UK

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  20. #213
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    There was a Dyson end of year party held at an air hangar in Wiltshire

    http://www.facebook.com/#!/album.php...d=168625703208

    I have no idea of the date, whether that's the same thing as a Christmas party and if TM was in attendance.

    I live just over 12 miles from Malmesbury & would assume the hangar is likely to have been at Kemble Airfield(now called Cotswold Airport) though it counts as being in Gloucs(just). There is an event management company based on the airfield site called Fosse ?Events who organise for film crews/events to take place at the airfield & who could have conceivably set up the Metropolis used by Dyson.

    There are a lot of employees from Bath & Bristol who car share to Dyson so it's conceivable that TM got a lift to work on the 17th.

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  22. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    So ... the silver vehicle parked in front of the house with the tools in the front seat?

    That's not VT.
    It could have been something to do with the building works going on at No.42 although I can't help reflecting that the owner of that property is a mechanical engineer (but he was investigated by LE, of course).

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  24. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colombo View Post
    I believe this to be doubtful

    TM works in Malmesbury and she would need to get there by car ...if she has one ....
    Not necessarily. There's a good train service between Bristol and Chippenham (with return services running until the early hours). The latter is only 10 miles from Malmesbury, which could be done by taxi or by a work colleague who lives around Chippenham.

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  26. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiterum View Post
    Yes Colombo but my point was that they interviewed TM and VT as a couple.
    She being the owner of the car and him VT being the one eliminated at that stage.
    yes but they as a couple may own / drive a car but the keeper is who is on the DLVA document and that in the case reported by the media is reported as a 'him'

    therefore unless VT is actually the keeper then it can be assumed its not their car that the report is about

    I believe the report is a way that the media found to express what they had discovered without naming a certain indivudual they had been told was off limits by the Attorney General and the police

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  28. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by veggiefan View Post
    Not necessarily. There's a good train service between Bristol and Chippenham (with return services running until the early hours). The latter is only 10 miles from Malmesbury, which could be done by taxi or by a work colleague who lives around Chippenham.
    yes all possible

    but probable?

    if TM didn't want to take the car if she has one and leave it then why not just ask VT to drive her to work and let him proceed from there to Bath

    In general people try to do the easiest and most efficient method to get about their daily business

    if this was a planned party it would be far more likely that she would either

    stay with friends locally
    hire a minibus to do a pick up and drop off
    get a taxi both ways

    in addition

    she's a woman and would probably want to change into party gear rather than wear her work clothes

    lets remember they aren't exactly short of a few quid with their respective jobs

  29. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by veggiefan View Post
    It could have been something to do with the building works going on at No.42 although I can't help reflecting that the owner of that property is a mechanical engineer (but he was investigated by LE, of course).
    yes again possible but probable?

    what builder is working at 12 - 4 am in a building such as 42 where the 2 occupants are reported to have stated they were in residence and asleep?

    and the silver saloon can only have blocked the street from the driveway of 44 onwards to the north

    if the car was near to 42 it is impossible that the road would be blocked by a saloon ..as it is far too wide at that point

  30. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colombo View Post
    yes again possible but probable?

    what builder is working at 12 - 4 am in a building such as 42 where the 2 occupants are reported to have stated they were in residence and asleep?

    and the silver saloon can only have blocked the street from the driveway of 44 onwards to the north

    if the car was near to 42 it is impossible that the road would be blocked by a saloon ..as it is far too wide at that point
    If this were the car in question would they not have been more discreet than to block the street for quite a while and risk someone informing the police?

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  32. #220
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    with all these questions it would be interesting to hear of what evidence Avon and Somerset police have against vt.

    let's hope they know what they are doing....

    also, whether or not they are trying to teach cj a lesson by not withdrawing the bail conditions from him....

    there do seem to be a fair number of questions against vt being the killer....

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  34. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiterum View Post
    If this were the car in question would they not have been more discreet than to block the street for quite a while and risk someone informing the police?
    agreed...

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  36. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colombo View Post
    hire a minibus to do a pick up and drop off
    If there are a number of employees in Bristol (and/or en route) I wouldn't be surprised if the company had organised something of the sort.

    Here's a daring suggestion though = maybe she doesn't drink alcohol, and simply drove herself home!

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  38. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiterum View Post
    If this were the car in question would they not have been more discreet than to block the street for quite a while and risk someone informing the police?
    this would asume that the person who has just killed someone and is now attempting to remove a body from the house into a car or is returning from doing so has the presence of mind to be discreet rather than act rather irrationally

    it was snowing, and was deep enough that the witnesses thought that the car was indeed stuck

    again the car was positioned so as to block the road

    the only place this could have occurred is outside the driveway of 44

    was the driver attempting to get onto the driveway and lost traction in the snow?

    had the driver gone inside the house to get something?


    regarding the car ...someone did inform the police

    there is no record of how long this car was there , only that it forced at least one car to drive onto the pavement in order to get past it

    and that the driver was nowhere to be seen with lightbulbs and tools on the seat

    it would appear that the car was moved

    by the time the police arrived to check it as they have no record of whose car it was

    and by the time the person who reported it checked at 10am

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  40. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherwell View Post
    If there are a number of employees in Bristol (and/or en route) I wouldn't be surprised if the company had organised something of the sort.

    Here's a daring suggestion though = maybe she doesn't drink alcohol, and simply drove herself home!
    good points

    either way she would be home by 3-4 latest

    would you kill and attempt disposal when you knew your partner could come home at any time if she had her own vehicle?

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  42. #225
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    Where did CJ tend to park his vehicles do we know? I understood there was a car park to the rear of 44, did he tend to park there or on the drive or on the street? I'd have thought anyone removing a body would favour parking at the rear rather than semi-blocking the road?

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