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Thread: How much latitude in evidence?

  1. #1
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    How much latitude in evidence?

    Watching the posters on WRAL - and wondering how a jury will be influenced. Especially with the verdict in the Raymond Cook 2nd degree murder (DUI) trial and how 2 holdout jurors made the conviction go to a lesser charge...

    Do we expect to see the depositions created during the custody battle to be entered into evidence/ played / discussed more in depth? Do we expect to see the "state of their marriage" delved into? Their finances?

    I suspect the state will do this as they build the case for motive - but - what else will be brought up on the defense side? Will there be discussions of the infidelity? (on both sides) I suspect there will be to give reasonable doubt, or to infer that someone else may have had motive.

    The reason I am asking is that I am not so sure the jury will be able to weed through all the drama and stick to the facts. I am worried that in somehow painting Nancy as less than perfect somehow calls into question Brad's motive, or somehow "justifies" something or makes them angry at the victim and less likely to convict someone who they can somehow identify with.

    I think the Raymond Cook deal got me thinking. GOLO has to be more representative of the jury pool than WS. And - most folks on GOLO simply could NOT understand that 2nd degree didn't have to mean that you intended to kill someone, only that you had willful disregard or such. I truly believe that they kept thinking "oh - it was an accident" or "I know I have driven drunk a few times and I would never mean to kill someone" - and 2 holdout jurors forced the lesser conviction.

    If Brad somehow gets painted with a brush that shows him as hardworking, trying to provide for his family and a wife that was never happy (even with more material possessions that many folks seated on the jury) - do they stop looking at his motive and be less concerned about finding justice?

    I don't think this would be overt - as in "she was ungrateful and deserved it" - but I think that we all somehow get less up in arms when the victim is less "perfect" and it would appear that evidence here is likely to be fairly circumstantial.

    Can you tell I want this thing to get underway already???

  2. #2
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    Yes, all of the above.
    Look no further than the Mike Peterson trial to see finances, family dynamics and even homosexual affairs.

    The difference in this trial and Dr Ray Cook is there will be no 'lesser charge' for the jury to compromise on. He is either guilty of 1st degree murder or not guilty (very doubtful)
    Sure, there could be a hung jury, but that just means the state will likely do it all over again.

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  4. #3
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    I sure hope the jury will be able to pay attention to the factual evidence and not get confused by the flotsam that surely will be brought into the case.

    The defense will likely try to bring up everything they can think of in the hope of influencing the jury's emotions. Bashing the victim is too often utilized.

    It will be interesting to see how they confront and cross examine the various experts.

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  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just the Fax View Post
    He is either guilty of 1st degree murder or not guilty (very doubtful)
    I don't mean to question you if you are in the know but are you sure that is correct in terms of North Carlolina law? Were Brad tried in Canada for this crime the jury would have the option of finding 2nd degree murder (which in Canada can be described in this case as a crime of passion where the killer went into a sort of fit and did not form the intent to kill the victim).

    Regardless, if Brad was the killer he likely also spoofed the phone call from their home to his cell the morning of the murder, which would suggest planned premeditation. I'm certain that's first degree in both the US and Canada.

    Have faith in the jury system. I'm a little more confident now that I know the cell search warrant was not actually executed on the eve of jury selection. I think Brad did it, but I also think there's a chance he did not, but only because I don't know what all the evidence is. Its actually really hard for me to believe it is possible "some random killer" or a lover did it, and the affair evidence won't really provide a motive for someone else IMHO.

    But who knows where the evidence will lead? And I suppose even 1 juror can hold out and result in a hung jury. I'll be following this trial with great interest.

  7. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by calgary123 View Post
    I don't mean to question you if you are in the know but are you sure that is correct in terms of North Carlolina law? Were Brad tried in Canada for this crime the jury would have the option of finding 2nd degree murder (which in Canada can be described in this case as a crime of passion where the killer went into a sort of fit and did not form the intent to kill the victim).

    Regardless, if Brad was the killer he likely also spoofed the phone call from their home to his cell the morning of the murder, which would suggest planned premeditation. I'm certain that's first degree in both the US and Canada.

    Have faith in the jury system. I'm a little more confident now that I know the cell search warrant was not actually executed on the eve of jury selection. I think Brad did it, but I also think there's a chance he did not, but only because I don't know what all the evidence is. Its actually really hard for me to believe it is possible "some random killer" or a lover did it, and the affair evidence won't really provide a motive for someone else IMHO.

    But who knows where the evidence will lead? And I suppose even 1 juror can hold out and result in a hung jury. I'll be following this trial with great interest.

    At this point, there has not been a motion by the defense to consider 2nd degree murder as an option for the jury. I suppose that could come as the case unfolds and the state's case is fully revealed.

    I agree the 'affair' evidence will be just that. Absolutely no motive for an abduction murder after 7AM while she was jogging in the neighborhood.

  8. #6
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    I am still thinking that the DA has more evidence than we have seen. Jmo of course.

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  10. #7
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    Oh course they do!

    We haven't seen anything from the DA. All we've seen are the search warrant requests from Cary police, what they are looking for and have asked for. And the only reason we've seen those, as well as the motions, is because those documents become part of the public record, so the media gets a copy. We haven't seen what they actually found as a result of those search warrants, what it means, or the results of any testing. We are not yet privy to the physical evidence found, results of computer forensics examinations, or any of it.

    If you notice, neither the DA nor the police dept has released any information in this case. Everything known so far is gleaned from prior affidavits, motions, the custody depos and media reports (all public documents). None of it, btw, is testimony or necessarily evidence for the criminal case (yet). But wait until trial. What they have will be revealed there.
    Last edited by SleuthyGal; 03-08-2011 at 11:56 AM.

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  12. #8
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    the reason I brought that up is so many commentors on the msm sites seem to be insisting he is innocent. No one can know yet, no evidence has been presented. jmo. I will see you all back here for the trial.

  13. #9
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    LOL, don't get discouraged because the msm's are putting in their of doubt. Believe me, they don't know 1/2 as much as many of us here, who watched this case unfold wayyy back when.

    I remember hearing, night after night after night, during the Scott Peterson trial, what a terrible job the DA was doing and they hadn't proved their case and yadda, yadda, yadda...................but you see, they did NOT know the DA knew absolutely what he was doing. He wasn't out grandstanding, like the def attorney did night after night,......he was doing his job and the jury was listening. The JURY got it!

    I've most likely forgotten 1/2 of what they have on Brad. But believe me, this DA does NOT like loosing and would not have arrested this guy if they thought there was even a chance they'd loose. Sure, it could go either way, but my money is on {guilty!}.....

    IMHO, they have the goods on Brad. He thought he was soooo smart, but he's NOT.....time will tell,.............yep! time will tell.

    JMHO
    fran

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  15. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just the Fax View Post
    At this point, there has not been a motion by the defense to consider 2nd degree murder as an option for the jury.
    Ah I see, thanks. In Canada it would be different, 2nd degree murder is considered a lesser included offence of 1st degree murder, so the jury is always able to consider it.

    As for the bias in the msm website message postings, its nothing to worry about. There is a certain amount of bias no matter what you think or even what you think you know at this point, on either side. And some people just hate the police and want him acquitted, and some people just want a conviction regardless, based on media reports.

    The internet will not decide this case, nor will a newspaper, but the evidence will. In the mean time its going to be an interesting several weeks to see what comes out.

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  17. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiogirl View Post
    the reason I brought that up is so many commentors on the msm sites seem to be insisting he is innocent. No one can know yet, no evidence has been presented. jmo. I will see you all back here for the trial.
    When you say 'commentors,' are you speaking about 'anonymous posts?' in their public forum?

    Let me just put it this way. During the course of this case, PRIOR to Brad being arrested, he had, ah-hem,................shall we say friends who posted on OUR forum? ......................please don't ask me how I know, LOL, it wasn't difficult to figure out! Oh, and then there was Brad himself, who purchased a NEW computer AFTER LE confiscated his, even from his work. Old Brad used to sit up late at night and IMHO, scanned the internet. Now, without you asking, I'll tell you HOW we KNOW he was most likely reading here. One of our posters mentioned about how his lights were on late at night. They could see the lights burning from large windows that didn't have window-coverings. LOL, within a few days, those windows were covered. ...What a coinky-dink!

    Yeah! Brad AND his friends thought they were ohhhhh so clever! But alas! Some of us caught on! I'm sure Brad isn't posting because I don't believe they get access to online but I would imagine his friends are. And Brad most likely has them convinced he's innocent. IF he's convicted, they'll then say he was bush-wacked!

    NOT even to mention that, although Brad was a very bright guy and had a good job and did well at what he did, NOT EVERYONE liked him. IF you know what I mean.

    JMHO
    fran

    PS....LOL, just for fun, I used to come online after most of those participating in the Nancy Cooper forum had retired for the night as they were three hours ahead of my Pacific Time. Sometimes I used to put a post on and all of a suddend say "Hi Brad!" out of the clear blue. I was hoping it would {startle him!} .......yeah, I'm mean.

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  19. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by fran View Post
    PS....LOL, just for fun, I used to come online after most of those participating in the Nancy Cooper forum had retired for the night as they were three hours ahead of my Pacific Time. Sometimes I used to put a post on and all of a suddend say "Hi Brad!" out of the clear blue. I was hoping it would {startle him!} .......yeah, I'm mean.
    I've missed you guys, LOL!!!

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  21. #13
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    Hey RKAB!

    How are you? I saw the post you put in the media thread.

    Are you going to be able to go to the trial?

    fran

  22. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just the Fax View Post
    At this point, there has not been a motion by the defense to consider 2nd degree murder as an option for the jury. I suppose that could come as the case unfolds and the state's case is fully revealed.

    I agree the 'affair' evidence will be just that. Absolutely no motive for an abduction murder after 7AM while she was jogging in the neighborhood.
    No motive for this guy either:

    http://www.goupstate.com/article/200...CLES/905151046

    In the Huff case, the police went after the husband first until the DNA didn't match. If there were no DNA, he likely would have been convicted of a crime he did not commit and was actually perpetrated by a stranger while the victim was out jogging in the morning near her home.

    Just sayin'...

    ETA: I realize he probably did it. But there is the possibility that he didn't that many will not even consider. I have a lot of questions about how the prosecution has handled the case and look forward to the details coming out in the trial.
    Last edited by cygnusx1; 03-09-2011 at 03:51 PM.

  23. #15
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    Fran, I'd like to reiterate that I am not a friend of Brad. I've never met him, don't care to ever meet him, and wouldn't be friends if I did. Given how they lived their lives (at least what has gotten out so far), I wouldn't have wanted to meet either one of them.....but I am fascinated by the case and I'm ready to see the evidence.

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  25. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiogirl View Post
    the reason I brought that up is so many commentors on the msm sites seem to be insisting he is innocent. No one can know yet, no evidence has been presented. jmo. I will see you all back here for the trial.
    I think that's how it should be ... innocent until proven guilty.

  26. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by fran View Post
    LOL, don't get discouraged because the msm's are putting in their of doubt. Believe me, they don't know 1/2 as much as many of us here, who watched this case unfold wayyy back when.
    [snip]

    I've most likely forgotten 1/2 of what they have on Brad. But believe me, this DA does NOT like loosing and would not have arrested this guy if they thought there was even a chance they'd loose. Sure, it could go either way, but my money is on {guilty!}.....

    IMHO, they have the goods on Brad. He thought he was soooo smart, but he's NOT.....time will tell,.............yep! time will tell.

    JMHO
    fran
    Fran,

    Hello again!

    I agree with your comments on the media. I have met the DA before, but I don't know much about him other than what I have learned on here, but judging from how long they took to arrest JY, I would tend to agree. I have read the documents on the JY case, and IMO they had enough evidence to convict St. Peter, yet they would not arrest him!

    Given the fact that BC is on trial already, I would think they have a pretty good case on him.

    I think there is going to be a lot of mud in the water. The defense has to throw a lot of confusing things in the minds of the jurors and I think will try to drag NC through the mud too. This might backfire, but allowing the video deposition to be put on WRAL, in all its full glory, was a drastic mistake. The body language alone was horrible on the video. He admitted to some bad things in the marriage, but he came across as arrogant, defensive and evasive. I don't think he is nearly as smart as he thinks he is, or perhaps LE is not as dumb and bumbling as he thinks they are.

    I once read an adage that said if you commit a murder, you will likely remember only 5 of the 50 things that you forgot to cover up. Given the speed of the arrest, and the rapid award of custody to the non-parents and allowing the kids to be removed from the US also speaks volumes to SOMETHING that was presented to the court.

    CyberPro

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