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  1. #1
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    School district allows religous daggers!!

    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...r-20110201-mr#

    CANTON TOWNSHIP, Mich. (WJBK) - A Detroit-area district says Sikh students are permitted to wear a small, religious dagger to school.

    The decision by the Plymouth-Canton Community Schools reverses a ban put in place in December after a fourth-grader at a Canton Township elementary school was found with a dull, 3- to 5-inch kirpan.

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  2. #2
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    The comments at the bottom of that article are especially good, many pointing out how students can't pray, wear religious t-shirts, etc, or how "under God" was taken out of the pledge of allegiance... and yet others are not only allowed to openly display their religion, but bring a weapon to school for it!

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    this is my son's school system!!! this happened before the Christmas break and a letter was sent home to all the parents...

    then just this past week we got an email saying this knife thing could be worn if it was covered in cloth and worn under the clothes...

    crazy!!!!!!!! my son could be expelled for bringing a plastic lego star wars gun to school!!!!

  4. #4
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    Time for the parents and taxpayers of this district to take over and remind these yayhoos who they work for.
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    Disclaimer: I have a JD, but I am not licensed to practice. Therefore, do not interpret anything contained in my posts as legal advice - they are my personal opinion only.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucid View Post
    The comments at the bottom of that article are especially good, many pointing out how students can't pray, wear religious t-shirts, etc, or how "under God" was taken out of the pledge of allegiance... and yet others are not only allowed to openly display their religion, but bring a weapon to school for it!
    Nobody has ever stopped anyone from praying, except that public school teachers can't lead students in public prayers because doing so provides government endorsement of religious beliefs.

    It isn't possible to keep a human being from praying in his own mind.

    And IMHO the ceremonial daggers should stay home.

  6. #6
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    See, I'm mixed on this one. I would NOT want a dagger in my child's school. But while looking up info on this, I found out that ALL BAPTIZED Sikhs must wear one at all times. I guess the only other way would be for this child to not go to school? I don't know. This one is tough.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpan
    The Kirpan (English pronunciation: /kɪərˈpɑːn/; Punjabi: ਕਿਰਪਾਨ kirpān) is a sword or dagger carried only by Baptized Sikhs. According to a mandatory religious commandment given by Guru Gobind Singh (the tenth Guru of Sikhism) at the Baisakhi Amrit Sanchar (a holy religious ceremony that formally baptizes a Sikh) in CE 1699, all baptised Sikhs (Khalsa) must wear a kirpan at all times[citation needed].

    Physically it is an instrument of "ahimsa" or non-violence. The principle of ahimsa is to actively prevent violence, not to simply stand by idly whilst violence is being done.

    United States of America
    There have been several court cases in states of the USA relating to the legality of wearing a kirpan in public places. Courts in New York and Ohio have ruled that banning the wearing of a kirpan is unconstitutional.[10] In New York City a compromise was reached with the Board of Education whereby the wearing of the knives was allowed so long as they were secured within the sheaths with adhesives and made impossible to draw. In recent years the Sikh practice of wearing a kirpan has caused problems for security personnel at airports and other checkpoints; security personnel may confiscate kirpans if they feel it is necessary, but are advised to treat them with respect.[11] Sikh leaders chose not to attend an April 17, 2008 interfaith meeting with Pope Benedict XVI at the Pope John Paul II Cultural Center in Washington, DC rather than remove the kirpan.[12]
    Last edited by KateB; 06-20-2015 at 10:01 AM. Reason: repair url tag.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    Nobody has ever stopped anyone from praying, except that public school teachers can't lead students in public prayers because doing so provides government endorsement of religious beliefs.

    It isn't possible to keep a human being from praying in his own mind.

    And IMHO the ceremonial daggers should stay home.
    Well, I apologize, I was simply mentioning what the comments on the article were saying.

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  8. #8
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    http://fateh.sikhnet.com/s/SikhIntro

    The Making of the Khalsa
    1699: Guru Gobind Rai (Singh) establishes the Khalsa

    Guru Gobind Singh was the last Guru of the Sikhs in human form. He created the Khalsa, a spiritual brotherhood and sisterhood devoted to purity of thought and action. He gave the Khalsa a distinctive external form to remind them of their commitment, and to help them maintain an elevated state of consciousness. Every Sikh baptized as Khalsa vows to wear the Five "K's"

    Kesh - uncut hair and beard, as given by God, to sustain him or her in higher consciousness; and a turban, the crown of spirituality.

    Kangha - a wooden comb to properly groom the hair as a symbol of cleanliness.

    Katchera - specially made cotton underwear as a reminder of the commitment to purity.

    Kara - a steel circle, worn on the wrist, signifying bondage to Truth and freedom from every other entanglement.

    Kirpan - the sword, with which the Khalsa is committed to righteously defend the fine line of the Truth.
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  9. #9
    Kimberlyd125's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    Nobody has ever stopped anyone from praying, except that public school teachers can't lead students in public prayers because doing so provides government endorsement of religious beliefs.

    It isn't possible to keep a human being from praying in his own mind.

    And IMHO the ceremonial daggers should stay home.
    From what I understand Nova, they are not ceremonial daggers. They are a MUST for all baptized Sikh. They have been a must since 1699.

    This is a tough one. Because, if they are a must and these people MUST wear them to comply with their religious beliefs, how do you make them take them off?

    But then again, if you allow these kirpans, then where is the line drawn???
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    This is a difficult issue, which has come up in a lot of districts. To say that this is a special privilege is not quite correct, since the kirpan is not a weapon as such but an insignia of devotion - as far as I know, Christians are not prohibited from wearing crosses, which are also insignia. And Nova is correct, the prohibition of religion in schools refers to the pushing of a faith by the teachers, not to the personal faith of the students, so as to avoid the appearance of the state sponsoring a particular church. I wouldn't compare something as significant as the kirpan to toy knives, etc. Also, it is my understanding that these daggers are not generally usable for violent purposes, as they are usually dull and pinioned into the sheath, and not much more dangerous than a pair of scissors. This is not a choice for baptized Sikhs, it is part of their identity. This is not a frivolous request on the part of this family, who might not have access to a quality Sikh parochial school.

    This would not bother me if this were my son's school. Actually, I think it is a sign that zero tolerance without context might be starting to loosen its weird grasp.

    Just my opinion.


  11. #11
    Kimberlyd125's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhyaDuck? View Post
    This is a difficult issue, which has come up in a lot of districts. To say that this is a special privilege is not quite correct, since the kirpan is not a weapon as such but an insignia of devotion - as far as I know, Christians are not prohibited from wearing crosses, which are also insignia. And Nova is correct, the prohibition of religion in schools refers to the pushing of a faith by the teachers, not to the personal faith of the students, so as to avoid the appearance of the state sponsoring a particular church. I wouldn't compare something as significant as the kirpan to toy knives, etc. Also, it is my understanding that these daggers are not generally usable for violent purposes, as they are usually dull and pinioned into the sheath, and not much more dangerous than a pair of scissors. This is not a choice for baptized Sikhs, it is part of their identity. This is not a frivolous request on the part of this family, who might not have access to a quality Sikh parochial school.

    This would not bother me if this were my son's school. Actually, I think it is a sign that zero tolerance without context might be starting to loosen its weird grasp.

    Just my opinion.
    ITA

    But, there are a lot lot of school systems that have banned religious clothes and symbols. Especially public schools. Seperation of church and state thingy.

    So, there is the problem.

    I don't believe a baptized Sikh should be made to remove his/her kirpan. I also believe children of other religions should be able to show their love and faith also.

    Also, from my "research" I have found where kirpans have been used in violent ways although they are not for that purpose. From what I understand, they are meant to protect yourself and others from violence.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberlyd125 View Post
    ITA

    But, there are a lot lot of school systems that have banned religious clothes and symbols. Especially public schools. Seperation of church and state thingy.

    So, there is the problem.

    I don't believe a baptized Sikh should be made to remove his/her kirpan. I also believe children of other religions should be able to show their love and faith also.

    Also, from my "research" I have found where kirpans have been used in violent ways although they are not for that purpose. From what I understand, they are meant to protect yourself and others from violence.
    Yes, it can be an issue, re: usability. Orthodox Sikhs claim the dagger must be usable in order to keep with the tenants of the faith. Others compromise by making the dagger not sharp (which is fairly common, I think), and others pinion it in its sheath. Still others allow for small gold dagger pendants as a symbolic presence (though this would not usually be acceptable at all to Orthodox Sikhs).

    Generally, conditions are negotiated between the Sikh community and the school board, and safety precautions are made. In Quebec, for instance, kirpans must be worn in a hard sheath that no other student can access (to prevent another student using the kirpan) under the student's clothes, and it must be secured by a heavy fabric cover. I believe this was upheld by the Supreme Court of Canada in 2006.

  13. #13
    Kimberlyd125's Avatar
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    Yeah I saw that about the 2006 ruling in Canada.

    IMO it's a tough call to make.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberlyd125 View Post

    Ewww!

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