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Thread: Blonde, Sad-Faced Girl

  1. #1
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    Blonde, Sad-Faced Girl

    Didn't see a thread for this photo. More for completeness than because I see anything useful, here goes.

    http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress...0/03/00941.jpg

    I can't tell if the cloth in the background is the same blue one that shows in some other pictures. (In particular, maybe the Short-Haired Brunette Against Blue Background.) Perhaps the color comes from the lighting.

    Besides the backdrop and a shelf behind her, there's a once-commonplace black rotary-dial phone. Those were getting old-fashioned by the end of the 70's, as I recall. I think the time is early-mid decade for that reason only.

    Can't decide if she looks drugged, but she sure looks unhappy. I worry for her. On the other hand, she seems uninjured. There's not much to go on. She's not in any other of the released photos that I can see.

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  3. #2
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    Red and Gold?

    On a closer look, maybe she does have something to be upset about.


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    To me, she looks more bored or emotionally neutral than anything.
    If coincidence never happened, there wouldn't be a word for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WildHuncher View Post
    Didn't see a thread for this photo. More for completeness than because I see anything useful, here goes.

    http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress...0/03/00941.jpg

    I can't tell if the cloth in the background is the same blue one that shows in some other pictures. (In particular, maybe the Short-Haired Brunette Against Blue Background.) Perhaps the color comes from the lighting.

    Besides the backdrop and a shelf behind her, there's a once-commonplace black rotary-dial phone. Those were getting old-fashioned by the end of the 70's, as I recall. I think the time is early-mid decade for that reason only.

    Can't decide if she looks drugged, but she sure looks unhappy. I worry for her. On the other hand, she seems uninjured. There's not much to go on. She's not in any other of the released photos that I can see.
    I've seen this person in the photos. If you want to see the complete set of the photos, you should go to the Facebook page for Alcala. Lots of info there.
    Please consider my comments as my opinion. I don't ask that you agree with me and you are free to scroll past my post. Thanks for respecting my opinion as much as I respect yours.

    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    Please help identify the unidentified photos found in the storage locker of serial killer, Rodney Alcala.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Help-F...61183953929612

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    We have discussed this girl on another thread. I commented that there is a bookcase in the background that we see in another picture and I think might represent a third apartment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by norest4thewicked View Post
    I've seen this person in the photos. If you want to see the complete set of the photos, you should go to the Facebook page for Alcala. Lots of info there.
    This one?

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104897"]Profile Girl against Green wall - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


    I missed it before but they do look very similar.

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  13. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildHuncher View Post
    This one?

    Profile Girl against Green wall - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


    I missed it before but they do look very similar.
    No...I don't believe they are the same. They do look similar though. I just meant that I'd seen the girl with the blue background before.
    Please consider my comments as my opinion. I don't ask that you agree with me and you are free to scroll past my post. Thanks for respecting my opinion as much as I respect yours.

    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    Please help identify the unidentified photos found in the storage locker of serial killer, Rodney Alcala.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Help-F...61183953929612

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    She seems like she's uncomfortable,and getting impatient. Like when someone is taking way too long to take a picture and you are sucking in your breath, nostril wide, want to scream but putting on a tiny fake smile, and keeping composure.

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  17. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbird View Post
    We have discussed this girl on another thread. I commented that there is a bookcase in the background that we see in another picture and I think might represent a third apartment.
    Found it. The Blonde in Two - Piece Swimsuit thread. I agree it's not the same shelf as this picture. You can't tell if it's the same apartment or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WildHuncher View Post
    On a closer look, maybe she does have something to be upset about.

    Definately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WildHuncher View Post
    On a closer look, maybe she does have something to be upset about.

    If you look at the full picture, the location of this discoloring is too low to be where a person would be strangled. Or, did you have something else in mind about the dark ring under the necklace?

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  23. #12
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    An aside: I don't consider this girl to be even remotely blonde. Reddish-brown, I'd call it, or maybe just plain brown, depending. I wonder how often descriptions of missing persons have such discrepancies that were in the eye of the beholder?
    Last edited by carbuff; 02-17-2011 at 05:38 PM.
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

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  25. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misfitdolly;
    If you look at the full picture, the location of this discoloring is too low to be where a person would be strangled. Or, did you have something else in mind about the dark ring under the necklace?
    No, that was it. I think it's a choke mark and not a discoloration from cheap metal because it's red, not green.

    Throwing a garotte Thuggee-style around someone's neck would probably result in a higher choke mark. However, if you suddenly tighten something like a necklace which is already draped in place low down it may not slip up much because the tightening motion stops it. The ligature digs in before it can go up. (I was playing around on my own neck earlier because I wondered about the same thing.)

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  27. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbuff View Post
    An aside: I don't consider this girl to be even remotely blonde. Reddish-brown, I'd call it, or maybe just plain brown, depending. I wonder how often descriptions of missing persons have such discrepancies that were in the eye of the beholder?
    I can believe it. My color vision stinks.

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  29. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildHuncher View Post
    No, that was it. I think it's a choke mark and not a discoloration from cheap metal because it's red, not green.

    Throwing a garotte Thuggee-style around someone's neck would probably result in a higher choke mark. However, if you suddenly tighten something like a necklace which is already draped in place low down it may not slip up much because the tightening motion stops it. The ligature digs in before it can go up. (I was playing around on my own neck earlier because I wondered about the same thing.)

    This girl seems to be bruised on her shoulder as well. I thought.

    Agree with what you found on the neck for sure.

    I wonder if that necklace was in the photos of the jewelry collection they put out? I hadn't looked. I vaguely recall saying I had that necklace with the little like pearl beads on it so it may be.

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  31. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filly View Post
    This girl seems to be bruised on her shoulder as well. I thought.

    Agree with what you found on the neck for sure.

    I wonder if that necklace was in the photos of the jewelry collection they put out? I hadn't looked. I vaguely recall saying I had that necklace with the little like pearl beads on it so it may be.
    I think I'm looking at what you mean on her shoulder but I can't tell between bruise or shadow.

    I'm going to find the pictures of the jewelry stash. It's worth checking.

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  33. #17
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    The only picture I can find on the web, the one from People Magazine, shows no necklaces at all.

    http://www.people.com/people/archive...359688,00.html

    Edit: You can use the "Scroll for Full Issue" feature to see the whole article, clicking on each page to enlarge as needed.

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    Tried to post this last night and my Internet died right in the middle. Wind storms. Checking this morning, I see it never arrived.

    This girl has one red eye. Injury (some kind of hemorrhaging due to choking?) or bad makeup?


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  36. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by WildHuncher View Post
    Tried to post this last night and my Internet died right in the middle. Wind storms. Checking this morning, I see it never arrived.

    This girl has one red eye. Injury (some kind of hemorrhaging due to choking?) or bad makeup?

    Or....photo artifacts...or blemishes...or from pretty much anything...
    Please consider my comments as my opinion. I don't ask that you agree with me and you are free to scroll past my post. Thanks for respecting my opinion as much as I respect yours.

    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    Please help identify the unidentified photos found in the storage locker of serial killer, Rodney Alcala.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Help-F...61183953929612

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  38. #20
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    Agreed. The so-so quality of the reproductions makes me hesitant about drawing any conclusions about injuries possibly showing in the photos.
    If coincidence never happened, there wouldn't be a word for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bargle View Post
    Agreed. The so-so quality of the reproductions makes me hesitant about drawing any conclusions about injuries possibly showing in the photos.
    The quality of some of these pictures (but not others) does make looking for injuries problematic. However, it's part of the process of figuring out who is at any risk of being an actual victim. (Even that doesn't mean you don't study all the pictures. It's useful to look at ALL the pictures to get an idea of where, when, and how he might have trolled for victims.)

    Lots of these photos are in very public settings where the person was clearly at no risk when the picture was taken. Girls in a crowded nightclub, people in the crowd at a game or concert. That doesn't mean Alcala didn't get one or two alone later, but the odds in any given case aren't that high.

    You could make a scale of risk. People in crowded settings where he clearly can't attack them are at essentially no risk. Condition green.

    People in urban public settings with no one else around (say, an empty city street) are at some risk. Call it condition yellow. He might attack them but he might also be interrupted at any moment. He pushed Robin Samsoe into his car and drove off with her in one such setting.

    People alone with him in a room are at risk, I'd say a higher one. Maybe call that condition orange. Crilley, Wixted, and Parenteau were murdered in their own apartments. He seems to have relied a lot on the thickness of walls and his ability to prevent or stifle screaming with gags or by knocking people out.

    People alone with him outdoors away from the city streets are at elevated risk. Condition orange again. Barcomb, Samsoe, and Hover were found outdoors. Monique H was an outdoor victim who lived. He gagged her with a shirt at one point.

    We know that not everyone indoors or outdoors alone with him was attacked. That brings us to the presence of injuries.

    Injuries on a photo subject are condition red. He has already crossed a line. He's feeling safe enough and mean enough. Worse, having already crossed the line, he's probably thinking he has to finish it with her dead. He's on probation, out on bail, what have you. Tali S survived condition red by pure luck. Somebody saw him hustling her into his place and called the cops. Monique H is the only other condition red survivor of which I'm aware. She apparently pushed exactly the right buttons.

    Take a woman named Monique. She testified Alcala picked her up in 1979, when she was 15, and talked her into posing for photos. He took her up into the mountains near Banning and attacked her, stuffing her shirt into her mouth to gag her. He then bit her breast so hard she passed out. When she came to, she was tied up and he was still nearby, crying. She had the presence of mind to try and make him feel better.

    "I rolled over and patted him on the arm and asked him if he was OK." Even though he had killed at least four women at that point, he didn't kill her. They got back into his car for the ride out of the mountainous area. Monique used "reverse psychology" to try and put him further at ease. "I said, 'Don't tell anyone what happened (and) could I stay at your house?'" This made him trust her enough to leave her while he went to use a gas-station restroom. She escaped.
    http://articles.ocregister.com/2010-...-rodney-alcala

    How many others never hit on exactly the right formula?

    There might have been other survivors, yes. Maybe some of them simply never did go to the police for whatever reasons. But the ones with injuries are the ones you worry about.

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  42. #22
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    "But the ones with injuries are the ones you worry about."

    But, "injuries" is so subjective. Almost every person who looks at these photos sees something different. At any one time almost everyone has a bruise or a red spot on their bodies. And, bad lighting, shadows and artifacts of a photo make it so that many things "appear to be" something that they aren't. Its almost as if some looking at these photos are wishing so hard to find an injury that they see things that aren't there. I guess there's no real harm in doing that. Except that one person THINKS they see something on a photo that no one else has seen...they really WANT to see something. Then the next person comes along and because of the power of suggestion, that person thinks they see it too. I don't see one person in these photos that has a REAL "injury." The dark haired girl at the window does have a questionable mark on her mouth, but the look in her eyes is what draws her out as a strong possible victim of something. The back bend person is another. I see a person doing a back bend there and the look on the face is questionable. But I've never taken a photo of a person doing a back bend in foliage, so don't know what that would look like. I know you'd have to partially close your eyes because of the foliage. But I see no blood running down the face or anything of that matter.

    Just because a person is not smiling, or because they have a red mark somewhere on their body does not mean that they have been beaten up. Just because their hair is messy doesn't mean that they have been roughed up. We know that Alcala was a good looking guy and articulate. He probably had consensual sex with many of these girls. Maybe he liked to photograph them right after they'd had sex. The hair would be messed up in these cases because I doubt Alcala was a gentle lover.

    We know that he revived them from a strangling and then strangled them again. I just don't believe that any of these photos (except perhaps the dark haired girl with the fur coat) have had any knowledge of his evil when these photos were taken. I'm not saying that it didn't happen later, but we can't know that by these photos.

    In reading about MO's and the psychological reasoning behind types of murders, I believe that the entire death scenario took place during/right after the sex act. I believe that he strangled them while they were most vulnerable and that he might have brought them back several times before the final death, but I can't see in any of these women's faces that they had been strangled and then forced to sit for a photo.

    Think about it from a woman's point. (Sorry to the guys reading this but take my word for it.) If a man had just strangled me to the point of unconsciousness and then brought me back, I would be wide eyed, trying to get away by any means. There would be a huge struggle and I would not sit placidly for a photo. No matter what he suggested. He might get a photo of me, but it would be me under a table, trying to get out a door or window or me throwing something at him. You have to put yourself in that position to imagine the state of mind of these women.

    We also know he raped at least one victim and did not murder. There has to be more. I suspect (hope I guess) that the dark haired girl with the fur coat was one of those. You can clearly see the redness on her mouth of a gag and the trauma in her eyes. Looking sad can mimic "loaded." Having your hair messed up or a red mark here or there, especially if you've just had some heavy making out or sex, can be normal.

    I think just because they were inside somewhere with him taking a picture doesn't mean they were alone. It might look like they were alone, but there could be a dozen other people in the room too at the time of the photo.

    Its good to second guess and toss around opinions and ideas, but the bottom line is that we aren't going to be able to know the truth about these photos until people start coming forward or relatives list them as missing. That's why I spend most of my time on this case on the Facebook site, trying to pass the photos around. I've been on Craigslist and MySpace as well. We NEED to get these photos out to the public! Media did a really lame job of doing it and only 1 out of 100 people I've talked to have ever even heard about this case.

    That is what is going to help this case - these people, not speculating on a red mark on a person.

    Lastly, please know that I'm not singling out anyone in particular because I've seen it from more than one. Instead of speculating, let's get together since we are all interested in this case and let's spend time on actually helping get the word out to the public about these people. Perhaps we could get some posters of the photos and post them in places he lived. Perhaps we could go to local TV stations. I know that's what I plan to do to actually MAKE a difference.
    Please consider my comments as my opinion. I don't ask that you agree with me and you are free to scroll past my post. Thanks for respecting my opinion as much as I respect yours.

    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    Please help identify the unidentified photos found in the storage locker of serial killer, Rodney Alcala.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Help-F...61183953929612

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  44. #23
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    Thank you Wildhuncher and Norest4wicked, really insightfully posts. So if the victim is being photographed in various states of provocative pictures, it really lowers their chance of walking away alive. I should be giving priority to the girls in THOSE pictures. I think spending my time promoting the pictures on facebook and myspace is a lot more productive than looking for clues in the pictures themselves. Thank you for your suggestion's. Sometimes I get bogged down in small details that really don't help and it becomes frustrating.

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  46. #24
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    Yes. I know that some people are interested in crime and sleuthing and are comfortable with just staying on these forums and hypothesizing. And there definitely is a place and a need for that in a lot of cases. But, this case in particular doesn't need that. It's been beaten to death. We need to move on now and if we are REALLY interested in helping find these victims, put ourselves in the position of publicizing these photos in the places where they might be recognized. I would guess that not one person who could help in recognizing these people by knowing them personally is on Websleuths. So lets stop speculating and guessing and do something! I feel that this is the ONLY viable way of helping in this case.
    Please consider my comments as my opinion. I don't ask that you agree with me and you are free to scroll past my post. Thanks for respecting my opinion as much as I respect yours.

    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

    Please help identify the unidentified photos found in the storage locker of serial killer, Rodney Alcala.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Help-F...61183953929612

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  48. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by norest4thewicked View Post
    [B]Think about it from a woman's point. (Sorry to the guys reading this but take my word for it.) If a man had just strangled me to the point of unconsciousness and then brought me back, I would be wide eyed, trying to get away by any means. There would be a huge struggle and I would not sit placidly for a photo. No matter what he suggested. He might get a photo of me, but it would be me under a table, trying to get out a door or window or me throwing something at him. You have to put yourself in that position to imagine the state of mind of these women.
    Monique H's solution requires overcoming all instinct and pretending you're only thinking about the welfare and emotional state of the self-obsessed [insert your own expletive here] who just beat you and choked you out. That's one reason I doubt if too many other people found it. And what worked once on Rodney probably won't work on the next murderous creep, anyway. It was probably a one-shot deal anyway you look at it.

    Doesn't mean he couldn't control his victims or get them to pose, though. Any POW since the Korean War will tell you that you can break anybody.

    Again, the plea that came with the pictures is to help identify possible victims therein. As explained above, injuries help separate wheat from chaff. Some injuries are clearer than others regarding whether they even exist, and some injuries are more clearly indicative of criminal assault than others. Goes with the territory.

    Subjectivity ... it must be a DA's nightmare that there's no such thing as overwhelming evidence. He presents eyewitnesses, expert witnesses, eight by ten glossies, DNA lab results, serological results, a bloody glove, the weapon.

    In the jury chambers, it's a Monty Python skit. "'E's just restin'." "No 'e isn't! 'E's DECEASED! 'E's passed this mortal coil and joined the choir invisible!"

    I never cease to marvel, but it's just a feature of certain kinds of discusions. Spent enough time on other forums arguing about other things to know to expect it.

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