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Thread: NE - Omaha Double Murder #3 - *Arrest Made*

  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snick1946 View Post
    YD, I agree. I have come to terms with this case going unsolved. For the life of me, I will never understand why OPD handled it as they did at the outset. What still unnerves me is their failure to solicit AMW for help when it could have done the most good, during the period of months following these killings. I believe that the then police chief had a lot to do with this decision. I was told that he chose not to involve AMW because 'they profit from crime."
    How noble. He has now moved on to another job in Texas while pulling a high five figure pension from the Omaha job. Apparently Mr Bushke has no problems with profiting from police work.
    I continue to think OPD was intimidated by a high profile killing that involved a family associated with CU. Not alleging any coverup here, but rather an overly cautious approach that cost time and maybe a chance to solve the case.
    About the AMW thing, OPD probably didn't reach out to AMW bc they wanted to keep the search and the tips that came in on a local scale. To reach out to AMW right away would open the investigation to a much larger scale and as well as tips from all around the country. Remember, they do have to check up on all the tips and "leads" that come in.
    Also, its very far fetched to think that a police department would be intimidated "by a high profile killing...associated with CU". Think about it. Police do their job regardless of "association", give them some credit.

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  3. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by allthatjazz View Post
    About the AMW thing, OPD probably didn't reach out to AMW bc they wanted to keep the search and the tips that came in on a local scale. To reach out to AMW right away would open the investigation to a much larger scale and as well as tips from all around the country. Remember, they do have to check up on all the tips and "leads" that come in.
    Also, its very far fetched to think that a police department would be intimidated "by a high profile killing...associated with CU". Think about it. Police do their job regardless of "association", give them some credit.
    I'd like to think you are right, however I wonder if you live in Omaha? I don't claim to have inside info, but a lot of us here sense something was not right about how this was handled.
    'Never stop fighting..never give up'

    Kevin Kostner as Eliott Ness in 'The Untouchables'

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    I feel like there is some underlying reason that this case has been kept so quiet. The news has been so scant on these brutal killings that happened in broad daylight in a very nice residential area of Omaha. Not even a mention of a suspect in over three years.
    YellowDog

    These are my opinions only and should not be misconstrued as factual.


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  6. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by YellowDog View Post
    I feel like there is some underlying reason that this case has been kept so quiet. The news has been so scant on these brutal killings that happened in broad daylight in a very nice residential area of Omaha. Not even a mention of a suspect in over three years.
    There simply has to be some reason. From the first few days or so, I and others felt something very off about this case. The story was minimized and after a week or so it was no longer much in the news. OPD was busy telling everyone that there was 'no serial killer.' Why?? That it was an 'isolated event.'
    I have just about concluded OPD has known from a very early point perhaps not who did it, but why it was done and have realized that catching the perp will be very difficult.
    I keep wondering about the 'list of five names' that Dr Hunter was shown by Lt. Kagner a few months ago. None of them were recognized, apparently. What was that about? If former students, he'd surely have recognized them.
    I know that interest has fallen off in this thread, especially after the thing with MB seemingly fizzled. I may not post as frequently but I do have a gut feeling that it is important we keep this active. So long as it is active we keep some interest alive. I appreciate all of you more than I can say.
    'Never stop fighting..never give up'

    Kevin Kostner as Eliott Ness in 'The Untouchables'

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  8. #230
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    Thank YOU Snick, YellowDog and waltzingmatilda for your efforts to keep this puzzling case on our minds. You all have done a service to us and the public by your dogged determination to uncover the truth behind this terrible crime. I applaud you all.

    Snick, your comment:
    I have just about concluded OPD has known from a very early point perhaps not who did it, but why it was done and have realized that catching the perp will be very difficult.
    ...has me thinking about what sort of scenario would fit that description. In cases where there is not resolution and not much in the way of communication from LE, my mind often wonders if there are bigger issues than just the crime that is known to us. I have that same nagging thought about Kyron and Holly Bobo. The only thing that makes sense to me is that the murders (and in the other 2 cases, disappearances) are but one part of a much bigger or widespread investigation of some sort that threatens more than just the victims we see. I have no idea what that could be, but it's all I can come up with to explain why there is not resolution after all this time.
    One person can make a difference, and everyone should try.
    John F. Kennedy

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  10. #231
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    I agree with you CocoChanel. And thank you very much for the kind words.

    It's good seeing that the interest is still percolating along in this case. I haven't had much to add here lately as my time has been limited due to projects I am working on.
    But I can never just let this case go by the wayside. It bothers me too much and I continue to hope that someday justice is served for Tom and Shirley.

    BTW, Hi everybody! Hope you are all having a good summer and are staying cool in this dreaded heat!

    wm
    ...and be sure your sin will find you out.

    Numbers,32:23

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  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by CocoChanel View Post
    Thank YOU Snick, YellowDog and waltzingmatilda for your efforts to keep this puzzling case on our minds. You all have done a service to us and the public by your dogged determination to uncover the truth behind this terrible crime. I applaud you all.

    Snick, your comment:


    ...has me thinking about what sort of scenario would fit that description. In cases where there is not resolution and not much in the way of communication from LE, my mind often wonders if there are bigger issues than just the crime that is known to us. I have that same nagging thought about Kyron and Holly Bobo. The only thing that makes sense to me is that the murders (and in the other 2 cases, disappearances) are but one part of a much bigger or widespread investigation of some sort that threatens more than just the victims we see. I have no idea what that could be, but it's all I can come up with to explain why there is not resolution after all this time.
    I think it was in thread #1 that I mentioned the possibility that there could be Homeland Security issues involved with these murders. Not as farfetched as it may sound; we don't know what may have been going on at CU that Tom's father could have been involved in. Some sort of secret research perhaps? For some time I thought maybe if drug dealing was connected and perhaps LE was waiting for the conclusion of another investighation before moving in on this one.
    So much time has elapsed that I think the second possibility doesn't fly. I also wonder if the FBI knows this case is connected to other killings and LE feels keeping this one at a low profile best serves the ends of justice.
    I sometimes also wonder how deeply staff at CU were vetted in this thing. By that I mean, was everyone connected even remotely with the Pathology lab looked at and cleared? I remember the murder at Yale last year, that was an obsessed lab assistant with an agenda re animal rights.
    So many things that puzzle in this case. I sometimes wish someone would write a book about this crime, there sure is ample material for one.
    'Never stop fighting..never give up'

    Kevin Kostner as Eliott Ness in 'The Untouchables'

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  14. #233
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    Time can sometimes be the key. Waiting for a suspect to make a mistake if there's not enough physical evidence might be the only thing that can be done right now. I don't believe there's a lack of interest or attention to this case, but I can't prove it except by
    the faithful observers of this thread. I'd be willing to bet there are many eyes watching things.

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  16. #234
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    I think the reason a knife or knives was used in these killings was for the plain and simple reason that gun shots would call immediate attention to the neighbors. With no sound of shots, the killer/killers could just simply walk away from the scene and be long gone before the murders were discovered.
    YellowDog

    These are my opinions only and should not be misconstrued as factual.


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  18. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by YellowDog View Post
    I think the reason a knife or knives was used in these killings was for the plain and simple reason that gun shots would call immediate attention to the neighbors. With no sound of shots, the killer/killers could just simply walk away from the scene and be long gone before the murders were discovered.
    Some of the analysis of this crime has focused on the use of knives as indicating a personal anger against the victims, or at least one of them. I also wonder if it just wasn't a practical matter. I imagine you can silence someone pretty damn fast by stabbing in the neck.
    This would suggest to me a professional hit person ar possibly a semi professional. Maybe someone who'd been in the military and had commando training. A lot of what I have read about hired killers indicates that many if not most will NOT accept a job to kill a child. It is seen as dishonorable.
    'Never stop fighting..never give up'

    Kevin Kostner as Eliott Ness in 'The Untouchables'

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  20. #236
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    I was wondering if anyone would be willing to restate the facts about this case that we know to be true, or that have been released to the public? I think it would be helpful for those who have been following this case and for any new followers. This case has been under investigation and sometimes it's useful to clear the slate and have a fresh mindset, especially since there are multiple threads. I summary of the case would be much appreciated.

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  22. #237
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    I'll see what I can do in the next few days allthatjazz. I'll need to find links and such

    Welcome to WS!!!

    wm
    ...and be sure your sin will find you out.

    Numbers,32:23

  23. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by allthatjazz View Post
    I was wondering if anyone would be willing to restate the facts about this case that we know to be true, or that have been released to the public? I think it would be helpful for those who have been following this case and for any new followers. This case has been under investigation and sometimes it's useful to clear the slate and have a fresh mindset, especially since there are multiple threads. I summary of the case would be much appreciated.
    Since theories on what happend that day are all speculations and there have been very few facts released, you would probably be better off to go back and read the first thread on the case. Many of the links are no longer active.
    YellowDog

    These are my opinions only and should not be misconstrued as factual.


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  25. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by YellowDog View Post
    Since theories on what happend that day are all speculations and there have been very few facts released, you would probably be better off to go back and read the first thread on the case. Many of the links are no longer active.
    Unfortunately the police haven't said enough to give us a clear list of actual Facts. What we have are statements from the police in the press which admittedly don't say much. There was one article near the one or two year anniversary of the murder that had a pretty in depth interview with Dr. Hunter and some details of the crime scene that were interesting. Not sure if the police are a reliable source of "facts", but it's the best thing we have. This was in the World Herald. I'm sure Snick probably has a copy.

    • We know Tom and Shirlee were both killed by knife wounds to the neck.
    • We know they both died in close succession (we don't know who first).
    • We know that Dr. Hunter came home from work to find them.
    • We know that the FBI did profiling early on.
    • We know that the police did at least basic analysis of computers from the home.
    • We know both families were looked at pretty hard.
    • We know that the police extensively looked into CU connections (including, but probably not limited to MB), presumably anyone with a grudge against CU or Dr. Hunter.
    • We know that no one has been named a suspect or arrested in connection.
    • We know that MB was not named a suspect or person of interest.
    • We know Tom came home around, if slightly later than his normal time.
    • We know Shirlee had money in her purse, that was left on the kitchen table.
    • We know Tom had at least started to play a video game.
    • We know Shirlee's family put up part of a reward, anonymous sources (family or otherwise) put up the rest.

    • We know that OPD put a stopper on an Americas Most Wanted episode.
    • In March, OPD said they would consider sharing more notes on the case with the FBI in hopes of further input. (http://www.omaha.com/article/20110313/NEWS97/703139919)
    • We can probably assume that if there was any physical evidence left at the crime scene, that it did not match anyone on record.
    • I also believe it was mentioned in one of the interviews that it was Shirlee's regular cleaning day, though Dr. Hunter was quoted as saying he was surprised to see her car there that late, which aroused his suspicion that something was wrong.

    I'm probably forgetting some basic facts. It's hard to believe this has been going on since March of 08 and there has been such little progress. We've done this a couple times now. I know it's helpful for new visitors.

    Thanks Snick, WM and everyone else -- especially those who were active very early on -- for keeping the thread alive. I know my interest hasn't dropped off. I keep checking back regularly for new snippets. Of course nothing on the TV at all lately.

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  27. #240
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    Omaha, that was good synopsis. Thanks.
    YellowDog

    These are my opinions only and should not be misconstrued as factual.


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  29. #241
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    Omaha--good job! I think the motive was tied to the medical school.
    National Match Day was coming up and the timing is too much of a coincidence. I think they need to look at those who wanted in the residency programs but didn't get in.

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  31. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyBelle View Post
    Omaha--good job! I think the motive was tied to the medical school.
    National Match Day was coming up and the timing is too much of a coincidence. I think they need to look at those who wanted in the residency programs but didn't get in.
    I think this came up before in discussion.

    My feeling is that it could have been done as a message to Dr. Hunter to influence a selection. But kill his son? Maybe I'm thinking too logically, but if that was the motivation, killing his son seems a little offbase. Maybe AFTER National Match Day and NOT being selected. Could have been an attempted kidnapping though... I don't know enough about the pressures, but in one of the threads someone with more knowledge discussed it.
    Last edited by omaha; 08-09-2011 at 10:30 AM.

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  33. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by omaha View Post
    I think this came up before in discussion.

    My feeling is that it could have been done as a message to Dr. Hunter to influence a selection. But kill his son? Maybe I'm thinking too logically, but if that was the motivation, killing his son seems a little offbase. Maybe AFTER National Match Day and NOT being selected. Could have been an attempted kidnapping though... I don't know enough about the pressures, but in one of the threads someone with more knowledge discussed it.
    Selections for Match were likely completed by the day of the murders, they just were not officially announced until the 3rd Thursday. Some Creighton med students are from out of state and have families. I do hope they investigated that angle. Have a good day!

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  35. #244
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    Here is a link to the first thread. The Omaha World Herald links no longer work but Snick was nice enough to transcribe the (first?) OWH article in post #9.

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67963"]Omaha double murder - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


    Here is a link with the composite sketch of the poi.

    http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/17003921.html

    This should help our newest sleuths in catching up. There are also links to threads one and two on the first page of this thread.

    wm
    Last edited by waltzingmatilda; 08-10-2011 at 08:37 AM. Reason: spacing
    ...and be sure your sin will find you out.

    Numbers,32:23

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  37. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyBelle View Post
    Selections for Match were likely completed by the day of the murders, they just were not officially announced until the 3rd Thursday. Some Creighton med students are from out of state and have families. I do hope they investigated that angle. Have a good day!
    My thinking has always been that, if this was a motive, the killer was not someone who failed to make the cut THAT year. It could likely have been someone who failed to get into residency sometime in the past, perhaps several years ago. This festered while they blamed the Hunters or CU for their perceived failure in life.
    From what I know, the murders showed evidence of medical skill. The knives were left in their throats to minimize bleeding (less chance of leaving the house covered in blood). Of course this may also be a sign of a professional hit job.
    If you think about it; the son of the then head of a Pathology department is murdered in his home, the killer entering just after he came home from school, the scene is as one OPD detective said, "almost pristine." To me that suggests a strong possibility of a connection with someone in the Doctrs' past, perhaps a medical or CU connection. It does NOT suggest the act of a prowler caught in the act or of a deranged psycho. This guy was good; very good.
    'Never stop fighting..never give up'

    Kevin Kostner as Eliott Ness in 'The Untouchables'

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  39. #246
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    Has it ever been established whether these were kitchen knives, hunting knives, surgical knives, switchblade knives or pocket knives? That might give a good clue as to what type of person committed these murders.

    I believe it was someone very powerful who took both victims by surprise.
    YellowDog

    These are my opinions only and should not be misconstrued as factual.


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  41. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snick1946 View Post
    My thinking has always been that, if this was a motive, the killer was not someone who failed to make the cut THAT year. It could likely have been someone who failed to get into residency sometime in the past, perhaps several years ago. This festered while they blamed the Hunters or CU for their perceived failure in life.
    From what I know, the murders showed evidence of medical skill. The knives were left in their throats to minimize bleeding (less chance of leaving the house covered in blood). Of course this may also be a sign of a professional hit job.
    If you think about it; the son of the then head of a Pathology department is murdered in his home, the killer entering just after he came home from school, the scene is as one OPD detective said, "almost pristine." To me that suggests a strong possibility of a connection with someone in the Doctrs' past, perhaps a medical or CU connection. It does NOT suggest the act of a prowler caught in the act or of a deranged psycho. This guy was good; very good.
    Great thoughts and analysis Snick.

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  43. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by YellowDog View Post
    Has it ever been established whether these were kitchen knives, hunting knives, surgical knives, switchblade knives or pocket knives? That might give a good clue as to what type of person committed these murders.

    I believe it was someone very powerful who took both victims by surprise.
    I'm not sure on this one. I know there have been rumors and we have speculated. But unfortunately I don't think we can say that we know this for a fact. Personally, I've heard from at offline rumors that are different from what was reported in the paper in that long article.

    I'm not sure it helps us with the identity of the suspect. But would be really interesting to know, as with the order of the murder -- which there has been speculation about as well.

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  45. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltzingmatilda View Post
    Here is a link to the first thread. The Omaha World Herald links no longer work but Snick was nice enough to transcribe the (first?) OWH article in post #9.

    Correction: It was post #6

    Omaha double murder - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


    Here is a link with the composite sketch of the poi.

    http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/17003921.html

    This should help our newest sleuths in catching up. There are also links to threads one and two on the first page of this thread.

    wm
    Correction above in RED!

    Thanks, wm
    ...and be sure your sin will find you out.

    Numbers,32:23

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  47. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snick1946 View Post
    My thinking has always been that, if this was a motive, the killer was not someone who failed to make the cut THAT year. It could likely have been someone who failed to get into residency sometime in the past, perhaps several years ago. This festered while they blamed the Hunters or CU for their perceived failure in life.
    From what I know, the murders showed evidence of medical skill. The knives were left in their throats to minimize bleeding (less chance of leaving the house covered in blood). Of course this may also be a sign of a professional hit job.
    If you think about it; the son of the then head of a Pathology department is murdered in his home, the killer entering just after he came home from school, the scene is as one OPD detective said, "almost pristine." To me that suggests a strong possibility of a connection with someone in the Doctrs' past, perhaps a medical or CU connection. It does NOT suggest the act of a prowler caught in the act or of a deranged psycho. This guy was good; very good.
    The reason I think it was someone who failed to match that year is because they would have matched at another state but that would have required a move of the entire family. Because a target was the Hunters' son, I think it was a either a disgruntled Creighton or UNMC medical student with a family. I was just thinking out loud. I bet they covered that angle years ago.

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