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  1. #1
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    2011.03.07 Dorothy Sims Docs RE: Chloroform & Plant Growth *Merged*

    http://www.thehinkymeter.com/

    Courtesy of Val at HM.

  2. #2
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    kaRN is offline Verified Health Professional - Registered Nurse
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    I'm looking forward to DCSs reports. She mentioned 2 cases last week that sound fascinating. The first had something to do with Chloroform and Blood pressure, the second Fibromyalgia and trauma.
    Neither sounded like they related to this case at all but what do I know.

    Injustice for Caylee Marie Anthony.

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  3. #3
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    the "jest" of the motion:


    Can't wait to watch this one within the courtroom!
    “Hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succure vitae”– Giovanni Margagni

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by joypath View Post
    the "jest" of the motion:


    Can't wait to watch this one within the courtroom!
    What exactly are they saying?

  5. #5
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    http://www.wesh.com/pdf/27106293/det...=casey+updates

    The Defense's memorandum regarding cloroform in pdf format
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZsaZsa View Post
    What exactly are they saying?
    That's it..... gonna TRASH all the instruments in the laboratory (yeah, instruments vs "machines"!) since the defense gang in Fla rewritten the "rules"!

    PLEASE....SOMEBODY explain to the author of this motion that a concentration of an element (chemical) as measured within a standardized volume is considered a QUANTITATIVE ANALYSIS! The determination of the qualitative amount is within the language terms: trace, moderate, high, abundant, "a whole lotta stuff", or some other vernacular and is usually applied in conversation where ALL parties are speaking the same language......as in they acknowledge acceptable ranges, normal limits, published data points in scientific terminology!
    WOW......now the "nuts & bolts" workhorse GS/MS has been elevated to a level of predicting COD! Guess certain MEs will be out of jobs 'cause MOST I know utilize the generated data from laboratory instruments to ASSIST (if necessary) in the COD determination~
    WAIT......Barry "who never calls Baez" Logan, Ph. D. submitted a report 2/8/2011!!! (FYI....you use either Dr. or Ph.D/M.D/D.O. as a title but never BOTH!) and I want to READ it! Remember, Barry was suppose to be the DNA guy from NMS labs!and how "cute", remember the JA-JB "fight" over Dr. Logan's title....seems good ole Barry falls back to his FIRST love: CHEMISTRY by chatting about chlorine & H2O! (giggles....giggles......giggles)
    “Hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succure vitae”– Giovanni Margagni

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  7. #7
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    Overall, Ms. Sims has a pretty compelling argument (MOO). Wish it weren't so, but I find myself thinking the cloroform may indeed go out the window.

    Now, if they could only figure out what to do about those 31 days, and that pesky duct tape, and the lies, and

    well I guess I could go on and on but why bother, ya'll get the jist.
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  8. #8
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    They are seeking to argue that the volume or quantity of the chloroform cannot be measured by the equipment used and therefore it should not be allowed to be argued that chloroform played any role whatsoever in babygirls death. They are further arguing that since the amount of chloroform present was unable to be judged by this equipment and since chloroform can be explained by other means in trace amounts that the chloroform's mere presence is not substantive to what the state would like to imply it means.

    I actually don't think its a bad memo. You can certainly tell someone better than JB drafted it, lol.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlcox View Post
    They are seeking to argue that the volume or quantity of the chloroform cannot be measured by the equipment used and therefore it should not be allowed to be argued that chloroform played any role whatsoever in babygirls death. They are further arguing that since the amount of chloroform present was unable to be judged by this equipment and since chloroform can be explained by other means in trace amounts that the chloroform's mere presence is not substantive to what the state would like to imply it means.

    I actually don't think its a bad memo. You can certainly tell someone better than JB drafted it, lol.
    It's well written but I'm not sure it actually says much. I take my cue from Joypath who is giggling over it. If it makes her laugh, it makes me goNot to be oppositional but if the defense had a solid argument here, they would have submitted by deadline and not weeks after the fact IMO.

    Injustice for Caylee Marie Anthony.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by joypath View Post
    That's it..... gonna TRASH all the instruments in the laboratory (yeah, instruments vs "machines"!) since the defense gang in Fla rewritten the "rules"!

    PLEASE....SOMEBODY explain to the author of this motion that a concentration of an element (chemical) as measured within a standardized volume is considered a QUANTITATIVE ANALYSIS! The determination of the qualitative amount is within the language terms: trace, moderate, high, abundant, "a whole lotta stuff", or some other vernacular and is usually applied in conversation where ALL parties are speaking the same language......as in they acknowledge acceptable ranges, normal limits, published data points in scientific terminology!
    WOW......now the "nuts & bolts" workhorse GS/MS has been elevated to a level of predicting COD! Guess certain MEs will be out of jobs 'cause MOST I know utilize the generated data from laboratory instruments to ASSIST (if necessary) in the COD determination~
    WAIT......Barry "who never calls Baez" Logan, Ph. D. submitted a report 2/8/2011!!! (FYI....you use either Dr. or Ph.D/M.D/D.O. as a title but never BOTH!) and I want to READ it! Remember, Barry was suppose to be the DNA guy from NMS labs!and how "cute", remember the JA-JB "fight" over Dr. Logan's title....seems good ole Barry falls back to his FIRST love: CHEMISTRY by chatting about chlorine & H2O! (giggles....giggles......giggles)
    -----------

    [ame="http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=ie7&q=the+body+farm%2Fcaylee+antho ny&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7TSND_enUS406US406"]the body farm/caylee anthony - Google Search[/ame]


    ------------------
    An interesting read about the car,chloroform.
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    with my loved ones..xoxox


  11. #11
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    So...maybe George's affidavit has something to do with hauling pool products in Casey's car? We've been down this road...it wasn't pool chemicals.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaRN View Post
    It's well written but I'm not sure it actually says much. I take my cue from Joypath who is giggling over it. If it makes her laugh, it makes me goNot to be oppositional but if the defense had a solid argument here, they would have submitted by deadline and not weeks after the fact IMO.
    oh no, I don't see you as oppositional.

    I am not saying I agree with the defense's argument, simply saying, I was expecting more of a JB style motion (incomprehensible) and was surprised that its not a badly written memo by comparison. My unscientific brain considered it a pretty decent one. I cede to joypath's experience and knowledge. I was also making a point that even if they were to win this motion, I don't think the state's case hinges on the chloroform
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  13. #13
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    also courtesy of Valhall...

    http://www.thehinkymeter.com/Library...s6551_6591.pdf



    In briefly looking over the ORL findings... if I am reading this correctly, according to page 5 (paragraph right below Table 2) and Figure 7, the chloroform concentrations were detected in the ppm (parts per million) range, vs the typical ppt (parts per trillion) range which they state is characteristic of human decomp.

    I dont see how this can be obfuscated just because the defense fails to understand everyday lab methodology used to quantify/isolate VOC samples. Where are they getting that the chloroform was detected below quantification limits? If chloroform is typically detected in the ppt range, how can concentrations measured in the ppm range be below the detection limit?

    Also, natural attenuation research tells us that volatile organic compound (VOC) concentrations decrease over time when exposed to oxygen. Duh? This has been out there in (subsurface) environmental journals for at least a decade or two.

    Ergo, if constituent A is measured on Day 31 at say 10 ppm, then it was greater than 10 ppm on Day 1. But they dont have that Day 1 number, so the defense stand is that is a Frey issue?




  14. #14
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    Those were not "New Motions", the defense filed additional memorandum to support their original motions.

    First the defense filed these:
    http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/Hig...m%20(Frye).pdf

    http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/Hig...h%20(Frye).pdf

    Then the state filed these motions to strike the defense motions:

    http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/Hig...Chloroform.pdf

    http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/Hig...t%20Growth.pdf

    When this came up at the hearing Friday, atty Clay-Sims said she would file the memorandum by Noon on Monday. This is what Val is referring to.
    http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/Hig...Chloroform.pdf

    http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/Hig...t%20Growth.pdf

    The State has argued that these are not Frye issues as presented by the defense, yesterdays filings were intended to help their case, which as Val points out, they appear to have failed.
    My posts are my opinion only. Praying for Justice for Caylee Marie!
    The Florida Bar summed up the problem regarding Mr. Baez.
    "His overall behavior, they wrote, showed "a total lack of respect for the rights of others and a total lack of respect for the legal system, which is absolutely inconsistent with the character and fitness qualities required of those seeking to be afforded the highest position of trust and confidence recognized by our system of law." (Thank you to TWA) Read their opinion here: http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/d...ps/sc95855.pdf

  15. #15
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    2011.03.11 Dorothy Sims Docs RE: Chloroform & Plant Growth

    Cloroform- sent to judge 3/7/11 9:47 AM from Dorothy Sims, atty:
    http://www.wesh.com/pdf/27106293/det...k&utm_campaign

    Plant growth- sent to judge 3/7/11 2:24 AM from DS, atty:
    http://www.wesh.com/pdf/27106306/detail.html
    I tried to put these on the 2nd hearing day, when they were brought up, but that thread is closed. These are the written documents that follow up the handwritten note Sims hurredly wrote in open court and Baez signed. They are regarding the chloroform & plant growth issues.

    Mods feel free to move if needed.
    Last edited by Capri; 03-08-2011 at 01:29 PM.

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