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  1. #1
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    what chances are there

    to solve this case



    okay,so if IDI,it's a question of luck I guess,the case begins to move if there will be a DNA match (not necessarily but probably)

    but what about RDI
    it's obvious the two (JR,BR) won't ever talk
    what other chances are there to get them
    what additional tests can be done?
    would an exhumation help?
    what witnesses could help,stanton,white,who else?if their memories are refreshed
    would another civil suit help,if yes,how


    a child was murdered.there MUST be something they can do about it.IF they want,of course.....
    or is it really too late
    Ramsey case: "Instead of being the DNA of one person, they have instead created a composite of someone who does not exist. "

  2. #2
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    is it really too late?

    Heyya Madeleine.

    Wonder if certain aspects of the crime are no longer prosecutable?


    Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...#ixzz1EuFr3Eqw

    This may vary by state, but Florida for example has a limit of four years in which the prosecution must be initiated for manslaughter (and second and third degree murder as well).


    http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...sdemeanors.htm

    Statute: Colorado 16-5-401

    Summary: The following sets forth a description of a particular crime or infraction, followed by the time period following such crime within which a legal action can be initiated. If action is not taken within the stated period below, the victim may potentially lose its right to press charges and the state may no longer be entitled to prosecute:
    Felonies:
    • Murder, attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit murder, kidnapping, attempt, conspiracy or solicitation to commit kidnapping, treason, attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit treason, any forgery regardless of penalty provided, attempt, conspiracy or solicitation to commit any forgery regardless of penalty provided: N/A
    • Sexual assault, aggravated incest, trafficking in or sexual exploitation of children, soliciting for child prostitution, pandering or child procurement: 10 years
    • Other felonies: 3 years (bribery and abuse of public office: 3 year extension; sexual offenses on children under 15 years of age: 7 year extension)
    Misdemeanors:
    • 18 months
    • Class I and II and traffic offenses: 1 year
    • Petty offenses: 6 months
    • 3rd degree sexual assault: 5 years
    Last edited by Tadpole12; 02-24-2011 at 03:45 PM. Reason: add info

  3. #3
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    I feel like the only way this case will ever be solved is if John confesses on his deathbed or has something in his will that says when he dies, all the details about the murder will be revealed. It will be like in the Adam Walsh case when LE gave a press conference saying that they had solved the case but the killer was dead so there was no trial. However, if Burke was involved, then I don't think John will reveal what happens in his will/on deathbed because even if Burke can't be prosecuted, he would still have to go the rest of his life being known as the murderer of JonBenet Ramsey.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Tadpole12 View Post
    is it really too late?

    Heyya Madeleine.

    Wonder if certain aspects of the crime are no longer prosecutable?


    Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...#ixzz1EuFr3Eqw

    This may vary by state, but Florida for example has a limit of four years in which the prosecution must be initiated for manslaughter (and second and third degree murder as well).


    http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...sdemeanors.htm

    Statute: Colorado 16-5-401

    Summary: The following sets forth a description of a particular crime or infraction, followed by the time period following such crime within which a legal action can be initiated. If action is not taken within the stated period below, the victim may potentially lose its right to press charges and the state may no longer be entitled to prosecute:
    Felonies:
    • Murder, attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit murder, kidnapping, attempt, conspiracy or solicitation to commit kidnapping, treason, attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit treason, any forgery regardless of penalty provided, attempt, conspiracy or solicitation to commit any forgery regardless of penalty provided: N/A
    • Sexual assault, aggravated incest, trafficking in or sexual exploitation of children, soliciting for child prostitution, pandering or child procurement: 10 years
    • Other felonies: 3 years (bribery and abuse of public office: 3 year extension; sexual offenses on children under 15 years of age: 7 year extension)
    Misdemeanors:
    • 18 months
    • Class I and II and traffic offenses: 1 year
    • Petty offenses: 6 months
    • 3rd degree sexual assault: 5 years
    Hey Tad, the way I read it, there is no limit for murder.

  5. #5
    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    to solve this case



    okay,so if IDI,it's a question of luck I guess,the case begins to move if there will be a DNA match (not necessarily but probably)
    The way I see it, assuming there was more than one person involved, there is always a chance that it can be solved still. People can never keep quiet indefinitely about this, so we have the perp(s) and their significant other who may know/guess about their involvement. Perhaps when the killer dies, the accomplice or his/her confidant might tell. Money (reward) on offer, especially from TV or newspapers for the story would be a good lure. Fortune and fame are hard to resist.

    It's also possible the killer has already confessed to someone who is not legally/morally able to reveal (priest, psychiatrist, lawyer), but may do so after the perps death.

    There may be someone in jail currently whose crime does not permit authorities to take a sample of his DNA, but on release may reoffend.

    From a forensic point of view, I was just reading about GHB and it's detection. Apparently it can now be detected in hair, even from just one dose. Unfortunately, at present, it has to be collected one month after. This isn't possible when the person has died the same day, but it may in future be an avenue for this test at least. To me, a positive would prove (if that was really needed) that someone other than the family was involved, but unfortunately, it would not reveal just who. I think the body itself may only serve to prove the case against a killer, rather than give a clue to who it was.

    So, yes DNA might be the best bet, perhaps not from the actual murderer but from a relative. They are getting better tests that can identify family members of someone whose DNA is already in the system and, if the person whose DNA we seek was already a suspect or was incorrectly cleared then this would go a long way to solving the case. It seems that in many investigations, the actual perp has been looked at and dismissed early in the investigation, maybe because they had an alibi or seemed unlikely to have been involved.

    I find it hard to understand why the DNA tests do not reveal ethnicity, when they reveal gender. Perhaps in future this will help to narrow the field, for example if the SFF is of non-caucasion origin, especially if this is unusual for Boulder in 1996.

    but what about RDI
    it's obvious the two (JR,BR) won't ever talk
    what other chances are there to get them
    what additional tests can be done?
    would an exhumation help?
    what witnesses could help,stanton,white,who else?if their memories are refreshed
    would another civil suit help,if yes,how


    a child was murdered.there MUST be something they can do about it.IF they want,of course.....
    or is it really too late
    I think all the avenues for pinning it on the Rs have been exhausted. It's not as if they didn't try.

  6. #6
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    Oct 2010
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    I think this is a good thread for us to all get in on....

    I mean it has been 14-15 years and everything that is known hasn't lead to an arrest nor has it threatened to lead to an arrest. Keeping in mind that if it ever WAS close to someone being charged, that was a significant while ago.

    So what is needed?

    As madeleine said, IDI requires a DNA match to identify a specific intruder, and the chances of that happening are reasonably low.

    RDI always comes back to a confession from one of the suspects and given one of them would require a seance to question, we're restricted to two people.

    John clearly isn't talking and I wouldn't be holding my breath for a deathbed confession. He doesn't strike me as the 'needing to clear one's mind' type in that respect.
    Which leaves Burke.

    I've always referred to Patsy as the weak link in the RDI Guilt chain, but with her out of the picture, Burke has assumed the mantle of weakest link.

    If RDI is correct, and the majority of players believe it is (of course, that doesn't mean it IS corrent), then Burke should be the focus of our attention.

    I'm not saying he did it, but he lived with the people MOST of us think DID do it for another 10 years after the murder. People talk, people whisper, sons ask questions.

    He clearly isn't talking to police, so he needs to get a best friend....a bit like the "friend" of Joran van der Sloot who befriended him and got a confession out of him which was recorded in his car.

    The information might be inadmissible, but it certainly could further a lead one way or the other.


    Just adding a bit after reading Murri's post.....the Ramsey's Priest would be a good person to interview.
    I know there's the whole "no speakee" thing with Priests, but really....if someone has confessed a murder how about "One cought for yes, two coughs for no Father".....
    Last edited by wonderllama; 02-24-2011 at 06:47 PM. Reason: Read Murri's post

  7. #7
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    ITA, Wonderllama, but I also think there may be a couple more people who do know what happened that night (or the gist of it,anyway). Number one on my list is Pam Paugh, and I believe JR will be taking care of her for the rest of his life. JAR would be my next best bet for knowing what happened. Would either of these two ever 'fess up? Probably not, unless JR should try to make Patsy the guilty one and then Pam would spill it all!
    "This Time We Get it Right!"

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." Stuart Chase

  8. #8
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    [quote=MurriFlower;6154215]

    The way I see it, assuming there was more than one person involved, there is always a chance that it can be solved still. People can never keep quiet indefinitely about this, so we have the perp(s) and their significant other who may know/guess about their involvement.
    It's also possible the killer has already confessed to someone who is not legally/morally able to reveal (priest, psychiatrist, lawyer), but may do so after the perps death.
    From a forensic point of view, I was just reading about GHB and it's detection. Apparently it can now be detected in hair, even from just one dose. Unfortunately, at present, it has to be collected one month after. This isn't possible when the person has died the same day, but it may in future be an avenue for this test at least. To me, a positive would prove (if that was really needed) that someone other than the family was involved, but unfortunately, it would not reveal just who. I think the body itself may only serve to prove the case against a killer, rather than give a clue to who it was.

    So, yes DNA might be the best bet, perhaps not from the actual murderer but from a relative. They are getting better tests that can identify family members of someone whose DNA is already in the system and, if the person whose DNA we seek was already a suspect or was incorrectly cleared then this would go a long way to solving the case. It seems that in many investigations, the actual perp has been looked at and dismissed early in the investigation, maybe because they had an alibi or seemed unlikely to have been involved.

    I find it hard to understand why the DNA tests do not reveal ethnicity, when they reveal gender. Perhaps in future this will help to narrow the field, for example if the SFF is of non-caucasion origin, especially if this is unusual for Boulder in 1996.
    I actually agree with this. Scary.
    However, the (unlikely) discovery of the presence of GHB would not rule out a family member. The presence itself simply indicates she was given the drug. It doesn't indicate who gave to to her. Because of that, it is impossible to say it was or was not the parents.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post

    I actually agree with this. Scary.
    However, the (unlikely) discovery of the presence of GHB would not rule out a family member. The presence itself simply indicates she was given the drug. It doesn't indicate who gave to to her. Because of that, it is impossible to say it was or was not the parents.
    Yeah, wonder of wonders LOL.

    As I said, the body would not really give any clues to the identity of the killer. It would really only assist after the perp is found by some other means, assuming the crime has left residual evidence that can still be detected in the remains (GHB is an example.)

    Naturally for RDI, they would still be in denial that it rules out the parents, nothing new there. To them, even foreign DNA is of no value, so I can imagine drugs wouldn't be either.

    For me, if GHB were to be detected, it would 'explain' the pineapple. Of course, it may have absolutely nothing to do with the crime at all. I don't expect the ME went through the entire contents of her stomach and meticulously identified the source of each the other components, so we don't know what other foods/drinks she may have consumed that are 'unexplained'.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurriFlower View Post
    Hey Tad, the way I read it, there is no limit for murder.
    Heyya MF.

    Yes.
    "N/A", no statute of limitation, for the first grouping of felonies, incl Murder, attempt, conspiracy, or solicitation to commit murder, kidnapping, attempt, conspiracy or solicitation to commit kidnapping,

    Sexual assault, aggravated incest: 10 years.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurriFlower View Post
    Hey Tad, the way I read it, there is no limit for murder.
    I'm glad this came up.

    It's true that murder has no limit, but the fact is, we don't know if JB was murdered in the legal sense. If it was unintentional, it's not murder.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurriFlower View Post
    I think all the avenues for pinning it on the Rs have been exhausted.
    I would agree, but in a much different way than you mean.

    It's not as if they didn't try.
    I guess that depends on how you look at it. Indeed, lack of trying was, as I see it, exactly the problem. Even if you agree that the police and DA did their best, as I've devoted CONSIDERABLE time to explaining, Boulder's best is like anyone else's worst.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    I'm glad this came up.

    It's true that murder has no limit, but the fact is, we don't know if JB was murdered in the legal sense. If it was unintentional, it's not murder.
    True, BUT - there is no way to prove it was NOT intentional- she was strangled with a ligature and had a huge hole punched into her skull. Unless one of the Rs actually ADMITS what happened was an accident, as far as the legal status of this death- it is a murder.

    And while that skull fracture could possibly be an accident, it is hard to conceive of any accidental way that the strangulation occurred. If it was part of a sexual act not intended to kill- it is still murder- the death resulted from a criminal activity- sexual activity with a child.
    If it was staging- that is a crime in its own right. Tampering with evidence, tampering with a corpse. Not as severe as murder, but something I doubt the family will ever want to admit, even to solve the case once and for all. Why would they? There is no incentive for them to tell the truth. Two of the verified people in the home that night are out of the "bucket". One is dead, and the other can never be charged.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    And while that skull fracture could possibly be an accident, it is hard to conceive of any accidental way that the strangulation occurred.
    Yes.Even IF the head bash was an accident and they strangled her (not knowing she was still alive) in order to cover it up and JR will ever confess this is how it happened,the report lists strangulation as COD and no way can he prove it wasn't by intent.Vicious circle.
    Ramsey case: "Instead of being the DNA of one person, they have instead created a composite of someone who does not exist. "

  15. #15
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    there is something I will never get.let's say this is how it happened (don't think so personally),BR or PR accidentally hit her (how can you accidentally hit someone that hard anyway?) or pushed her and she fell and hit her head or something.okay,you don't wanna admit you hit/pushed her.....why not just simply call 911 "I found my daughter,she's not conscious,she fell down the stairs,pls help".i can't believe someone would not call 911 just because she/he's afraid his/her CHILD will wake up and tell on them.but to rather stage something so creepy if it was only an accident..........i don't think so....
    there is more to this............and there is what the doctors said re prior abuse as well,the blood on the panties,etc.
    i guess my point is,if it was just a simple accident....there would have been no reason for SUCH a creepy psycho beyond my understanding staging(rape,strangulation).........hope this makes sense,am sleepy
    and why would you stage a sexual assault if you write a ransom note,doesn't make sense!either this or that.
    RN+head bash without sexual assault would have made sense/and why add strangulation anyway?head bash +rn would have been enough to suggest kidnapping gone wrong
    or
    sexual assault +a DIFFERENT kind of note,not ransom but something a la JMK maybe
    Last edited by madeleine; 03-02-2011 at 10:36 AM.
    Ramsey case: "Instead of being the DNA of one person, they have instead created a composite of someone who does not exist. "

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