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Thread: Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #2

  1. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by No_Stone_Unturned View Post
    Yes, I also am upset that these cases have not been solved. IF there is one perp for all of them (which I've often thought), it's all the more disturbing.

    I just thought of something - Audrey's Camaro would have been fitted with On Star and this allows police, ambulance, GM, friends, etc. to be able to track the car at all times. IF Audrey had been picked up whilst driving her car (and then told to drive home with the attacker) the police will be able to track all of Audrey's car trips through On Star. It will also tell when the car was last driven and to where.

    Question for PK: Did Audrey use On Star and her GPS frequently? Thanks.....
    how do you know her car had OnStar?

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  3. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotr View Post
    I suspect that perps (especially with oxycontin addictions)keep an eye out for the elderly or disabled as they exit pharmacies, so they can steal their medication on the spot, or watch and follow the potential victim to rob later .
    they absolutely do - there've been several robberies of the elderly where I live - one where the victim was in a wheelchair & the perp just grabbed his script and ran

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  5. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyL View Post
    how do you know her car had OnStar?
    Because I have a 'Vette and all GM vehicles are equipped with On Star. I believe it comes with the car - not as an added thing. (Could certainly be wrong, though. Perhaps Audrey decided to not bother with that.)

    Pardon my foolishness: you could be/are right - Audrey might NOT have chosen the On Star option. In my defense, I was thinking of 'Vettes which are very similar to Camaros. (One would think that a single, female driver would have On Star. But, my mistake........)
    Last edited by No_Stone_Unturned; 09-28-2011 at 05:09 PM. Reason: added info
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  7. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotr View Post
    "Gleave left the club a few years ago but the pair remained friends, visiting once or twice a week. Gleave attended a lot of the V family gatherings, such as Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter.

    V said she last saw Gleave Dec. 27.

    "She was here Boxing Day but was feeling under-the-weather," she said.

    "I took some soup out to her on Monday morning and that was the last time I saw her."


    Va said she was told by police investigators that Gleave had sent an e-mail to a friend on the night of Dec. 27.
    Just wanted this info reposted for posterity.
    http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/Art...ay.aspx?e=2913

    "She was an eccentric, eclectic individual and very private," Vanstone said. "Private in a very big way.

    "All of the times I visited her, I think I was only in her house once.

    "Usually, we sat on a bench outside the house where we would talk."

    Va said that Gleave always worried about strangers getting her e-mail address.

    "She said that Gleave was so private that she never mentioned that she had another friend in Brantford who lived in the same neighbourhood as V"



    "She was very much a recluse especially in the last few years".

    "She loved to talk about recipes, computers, cars, animals, Suduko, TV programs and other mind-boggling things that were over my head. She was unique, giving and a stickler for being on time."

    Among Gleave's friends were members of her Wednesday morning coffee group of retired teachers, V said.

    Gleave was an avid golfer with many golfing buddies, V said.

    Gleave lived for her two German Shepherds, her shopping trips to Costco (her favourite store) and summer drives in her racy Chevy Camaro, she added.

    "She loved her dogs but I never really trusted them," V said. "They were always kind of roaming around when I was there and when we sat and talked I didn't dare get up suddenly or make any quick movements."
    (Although this opinion seems to have been formed after only one visit- so I conclude that was why there was not another..)Also wondering about the fear of strangers getting her email.Could Ag be connected to a celebrity or fearful of organized crime?

    Also check comment 14 for unverified info about dogs.
    [bbm] my interpretation is that there were several visits but they sat outside and the dogs were roaming around outside ...

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  9. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by No_Stone_Unturned View Post
    Because I have a 'Vette and all GM vehicles are equipped with On Star. I believe it comes with the car - not as an added thing. (Could certainly be wrong, though. Perhaps Audrey decided to not bother with that.)

    Pardon my foolishness: you could be right - Audrey might NOT have chosen the On Star option. In my defense, I was thinking of 'Vettes which are very similar to Camaros. (One would think that a single, female driver would have On Star. But, my mistake........)
    if she had privacy concerns, which we've read about, I can see her having no interest in a tracking device, especially with all the bad press they've gotten lately

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  11. #581
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    Many thanks for correcting my mistakes and for enlightening me about Camaros!!

    Quoted from myself:

    Pardon my foolishness: you could be/are right - Audrey might NOT have chosen the On Star option. In my defense, I was thinking of 'Vettes which are very similar to Camaros. (One would think that a single, female driver would have On Star. But, my mistake........)
    Last edited by No_Stone_Unturned; 09-28-2011 at 05:10 PM. Reason: add a smilie!
    Seeking justice for Audrey Gleave
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  13. #582
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    Hey all, once again I must apologize for my absence, but here's what little I can offer on the questions that are buzzing around. Love you guys lots

    @ 1010011010
    - AG smoked 10-20 smokes per day
    - she would definitely smoke in the garage with the door up and (I believe, though I never saw her / asked about it) that she would smoke inside sometimes
    - I think she smoked Belmonts…. no 6N smokes as far as I know
    - Actually AG really liked stars and so it wasn't impossible for her to go outside extremely late at night for a smoke to look at the sky and let the dogs run
    - I can't think of a single time when I ever saw the garage door open with AG inside. She was extremely diligent at keeping it closed

    @ LilyMacBloom
    - thank you for so much great info (post 454)! Actually, for your interest, AG was fascinated with the CIA… I remember her reading memoirs of a CIA agent and she talked about the book for months… was really fascinated by the redacted portions. "Fair Game" I think was the name of the book? Makes me wonder if there was something more about her past she never mentioned

    @ No_Stone_Unturned
    - Honestly, there were so few pictures of AG… especially in her younger years. I can't ever recall seeing something that might indicate a child but that doesn't mean it is impossible.

    @ nicgumshoe
    - AG's response to a stranger arriving unannounced would vary by time of day. She might ignore them or use the dogs to try and scare them off but she did tell me stories of sitting door-to-door visitors on the bench and talking to them for hours on end… hehe

    @ shadowraiths (#464)
    - Yah… I'm sure lots of people are thinking that… can't really blame LE for checking me out (as difficult as it has been for my wife and I)

    @ No_Stone_Unturned (#477)
    - The garage was connected to the house by a door. I'm sorry I can't really comment on whether I think she was dragged out of the house… when LE had me revisit the garage after her body was removed to try and identify missing objects, I didn't see any streaks between the door to the house and where she was found

    @ roseofsharon (#504)
    - I can't quite remember the name of the company she bought it from but it was installed late in mid November. I remember she was pretty aggravated with the guy who came to install it because he had been rude to her. I'm not 100% sure how she paid but if I know Audrey it was with cash

    @ Hazel (#507 - re AG cancelling coffee)
    - Wow! I had missed this before but this is really perplexing me… why did she email me to tell me she was going??

    @ dotr (#520)
    - I'm not sure! (For obvious reasons) I didn't go inside the house so I'm not sure where the dogs were confined.

    @ dotr (#523)
    - Some quick info about the scheduling of time to drop off the cake. I had originally planned to visit AG on Christmas day but she had emailed me a day or two prior to call it off because she was so sick. So, on Christmas day I called her to check in and that's when we set the definite time to get together around 10am on Thursday for me to drop it off. I do find the timing of the vet visit to be an interesting open question…

    @ Hazel (#530)
    - Great point!!! When I was in the house a few days later (before the cleaning had started) it didn't seem like two dogs had been unattended in the house for any extended period of time!

    @ roseofsharon (#529)
    - Haha, even if the dogs knew the scent I would expect them to bark up a storm… every time I arrived they went wild

    @ Hazel (#537)
    - Nope… no way did Aud own a cellphone

    @ roseofsharon
    - I'm almost certain that Audrey didn't take any RX medications… She never mentioned it and I never saw any of the expected debris in the kitchen, bathroom, or bedroom

    @ sillybilly (#569)
    - You and me both! I think it was under two weeks for everything to be wrapped up… in my recollection the house was sold in under a month

    @ No_Stone_Unturned
    - I don't think AG had OnStar… I never rode in the Camaro…. whenever we were driving somewhere we would take my car but I have loaded/unloaded things for her and I don't remember seeing the "button"


  14. #583
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    I have to go back and look at the timeline because I forget some of it.

    Super, super long shot. Audrey had a friend she never mentioned to others, and they didn't even live that far apart from one of her dear friends, right? I've been wondering if (this is the super, super long shot part) Audrey had made plans with another friend not known about by anyone. This flies in the face of everything I've read about letting people into her house and her personality, but maybe she had offered to pick them up while they left their car in a parking lot. Maybe she even requested they leave their car elsewhere for privacy reasons. Obviously she loved her car, so she didn't view the driving as an inconvenience.

    This person would have to be someone she knew really well, and I think they would have to have shared a common interest/interests. The driving part is due to the fact that she was found in the garage, fully clothed as if she had planned to be outdoors. Could this person, motivated by some unknown revenge, planned it with someone else so that, after murdering her, there was a plan to be picked up? Could they have murdered her shortly after returning to her home, hence the reason she was found in the garage? Or maybe they had made it into the house, just long enough for Audrey to confine the dogs and then they struck? I don't know why she would've been found in the garage in this unlikely scenario, but hey. Further, could this be someone well known to the dogs? It just seems like it would've been very tough to commit the murder and then make the trek back to wherever they came from. Walking would have been a huge pain, in my opinion.

    I believe close to nothing about what I wrote above, but it's something that's been in my head for the last little while and I had to get it out. I mean, if the car had been used recently, wouldn't the police have been able to perform some sort of test to see when it was last used?

    Okay, I'm done being ridiculous.

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  16. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinsmapj View Post
    Hey all, once again I must apologize for my absence, but here's what little I can offer on the questions that are buzzing around. Love you guys lots

    @ 1010011010
    - AG smoked 10-20 smokes per day
    - she would definitely smoke in the garage with the door up and (I believe, though I never saw her / asked about it) that she would smoke inside sometimes
    - I think she smoked Belmonts…. no 6N smokes as far as I know
    - Actually AG really liked stars and so it wasn't impossible for her to go outside extremely late at night for a smoke to look at the sky and let the dogs run
    - I can't think of a single time when I ever saw the garage door open with AG inside. She was extremely diligent at keeping it closed

    @ LilyMacBloom
    - thank you for so much great info (post 454)! Actually, for your interest, AG was fascinated with the CIA… I remember her reading memoirs of a CIA agent and she talked about the book for months… was really fascinated by the redacted portions. "Fair Game" I think was the name of the book? Makes me wonder if there was something more about her past she never mentionedInteresting.

    @ No_Stone_Unturned
    - Honestly, there were so few pictures of AG… especially in her younger years. I can't ever recall seeing something that might indicate a child but that doesn't mean it is impossible.Good, thanks.

    @ nicgumshoe
    - AG's response to a stranger arriving unannounced would vary by time of day. She might ignore them or use the dogs to try and scare them off but she did tell me stories of sitting door-to-door visitors on the bench and talking to them for hours on end… hehe

    @ shadowraiths (#464)
    - Yah… I'm sure lots of people are thinking that… can't really blame LE for checking me out (as difficult as it has been for my wife and I)Indeed, it must be difficult for you guys!

    @ No_Stone_Unturned (#477)
    - The garage was connected to the house by a door. I'm sorry I can't really comment on whether I think she was dragged out of the house… when LE had me revisit the garage after her body was removed to try and identify missing objects, I didn't see any streaks between the door to the house and where she was foundThanks!

    @ roseofsharon (#504)
    - I can't quite remember the name of the company she bought it from but it was installed late in mid November. I remember she was pretty aggravated with the guy who came to install it because he had been rude to her. I'm not 100% sure how she paid but if I know Audrey it was with cash

    @ Hazel (#507 - re AG cancelling coffee)
    - Wow! I had missed this before but this is really perplexing me… why did she email me to tell me she was going??Still perplexing for ME as well!

    @ dotr (#520)
    - I'm not sure! (For obvious reasons) I didn't go inside the house so I'm not sure where the dogs were confined.

    @ dotr (#523)
    - Some quick info about the scheduling of time to drop off the cake. I had originally planned to visit AG on Christmas day but she had emailed me a day or two prior to call it off because she was so sick. So, on Christmas day I called her to check in and that's when we set the definite time to get together around 10am on Thursday for me to drop it off. I do find the timing of the vet visit to be an interesting open question…

    @ Hazel (#530)
    - Great point!!! When I was in the house a few days later (before the cleaning had started) it didn't seem like two dogs had been unattended in the house for any extended period of time!Was this usual for her to do?

    @ roseofsharon (#529)
    - Haha, even if the dogs knew the scent I would expect them to bark up a storm… every time I arrived they went wild

    @ Hazel (#537)
    - Nope… no way did Aud own a cellphone

    @ roseofsharon
    - I'm almost certain that Audrey didn't take any RX medications… She never mentioned it and I never saw any of the expected debris in the kitchen, bathroom, or bedroom

    @ sillybilly (#569)
    - You and me both! I think it was under two weeks for everything to be wrapped up… in my recollection the house was sold in under a month

    @ No_Stone_Unturned
    - I don't think AG had OnStar… I never rode in the Camaro…. whenever we were driving somewhere we would take my car but I have loaded/unloaded things for her and I don't remember seeing the "button"Thanks!!
    Copied from PK so I can add more (!!!!!!!!) questions when I think of them!!

    Also, my comments are contained within/beside PK's responses!
    Seeking justice for Audrey Gleave
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  18. #585
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    PK responded to roseofsharon:

    - I'm almost certain that Audrey didn't take any RX medications… She never mentioned it and I never saw any of the expected debris in the kitchen, bathroom, or bedroom


    So from what I gather here is that Audrey 'allowed' you (for lack of a better phrase) to really use her house fully. She had no qualms about you (a male) seeing her bedroom. And, of course, you would have to use the bathroom.

    Questions: Did Audrey have just one bathroom or was there a powder room as well? And also, since you don't think Audrey was prescribed any medications -do you find that odd? Was she fearful of medical doctors/their methods?

    What I'm trying to say is that by the age of 73, any person would be taking some medications - blood pressure, arthritis, all the stuff that comes with the aging process.
    Seeking justice for Audrey Gleave
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    *ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN OPINIONS UNLESS I GIVE A LINK OR REFER TO OTHERS*
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    “The inspiration you seek is already inside you. Be silent and listen." ~ Rumi

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  20. #586
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    Fair Game

    The book PK mentioned:

    Fair Game: How a Top CIA Agent Was Betrayed by Her Own Government [Paperback] Valerie Plame Wilson (Author)

    Is it possible that the CIA approached AG during/before or shortly after her Chalk River stint??

    From Wikipedia: The primary function of the CIA is to collect information about foreign governments, corporations, and individuals, and to advise public policymakers.

    Thus her interest in this book?
    ...

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  22. #587
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    Hi kinsmapj - so glad you have been able to post information to help people understand Audrey and what happened to her.

    Did Audrey have any sort of mechanical lifting device in her house to help her get around? Stair-chair, something to help her in and out of bed etc? I'm wondering if this had anything to do with not inviting people inside.

    Was the oven installation the 1 new service person you mentioned previously?

    Have been following this thread since reading the recent Spec series on Audrey and what happened to her - many great points and ideas.

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  24. #588
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    Woodland

    Seeking justice for Audrey Gleave
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  26. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by eachandevery View Post
    I have to go back and look at the timeline because I forget some of it.

    Super, super long shot. Audrey had a friend she never mentioned to others, and they didn't even live that far apart from one of her dear friends, right? I've been wondering if (this is the super, super long shot part) Audrey had made plans with another friend not known about by anyone. This flies in the face of everything I've read about letting people into her house and her personality, but maybe she had offered to pick them up while they left their car in a parking lot. Maybe she even requested they leave their car elsewhere for privacy reasons. Obviously she loved her car, so she didn't view the driving as an inconvenience.

    This person would have to be someone she knew really well, and I think they would have to have shared a common interest/interests. The driving part is due to the fact that she was found in the garage, fully clothed as if she had planned to be outdoors. Could this person, motivated by some unknown revenge, planned it with someone else so that, after murdering her, there was a plan to be picked up? Could they have murdered her shortly after returning to her home, hence the reason she was found in the garage? Or maybe they had made it into the house, just long enough for Audrey to confine the dogs and then they struck? I don't know why she would've been found in the garage in this unlikely scenario, but hey. Further, could this be someone well known to the dogs? It just seems like it would've been very tough to commit the murder and then make the trek back to wherever they came from. Walking would have been a huge pain, in my opinion.

    I believe close to nothing about what I wrote above, but it's something that's been in my head for the last little while and I had to get it out. I mean, if the car had been used recently, wouldn't the police have been able to perform some sort of test to see when it was last used?

    Okay, I'm done being ridiculous.
    There's a story in the memory section of the funeral home website from a friend named Lori V. Has this person come up anywhere? I have researched and she does not have the same last name as the other LV.

    http://beckettglaves.frontrunnerpro....536&LinkId=283

    A couple of nice pictures of AG and her car on there too.

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  28. #590
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    Just thought of another question for PK:

    Did Audrey walk her dogs? They wouldn't necessarily need to be on leashes since her house was so near to wooded areas. OR, did the dogs walk out to the mailbox with Audrey in order to get a bit of exercise and as company for Audrey?

    Thanks!!

    --------------------

    ETA: Someone above (eachandevery I think) said they posted a ridiculous thing. Well, I'm going to join the 'ricidulous' crowd with this added thought!

    Did Audrey have a romantic meeting on the night she was killed? PLEASE NOTE - I am not blaming the victim. I'm merely trying to help solve this crime! I'm thinking that she might have met someone who had the same qualities she had - scientific, highly intelligent, could discuss the topics Audrey loved, a tad lonely for like-minded people, etc. But (somehow) this person turned angry enough to kill.

    Am I completely nuts here or is this remotely possible? I know - anything is possible.
    Last edited by No_Stone_Unturned; 09-29-2011 at 12:10 PM. Reason: added a perhaps ridiculous notion
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  30. #591
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    I've heard it said, that clashes between dog owners over dogs, can be more intense than parents clashing over children...For that matter, plenty of people (responsible dog-owners and non-dog owners alike), do not want some dog" messing" on their property....
    I suppose the ultimate sadistic act of cruelty to a dog and it's master, would be to confine and make one helpless, whilst hurting the other...

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  32. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotr View Post
    I've heard it said, that clashes between dog owners over dogs, can be more intense than parents clashing over children...For that matter, plenty of people (responsible dog-owners and non-dog owners alike), do not want some dog" messing" on their property....
    I suppose the ultimate sadistic act of cruelty to a dog and it's master, would be to confine and make one helpless, whilst hurting the other...
    I understand that AG had an electronic fence around her property for the dogs so I don't think they ever left the property except for in the car to the vet.

    MOO

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  34. #593
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    Did someone get carried away watching a film.....

    http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...tory-continues
    In 2007, Hollywood came to Indian Trail to film scenes for a B-list movie called Cyborg Soldier. Audrey delighted in having her picture taken with the movie co-star, Tiffani Thiessen, known to pop-culture junkies for playing teenage roles in the TV shows Saved By The Bell and Beverly Hills 90210
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N0hC5QnmM4"]CYBORG SOLDIER - Trailer - YouTube[/ame]

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  36. #594
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    Eyeglasses

    • Did Audrey wear eyeglasses all the time, or just for reading and driving?
    • Where her eyeglasses found at the crime scene?


    I don't even know WHY I'm asking this, it is obviously irrelevant, only that she doesn't have eyeglasses on in all the pictures.



    Source for pics: http://beckettglaves.frontrunnerpro....536&LinkId=282

    ETA: OMG dotr!! I believe our thoughts are somehow connected! What are the chances we were both thinking of that movie at the exact same time!!! You must be my long lost twin THANKS so much for that link, you just answered one of my questions
    My posts are merely my humble opinion. Unless you are quoting within Websleuths Forums, you do not have my permission to copy nor use any post made by me for anything.
    ★ Thank you ★

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  38. #595
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    Lightbulb

    It doesn't look like a pack of smokes to me. Rather, it looks like a white box with a lid on it - like a medium-sized jewellry box perhaps.

    And wow, that's a hotter car than I'd originally thought. I believe (could be wrong of course!!) it's what used to be called a Z28 with a V-8 engine.
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  40. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotr View Post
    Did someone get carried away watching a film.....

    http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...tory-continues
    In 2007, Hollywood came to Indian Trail to film scenes for a B-list movie called Cyborg Soldier. Audrey delighted in having her picture taken with the movie co-star, Tiffani Thiessen, known to pop-culture junkies for playing teenage roles in the TV shows Saved By The Bell and Beverly Hills 90210
    CYBORG SOLDIER - Trailer - YouTube
    for the film clip!! I never knew which film was being shot near Audrey's house. Indeed - did someone want to make the film become reality? Good point!
    Seeking justice for Audrey Gleave
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  42. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotr View Post
    I've heard it said, that clashes between dog owners over dogs, can be more intense than parents clashing over children...For that matter, plenty of people (responsible dog-owners and non-dog owners alike), do not want some dog" messing" on their property....
    I suppose the ultimate sadistic act of cruelty to a dog and it's master, would be to confine and make one helpless, whilst hurting the other...
    Could someone please explain what this invisible fence is all about? Would that INVISIBLE FENCE also prevent strangers from trespassing, or only work for A's dogs because of the collars with transmitters? I guess I just answered my own question
    ... Togi and Schatze (a short form of Schatzen, which was German for “treasure,” she said). She had an invisible fence installed; the dogs wore collars with transmitters that kept them inside the boundaries.
    One more thing to add to Audrey's list of weekly activities:
    She visited the local Lynden library at least once a week, but most of her time was spent alone in the house on Indian Trail with her dogs, Togi and Schatze ....
    Did Audrey spoke German? Was she fluent or did she just know a few words?

    http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...tory-continues
    My posts are merely my humble opinion. Unless you are quoting within Websleuths Forums, you do not have my permission to copy nor use any post made by me for anything.
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  44. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazel View Post
    Could someone please explain what this invisible fence is all about? Would that INVISIBLE FENCE also prevent strangers from trespassing, or only work for A's dogs because of the collars with transmitters? I guess I just answered my own question


    Yes you did answer your own question partially.

    The transmitter is located in the house and their is a receiver in the collar.

    You can adjust the area that you will allow your dogs to go in.

    Have no control over humans unless they also had a collar on and tried to leave the area.

    Once outside the area they get a shock.

    The dogs learn pretty quick what their boundery is

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  46. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valleyboy View Post
    Yes you did answer your own question partially.

    The transmitter is located in the house and their is a receiver in the collar.

    You can adjust the area that you will allow your dogs to go in.

    Have no control over humans unless they also had a collar on and tried to leave the area.

    Once outside the area they get a shock.

    The dogs learn pretty quick what their boundery is
    Wouldn't it also work if the dogs/humans were outside the property (with collars on), and tried to get in the area? My question is just out of curiosity -- it obviously has absolutely no practical use
    My posts are merely my humble opinion. Unless you are quoting within Websleuths Forums, you do not have my permission to copy nor use any post made by me for anything.
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  48. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazel View Post
    Wouldn't it also work if the dogs/humans were outside the property (with collars on), and tried to get in the area? My question is just out of curiosity -- it obviously has absolutely no practical use


    If they were outside the property then they would continue to get a shock until they came back inside the boundery

    Once the battery dies in the collar the dog can go outside without getting a shock.

    Our dog as long as he has his collar on he stays in the yard even when we don't turn on the transmitter.

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