GUILTY CO - Charles, 50, & Marilyn Long, 51, murdered, Burlington, 1 March 2011

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Always a good idea to have guns where kids can get them...:(
 
cluciano63 said:
Always a good idea to have guns where kids can get them...:(
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Clu, while I agree, I don't think that's the issue. Kids have had access to guns for generations - but what we're seeing is escalating, IMO. Your average 12-yr-old isn't going to grab a gun and kill his parents. :(

(I'm not trying to debate gun control but rather something else that is going on inside families these days - throughout our society. And it saddens and frightens me.)

As a child, we had guns all over the house. My dad hunted and also had some pistols, etc. We all knew not to bother the guns.
 
belimom said:
Clu, while I agree, I don't think that's the issue. Kids have had access to guns for generations - but what we're seeing is escalating, IMO. Your average 12-yr-old isn't going to grab a gun and kill his parents. :(

(I'm not trying to debate gun control but rather something else that is going on inside families these days - throughout our society. And it saddens and frightens me.)

As a child, we had guns all over the house. My dad hunted and also had some pistols, etc. We all knew not to bother the guns.
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Is it escalating? I honestly don't know, but it's my understanding that murder rates in general have gone down since the 1970s.

It's true there have been guns since Europeans arrived on the continent, but patricide and matricide go way back, too. See Sophocles and Aeschylus.
 
Nova said:
Is it escalating? I honestly don't know, but it's my understanding that murder rates in general have gone down since the 1970s.

It's true there have been guns since Europeans arrived on the continent, but patricide and matricide go way back, too. See Sophocles and Aeschylus.
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You're right - I don't know if it's escalating but it appears to. I wasn't talking about from the 70's, though, I was talking about from like the 1900's.

But it's a debate I've seen before about crimes: are they more prevalent or are we just hearing more about it b/c of how 'connected' we are these days?
 
LE has now arrested the boy and his two siblings are in critical condition.

Neighbors say the family also has 4 adult children, one in Iraq. Also a home-schooling family, church going & active Christians, including the 12yo. All children described as well behaved and kind.

Dad had a blog discussing balancing his family life with homeschooling & truck driving (Frito truck).

One neighbor says 12yo would visit while he (neighbor) was gardening and complain of being bored.

The church pastor described the 12yo as being one of the top 2 or 3 most helpful children at church.

What do you think was going on behind closed doors that would make this boy decide to shoot his family?
 
I doubt that 'boredom' drove him to it.
 
belimom said:
Clu, while I agree, I don't think that's the issue. Kids have had access to guns for generations - but what we're seeing is escalating, IMO. Your average 12-yr-old isn't going to grab a gun and kill his parents. :(

(I'm not trying to debate gun control but rather something else that is going on inside families these days - throughout our society. And it saddens and frightens me.)

As a child, we had guns all over the house. My dad hunted and also had some pistols, etc. We all knew not to bother the guns.
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BBM How did you all know not to bother the guns? What would have happened to you if you did?
 
Trident said:
BBM How did you all know not to bother the guns? What would have happened to you if you did?
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I don't know. Just a respect for them, I guess? I mean, of course we knew we'd get in trouble, but we had seen them at work. I knew guns could kill a deer and was woken up and dragged out of bed to look at a deer (I hated that... :no:) every time my dad or older brother killed a deer. I knew guns could kill birds and helped my dad clean quail and doves. I didn't hunt but had seen my dad practice at targets and sight in new scopes, etc. When my dad said 'don't touch those guns - don't even go near them unless I'm with you b/c they're dangerous', we KNEW that. We had seen it in real life.

I wish I could pinpoint what it was, but I just don't know. Maybe a healthy respect - and I hate to throw this in - but lack of violent TV shows or video games that would ever make us think of pointing a gun at a person...?

Don't get me wrong: there's not a gun in my own house right now. DH wouldn't dream of it with kids around. I'm not as opposed to them as DH is b/c I was raised around them, but I agree with him there: kids and guns don't mix. Just b/c we didn't bother my dad's guns doesn't mean it doesn't happen. But I think of that more in terms of accidental shootings, which is not what happened in this case, sadly. I think this boy is very troubled or was driven over the edge by something.

Okay, I feel that I'm rambling now... Maybe my example doesn't apply here. :eek:
 
Nova said:
Is it escalating? I honestly don't know, but it's my understanding that murder rates in general have gone down since the 1970s.

It's true there have been guns since Europeans arrived on the continent, but patricide and matricide go way back, too. See Sophocles and Aeschylus.
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I think we hear more now because of a 24/7 news cycle and ease of broadcasting all over the world. Not waiting for the "6 o'clock news" or the one newspaper in town. We are saturated with it.

That said, I think it is alarmingly common...

Trident said:
BBM How did you all know not to bother the guns? What would have happened to you if you did?
Click to expand...

My Dad (Grandad, friends etc...) were all hunters too, avid! Not a gun safe or cabinet among them, my Dad kept his guns on the top shelf in the master bedroom closet. We were told never to touch them or go near them without an adult there (my Dad). When he had them out, went hunting or whatever we were not discouraged from touching them or asking questions, even shooting (while out on a trip with him). We also helped him reload all of his own ammo, which was kept in the drawer in the closet. I don't know what would have happened if I had gotten a gun down, but I didn't EVER, my Dad told me not too, so I didn't, to my knowledge, neither did my sister.

Also, in my house growing up, and now with my kids the rule was "Guns are not toys and toys are not guns" we never had toy guns, I chose not to play with toy guns at friends houses (maybe I was scared, I don't know) and I do not allow my children toy guns. I don't follow a ton of my parents rules that they maintained when I was growing up for my children, but this is one that I do.
 
The little 4yo girl is improving, thank goodness.

Let's please not derail this into a discussion about gun control or safety, the victims deserve more than that.
 
Marie said:
The little 4yo girl is improving, thank goodness.

Let's please not derail this into a discussion about gun control or safety, the victims deserve more than that.
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Marie, I agree. But I don't think a healthy discussion detracts too much.

Back to the case, though - I do wonder what caused this boy to do this. And I pray that the siblings will recover... Prayers for them and to the family.
 
My only point about guns is that if they were not available he would have been unlikely to have been able to actually kill two, perhaps four, people. We knows kids that age are very impulsive, their brains are not fully-developed, etc...more than we used to know. And yet this keeps on happening.
 
Sure guns killing people has been happening forever, but has 12 yr olds killing their parents been happening forever?

The only conclusion I can come up with is TV and video games..... but millions of kids have those, and don't murder their families IMO

Soo so tragic..... Seemed like such a great family
 
Nova said:
Is it escalating? I honestly don't know, but it's my understanding that murder rates in general have gone down since the 1970s.

It's true there have been guns since Europeans arrived on the continent, but patricide and matricide go way back, too. See Sophocles and Aeschylus.
Click to expand...

This was interesting
STATISTICS:
• On average, about five parents are killed by their biological children in the United States every week.
• Of the approximately 250 parents killed by their offspring each year, about 100 of these victims are mothers. Despite the frequency, little is known about the perpetrators, particularly when they are females.
• Most mothers who are slain by their offspring are killed by sons. However, the involvement of daughters in matricides is still quite substantial. From 1976 to 1999, the killers in approximately 1 of 6 matricides were daughters.
• Most matricides involve adult offenders. The number of offenders younger than 18 arrested for killing their mothers in the 24 year study period mentioned above ranged from 8 to 24 per year and averaged 17 per year. Girls younger than 18 were the killers in 20 percent of the matricide incidents committed by juveniles.
• The number of mothers killed by daughters under 18 ranged from 1 to 7 per year, and averaged less than 4 per year.
• Analyses since the mid-1970s to now provide no evidence that the incidence of parricide is increasing. Available data suggest, in contrast, that the killings of parents have decreased over the last 30 years.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/10/48hours/main6383938.shtml


Regarding guns in homes, I tend to think there's a disconnect between what kids see on television, and the permanence of a real shooting. (there's more to it than that...but I don't think 12 year olds always get it about dead and forever.)

I know I teach my daughter the same thing my dad taught me but I've added to it "when you pick up a gun, it's to kill someone, not hurt them, not scare them. Never as a joke. If you kill someone it's forever and can't be undone."
 
Stories like this are so hard to understand.
Praying real hard for the two little ones.
 
When I hear about a 12 yr old boy, who was home schooled by a very religious family, and tells the neighbor he was really bored, I wonder about repressed anger towards his family. Maybe when he says 'bored' he really means 'lonely.' Maybe the family kept him away from other kids and he did a lot of chores and had responsibilities, but no real friends. He could have snapped from the internal pressure of the repressed anger.

I say that because I knew of a boy who was in a similar situation. He held it in, then finally snapped and killed the family cat. They sent him away for much needed help, thank goodness. But I think he was emotionally neglected, although he was with his family all of the time, if that makes sense.
 
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