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  1. #1
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    What was "The Plan"?

    Last night I got into a long discussion of the Ramsey case with my father. (I'd just received a nice e-mail back from Ann Rule and so my dad and I got on the topic of true crime cases after that.)

    It's interesting to get someone's opinon on the case who hasn't been influenced by all that has happened over the last 7 1/2 years.
    He knew very little about the Ramsey case and so I filled him in on all the facts that I know. He had a lot of good and insightful questions. He is very intelligent and thinks very logically. One question he asked me I had no answer for and told him I hadn't given it much thought. Maybe some of you have. It's an important question.

    If the Ramseys were up all night, or at the very least Patsy, covering up the crime and staging the crime scene - just what do you think they/she assumed would be the course of events the next morning? How did they want things to unfold? By placing JonBenet's body in that small remote room - what did they expect to happen to her?? Did they think the police would leave earlier than they did and not hang around so long? Did they plan to remove the body themselves? What do the choices they made - and did not make - that morning say about what they anticipated would eventully occur?
    What does the time "between 8:00 and 10:00" mean for their plan?
    How does inviting all those people over BEFORE they sought advice from the police on doing that (due to how the note warned them not to) play into their plan and expectations?
    This post is my opinion.

  2. #2
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    Your first mistake, IMO, is thinking Patsy stayed up covering a crime.

    Your second mistake is using the word they. No they, just she.

    Numbers and dates are important symbols in the note, signifying transformation anxiety. 9 is between 8 and 10, 911 is the distress call.

    Psalms 50:15 And call me in the day of trouble, I will deliver you and you will honor me.

    119:146 I have called out to you, save me, and I will keep your statutes.

    The small room was a tomb, as in Jesus'.

    The plan was resurrection. Oops .

    Finally, it was all Patsy's passion play, she even invited the audience.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by K777angel

    How did they want things to unfold?


    They wanted things to unfold that made it appear that all three of the surviving Ramseys in the house that night were completely innocent and the death was totally the result of an intruder, who was a member of a small foreign faction, who broke into the house during the middle of the night to snack on pineapple and have a glass of tea with JonBenet after stungunning her, and who engaged in erotic asphyxiation sex with her and brutally killed her and then hung around for a couple of hours more to clean up the body and put size 12 panties on her and to write a nonsensical three-page ransom note, before finally deciding to leave the house without the collateral (the body).

    JMO

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrotherMoon
    Your first mistake, IMO, is thinking Patsy stayed up covering a crime.

    Your second mistake is using the word they. No they, just she.

    Numbers and dates are important symbols in the note, signifying transformation anxiety. 9 is between 8 and 10, 911 is the distress call.

    Psalms 50:15 And call me in the day of trouble, I will deliver you and you will honor me.

    119:146 I have called out to you, save me, and I will keep your statutes.

    The small room was a tomb, as in Jesus'.

    The plan was resurrection. Oops .

    Finally, it was all Patsy's passion play, she even invited the audience.
    What in the world does Psalm 50 have to do with the death and cover-up of JonBenet Ramsey? How long did it take you to peruse all of the Psalms to find JUST the right one that would "fit" your theory? LOL!! Well... at least you are reading God's word.
    But your religious bias and predjudice is very sad. It makes no sense at all with this crime - try as you might to make it.

    Patsy DID stage the crime scene. Her fiber evidence is on the: body, duct tape, blanket, entwined in the garrote, in the paint tote where she broke the paint brush .... The note points right back to her from her pad of paper and pen to where she placed it on the stairs to her linguistics in the note and handwriting she tried to disguise but cannot be eliminated.
    This post is my opinion.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by K777angel
    What in the world does Psalm 50 have to do with the death and cover-up of JonBenet Ramsey? How long did it take you to peruse all of the Psalms to find JUST the right one that would "fit" your theory? LOL!! Well... at least you are reading God's word.
    But your religious bias and predjudice is very sad. It makes no sense at all with this crime - try as you might to make it.

    Patsy DID stage the crime scene. Her fiber evidence is on the: body, duct tape, blanket, entwined in the garrote, in the paint tote where she broke the paint brush .... The note points right back to her from her pad of paper and pen to where she placed it on the stairs to her linguistics in the note and handwriting she tried to disguise but cannot be eliminated.
    www.Seraph.net

  6. #6
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    Brown fibers were found on wood shards of the broken paintbrush, the duct tape, the nylon cord and on JonBenet's body. These fibers have never been sourced to anything in the Ramsey home, suggesting the killer wore brown gloves.
    There are fibers that ,according to Smit, haven't been made public for fear of alerting the perp.

    There is a question concerning the red fibers,as well. If these fibers came from a black and red jacket, why were only the red fibers found?
    Wouldn't Santa wear red? Can CBI definitively claim one synthetic fiber is consistent with Patsy's coat, without allowing the possibility it would be consistent with a santa suit or any other red apparel made from same chemically identical fiber?
    IMO

  7. #7
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    I think they expected the police to search the house and find JonBenet's body right away. By finding her - they wouldn't have to go through the motions of getting the ransom money (which they ended up having to do)...and the rest of the BS pretending it was a kidnapping.

    The friends were there to protect them from the police and questioning when the body was found.

    The first officer didn't even go into the room and FW didn't turn on the light.
    John was frustrated and had to find the body himself - to end the nightmare.
    IMO -

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLynn
    I think they expected the police to search the house and find JonBenet's body right away. By finding her - they wouldn't have to go through the motions of getting the ransom money (which they ended up having to do)...and the rest of the BS pretending it was a kidnapping.

    The friends were there to protect them from the police and questioning when the body was found.

    The first officer didn't even go into the room and FW didn't turn on the light.
    John was frustrated and had to find the body himself - to end the nightmare.



    Agreed...........they thought the elaborate note would keep LE scrambling around while they continued on with their vacation plans (hence John calling his pilot).
    The saints are the sinners who keep trying...

  9. #9
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    One thing (among many) things that are very odd is the placement of the ransome note. Patsy seems to be very detailed oriented. The pageants, her home decorating etc. She notices the small things and has a flair for putting things together. Why then, would she put the note on the back stairs that only family and friends would know to use? If she/they were trying to give the appearance of an intruder surely this would be considered.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sally
    One thing (among many) things that are very odd is the placement of the ransome note. Patsy seems to be very detailed oriented. The pageants, her home decorating etc. She notices the small things and has a flair for putting things together. Why then, would she put the note on the back stairs that only family and friends would know to use? If she/they were trying to give the appearance of an intruder surely this would be considered.
    This is interesting ,Sally, if you were the intruder or Patsy , where would you place the ransom note. While hundreds of details have been hashed over (and over )since 1996, I don't recall this particular issue being addressed.
    If I wanted it to look like an intruder I would place the note on the child's bed. Most parents would look carefully in a child's room if the child hadn't answered their calls.
    Early on, in an interview, Linda Pugh said Patsy would often leave purses and other items on these steps ,items she wished to have carried upstairs. I would expect a Pugh or anyone that knew Patsy's habits to leave it on the steps, but I don't believe Patsy would have done this.
    imo


  11. #11
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    Re:

    K777 Angel great thread.

    As for the note, if I were a kidnapper, I would probably have left the note on Jonbenet's bed. (though that would depend on the layout of the house).

    As for how the Ramsey's wanted/expected things to play out, perhaps they wanted the police to leave the house, and in that time, they would have removed Jonbenet's body to another location. It certainly would have made the
    kidnapping scenario A LOT more believable.

    I don't think they could bear to put her outside with the elements.



    Tristan
    "Who believes that either John or Burke is good for this. The evidence speaks for itself." JMO

  12. #12
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    If I had been the intruder I'd have put the note on JonBenet's bed or on the kitchen counter.

    If I had been Burke I'd have put the note on the spiral staircase, because Burke knows that's the staircase his mother uses every morning to come downstairs.

    JMO

  13. #13
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    With regard to some of the more detailed parts of the killer's plan, I think the fact that he tried to mask the sexual aspects of the crime is important.

    The killer wiped down the body (leaving numerous dark blue fibers on the inner thighs and the labia of JonBenet), re-dressed her in clean underwear (ridiculous size 12 panties), and put the white longjohn underwear back on her.

    The plan was obviously to disguise the fact that she had been sexually abused (naively not knowing that an autopsy would disclose evidence of the penetration). This, of course, raises the question of why an intruder would be concerned about hiding the sexual aspects of the crime. Why would an intruder care one way or the other? He's outta there for good.

    AN INTRUDER WOULDN'T CARE. Therefore, there was no intruder. Only a Ramsey family member would care about covering up the fact that JonBenet had been acutely sexually abused prior to the strangulation and the bash in the head. The perp wanted it to look like a terrorist kidnapping gone wrong, and NOT a sexual encounter gone wrong.

    JMO

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    With regard to some of the more detailed parts of the killer's plan, I think the fact that he tried to mask the sexual aspects of the crime is important.

    The killer wiped down the body (leaving numerous dark blue fibers on the inner thighs and the labia of JonBenet), re-dressed her in clean underwear (ridiculous size 12 panties), and put the white longjohn underwear back on her.

    The plan was obviously to disguise the fact that she had been sexually abused (naively not knowing that an autopsy would disclose evidence of the penetration). This, of course, raises the question of why an intruder would be concerned about hiding the sexual aspects of the crime. Why would an intruder care one way or the other? He's outta there for good.

    AN INTRUDER WOULDN'T CARE. Therefore, there was no intruder. Only a Ramsey family member would care about covering up the fact that JonBenet had been acutely sexually abused prior to the strangulation and the bash in the head. The perp wanted it to look like a terrorist kidnapping gone wrong, and NOT a sexual encounter gone wrong.

    JMO
    The FBI Child Serial Killer Unit said they believed the sexual abuse done to JonBenet was most likely part of the staging.
    I don't know if I agree with that or not. But I'm not the expert - they are.

    I can find no source Bluecrab that states those fibers were "dark blue." Only that they were "dark."
    We do know though, with the transcript of the police interviews of John Ramsey that they claim the fibers were "black" and had been matched to the black shirt (made in Israel) that John Ramsey wore that night.
    Also, what I find interesting to consider, is that JonBenet herself was wearing BLACK velvet pants that night. Had she wet her pants - those black fibers would have stuck to her everywhere! Even if she hadn't wet those pants, the black fibers could have been there. Just a thought....
    And we only have Patsy's 'word' that she changed her into her long john bottoms when they got home. She in fact told the first detectives that JonBenet went to bed with her "red turtleneck" on. Which they found wadded up into a ball on her bathroom counter top. Now think about this: IF JonBenet was truly "sound asleep" when they arrived home and never woke up even when Patsy changed her into her night clothes like she claimed - WHY would that red turtleneck which JonBenet had been wearing - be in the bathroom on the countertop in a ball and not lying on the floor next to her bed or on her bed where Patsy says she changed her???
    JonBenet was obviously AWAKE when that turtleneck was pulled off her and probably in the bathroom where the top was then tossed to the side.

    Patsy's story of JonBenet staying "sound asleep" through changing her clothes, praying over her etc. etc. has NEVER rang true. Not only that - the detectives first on the scene record John's statement as saying that he in fact READ to JonBenet when they got home.
    Burke says she walked into the house.
    John says he read to her.
    She ate pineapple after she got home.

    JonBenet WAS awake when she got home that night.
    And somehow all hell broke loose and she ended up dead.
    There would be absolutely NO reason to lie about whether she was awake (which evidence shows she was) - if they have nothing to hide.

    The Ramseys main alibi for that night is the same for all of them: SLEEP.
    The facts though prove differently....
    This post is my opinion.

  15. #15
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    BC said:
    I think the fact that he tried to mask the sexual aspects of the crime is important.
    So do I. How could the FBI think that the minor sexual trauma was staged, when it was noticeable only at autopsy? Had the sexual trauma been part of the staging, it would have been more severe and the injury immediately obvious.

    imo

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