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Thread: Meredith Kercher murdered - Amanda Knox convicted, now appeals #6

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    Meredith Kercher murdered - Amanda Knox convicted, now appeals #6

    Please continue here. Please be mindful of TOS and don't let emotion get the better part of the discussion.


    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55843"]Thread 1[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92575"]Thread 2[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94005"]Thread 3[/ame]

    Thread 4 - On hold.

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125994"]Thread 5[/ame]


    Appeal is to be decided in March 2011.

    Last few posts from previous thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    Lifetime basically only shows two movies: in the more popular one, the plucky heroine has to fight off and eventually kill the man who betrayed her. The other movie shows a good girl who falls prey to drugs and a bad boyfriend and becomes a killer (and/or hooker).

    Guess which one the Amanda Knox movie will be?
    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    I think I fall into the same category as the people objecting to the film. It's been known for some time that the film was being made, but objections to it being shown have only recently come to light. Now that we've had a glimpse of what the film is like (through the trailer), it looks to be in poor taste.
    Last edited by Salem; 02-12-2011 at 03:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    There is no way to do a film such as this in good taste, imo. Unless maybe it is a documentary? Even then I would wonder.

    I think the best movie would be one from the minds of the posters here, who have dedicated so much time to the actual court documents, etc. and picked apart every little piece of evidence until it screamed.

    And still we have a difference of opinion. Amazing, isn't it? I find the whole thing very interesting, from the event itself, to how every one looks at it. And I really feel for Meredith's family here. No matter what happened, to have your daughter's last hour on earth portrayed in such a manner, for the world to see, had got to be a very sharp, painful stab in the heart.

    I don't think they should have been allowed to advertise the movie (unrealistic, I know, but still).

    Salem
    I had to bring this quote over ... because reading this made me start thinking about how a movie about a murder could be done more respectfully.

    Rather than show a violent attack, the scene could follow Meredith going home and show her settling in to study, cut to 1-3 figures entering the cottage and then silence ... with a photo tribute to Meredith and maybe some shots of her memorial.

    I'm not convinced that sex and violence were needed to draw an audience for this film ... too bad the producer didn't realize that.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg9eSyhgzBw[/ame]
    Last edited by otto; 02-07-2011 at 05:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    I had to bring this quote over ... because reading this made me start thinking about how a movie about a murder could be done more respectfully.

    Rather than show a violent attack, the scene could follow Meredith going home and show her settling in to study, cut to 1-3 figures entering the cottage and then silence ... with a photo tribute to Meredith and maybe some shots of her memorial.

    I'm not convinced that sex and violence were needed to draw an audience for this film ... too bad the producer didn't realize that.
    I want to be clear that while I am skeptical about this film, I by no means think we should discard the first amendment to ban it.

    otto, there is no evidence whatsoever that 3 figures entered the cottage together. Even if you believe the evidence shows 3 people (in addition to the victim) ended up there eventually, there's no evidence they arrived together.

    So even in one brief and tasteful example, we've already left the available evidence and departed for the land of fiction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    I want to be clear that while I am skeptical about this film, I by no means think we should discard the first amendment to ban it.

    otto, there is no evidence whatsoever that 3 figures entered the cottage together. Even if you believe the evidence shows 3 people (in addition to the victim) ended up there eventually, there's no evidence they arrived together.

    So even in one brief and tasteful example, we've already left the available evidence and departed for the land of fiction.
    I wrote 1-3, not 3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    I wrote 1-3, not 3.
    The principle is still the same. Sorry, I should have made it clear I wasn't objecting to your example, per se, just pointing out that any film made will require choices that tilt the narrative toward one conclusion or another.

    It is possible in theory to construct a film that is ultimately neutral, but very difficult to do in practice. And probably impossible with the budget and shooting schedule of a made-for-TV movie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    I wrote 1-3, not 3.
    The start of 1 - 3 still represents an issue

    On the record I will not partake in any movie discussion. I have no idea what the content is but I do know the aim of most movies

    I am actually saddened that MK's family has to go through this and I will simply not be a part of it

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    I did though come across this interview with Dr. Greg Hampikian


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vEFPZgW9HA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vEFPZgW9HA[/ame]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allusonz View Post
    I did though come across this interview with Dr. Greg Hampikian....
    What were you saying about how sometimes one thank-you just isn't enough?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    What were you saying about how sometimes one thank-you just isn't enough?
    Sorry by the time it was at the end i was laughing so hard at what they had done i had tears rolling down my face

    The interesting part is that it was the defense that requested it be taken apart not the experts as has been reported thus I am thinking the objections ....

    Nope those objections make no sense to me whatsoever

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allusonz View Post
    Sorry by the time it was at the end i was laughing so hard at what they had done i had tears rolling down my face

    The interesting part is that it was the defense that requested it be taken apart not the experts as has been reported thus I am thinking the objections ....

    Nope those objections make no sense to me whatsoever
    As I'm sure you know, a basic rule of direct and cross-examination is "never ask a question unless you already know the answer." The same principle applies here, I feel certain: the prosecution doesn't want any surprises and has no way of knowing what is inside that handle.

    That, of course, is no FAIR reason not to take the handle apart and retest, but I'm sure that is the prosecutor's motivation for objecting.

    (And given the way the evidence was handled in this case, that knife handle may well hold traces of MY DNA!)

    What is telling is the defense request. Obviously, AK and RS are telling their lawyers there is no way that knife was involved in the murder, because their lawyers aren't worried that pulling the handle apart will unearth a huge sample of MK's blood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    As I'm sure you know, a basic rule of direct and cross-examination is "never ask a question unless you already know the answer." The same principle applies here, I feel certain: the prosecution doesn't want any surprises and has no way of knowing what is inside that handle.
    That, of course, is no FAIR reason not to take the handle apart and retest, but I'm sure that is the prosecutor's motivation for objecting.

    (And given the way the evidence was handled in this case, that knife handle may well hold traces of MY DNA!)

    What is telling is the defense request. Obviously, AK and RS are telling their lawyers there is no way that knife was involved in the murder, because their lawyers aren't worried that pulling the handle apart will unearth a huge sample of MK's blood.
    BBM

    I have 2 schools of thought on this

    No one wants to be surprised during any trial that includes the defense/prosecution

    If there is indeed DNA in that handle they would be very hard pressed to not be able to say contamination

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    I want to be clear that while I am skeptical about this film, I by no means think we should discard the first amendment to ban it./
    I guess they could start creating bad press, full page ads or however it's done.. basically start lobbying hard against the movie in hopes of stirring up enough negative publicity that the sponsors back out of advertising.

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    I don't plan on watching the movie. TV movies are generally trashy and not well made to begin with. That being said, I'm sure at some point a "tasteful" version of the story could be made, but probably not until long after all the appeals are done and the maximum amount of information has been made available and some time has passed. IIRC, the Michael Winterbottom version is supposed to stay away from any depiction of the murder, barely focus on the Amanda character, but centralize more on a reporter covering the case.

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    Having a photo with the knife next to a ruler merely confirms my earlier conclusion: there's no way somebody chose to carry that knife out for the evening "just for fun."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    Having a photo with the knife next to a ruler merely confirms my earlier conclusion: there's no way somebody chose to carry that knife out for the evening "just for fun."
    The knife is still 12 inches in length, even when placed next to a centimeter ruler that is too short.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    The knife is still 12 inches in length, even when placed next to a centimeter ruler that is too short.
    From the length of the ruler i would gather that this had cm (metric) on one side and if you flip it has the inches on the other side. This a very common type of ruler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allusonz View Post
    From the length of the ruler i would gather that this had cm (metric) on one side and if you flip it has the inches on the other side. This a very common type of ruler
    It wouldn't matter how you flipped the ruler, the length of the knife has been officially measured to be 31 cm, or 12 inches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allusonz View Post
    From the length of the ruler i would gather that this had cm (metric) on one side and if you flip it has the inches on the other side. This a very common type of ruler
    Folks, folks, folks! I am an American, but old enough to have learned the metric system back when we were supposed to be converting.

    I swear I recognized the markings in the photo as centimeters and nothing about the photo changed my understanding of the knife's size (12").

    I merely meant that the photo dramatized my skepticism that AK or anyone else would carry such a knife out of RS' apartment as a plaything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    The knife is still 12 inches in length, even when placed next to a centimeter ruler that is too short.
    Sorry, I didn't mean the knife got longer, obviously. I just meant seeing it next to the ruler dramatized the knife's size.

    Most Americans own a 12" ruler, I suspect, and one can imagine carrying it out for the evening. Really inconvenient. Now imagine it had the weight of a steak knife...
    Last edited by Nova; 02-08-2011 at 02:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    Sorry, I didn't mean the knife got longer, obviously. I just meant seeing it next to the ruler dramatized the knife's size.

    Most Americans own a 12" ruler, I suspect, and one can imagine carrying it out for the evening. Really inconvenient. Now imagine it had the weight of a steak knife...
    A regular dinner knife is between 9 and 12 inches, depending on the style, just like the knife in question, and similar in length to the knife that was found on the ground outside of Filomina's bedroom. Regardless of how "big" or "heavy" someone may believe the knife to be, it does match one of the injuries to Meredith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    A regular dinner knife is between 9 and 12 inches, depending on the style, just like the knife in question, and similar in length to the knife that was found on the ground outside of Filomina's bedroom. Regardless of how "big" or "heavy" someone may believe the knife to be, it does match one of the injuries to Meredith.
    To say "it does match" is (unintentionally) misleading, otto. The most any expert could testify is that it might have made a particular wound. But even that much is controversial: some experts think it far more likely that wound was made by a smaller knife.

    But my point isn't whether that knife could have made one of the wounds, my point is that it is ridiculous to believe AK or RS was carrying that knife around town. Or that that knife was specially chosen to kill MK and was brought to the murder scene for that purpose.

    The court concluded the murder was not premeditated, so one has to believe AK or RS chose to carry that huge knife for "fun"? Preposterous.

    If you want to argue premeditation, then you have to explain why AK or RS chose that particular knife, and why they chose to carry any knife from RS' apartment rather than simply using one of the knives at AK/MK's house.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    The knife is still 12 inches in length, even when placed next to a centimeter ruler that is too short.
    <mod snip> Nobody has questioned the length of the knife.

    I went back to my original post: all I said was that seeing the knife next to a ruler confirmed my certainty that the knife is too big to make a convenient toy. I said nothing to indicate I had confused centimeters with inches, nor did Allusonz.

    12" is a good sized knife, several inches larger than the steak knives we use at my house. Now that means nothing in itself; but when the prosecution claims the knife was taken from RS' apartment and used to murder MK, one has to wonder why?

    Unless and until somebody proves there was a shortage of knives at AK/MK's cottage, I don't believe AK or RS took that knife over there.
    Last edited by believe09; 02-08-2011 at 05:56 PM. Reason: please dont call out other posters

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    I have no doubt the movie will be a work of creative fiction, taken from the tabloids first & foremost, made to hint at salacious (and likely false) hypothesis, treating neither victim, MK, nor suspects/defendants with anything akin to the plain truth.

    And really, we've had enough rumors to create a whole 'nother set of characters and a crime that veer far from what actually happened.

    Unfortunately people believe whatever rumor-du-jour comes across their computer or newspaper and align their beliefs with the lowest common denominator. It's easy to just accept what the media selects as 'truth,' I suppose.

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    Here we go ... the knife, in a box, with a 12 inch ruler that measures both inches and centimeters.


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    I read Amanda and her attorneys are going to sue Lifetime if they don't cancel the movie/commercials and internet ads. They also sent letters to Google and you-tube asking them to pull the ads.

    What I posted above, the possibility of stirring up negative publicity in hopes of advertisers pulling out, i was actually thinking along the lines of how people campaigned against Fox over G. Beck, isn't this sort of what happened?

    and Didn't Obama sign a new law protecting US citizens right to free speech abroad. In other words, doesn't the First Amendment take priority (over foreign laws) and protect a US defendant from a foreign lawsuit regarding libel issues ... how exactly does this law work?

    are the attorneys trying to stall the movie from airing or do they have actual grounds for a lawsuit? and Wasn't she given an extra year plus a fine for defamation - does this new law protect her in any way and does it prevent her from filing defamation suits in the future?


    I apologize for all the ques. - tia

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