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Thread: Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #2

  1. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotr View Post
    If the perp did not have a gun to use as a weapon, a knife would have been too risky to use to attack the dogs without getting bitten. If they did bite, I am sure a big chunk of the perp's DNA would remain with the dogs, whether they were killed or not.
    Now this goes back to WHY the dogs were left unharmed. Perhaps the killer was someone familiar to the dogs - this person went over to pet them, say 'hello', etc. in order to make AG feel at ease letting this person into her home.And then this scenario would bring us back to AG having an affair with someone as suggested in another post.

    ETA: Have any of you wondered WHY AG wouldn't let friends/visitors into her home? From what I've read (could be wrong) AG always sat with people OUTDOORS on a bench.
    Last edited by No_Stone_Unturned; 07-31-2011 at 12:24 PM. Reason: added a thought
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  3. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missizzy View Post
    Just going back over a few things. I found this comment by Ms. Gleave's former husband strange, given what we've read:

    http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/ar...-area-homicide

    "She was protective of her private life because she lived alone, AG said. “She was obviously very, very intelligent. Probably her biggest passion was cooking. She’d try anything,” AG added...."

    more at link


    I happen to be the mother of three professional chefs/bakers. One thing I've learned about them is that they like to cook their own food. They enjoy collecting recipes but they are all quite picky about eating what others prepare.

    We've read again and again that LV brought soup and that PK brought a special cake....one made from a recipe which came from AG. Why wouldn't Ms. Gleave be cooking her own food? Most people are intimidated about bringing a food gift to a person known to be passionate about cooking.
    IIRC, the handyman's new wife AK was a pastry chef (or studying to become one??). The original plan was to bring the cake prior to AG becoming ill. Maybe the cake was made from AG's recipe to have AG's critique on it.

    From her mom's obituary, I get the impression that LV is unmarried. When AG was at LV's on Boxing Day, I wonder if there were other family and friends there as well, possibly other singles ... others who met AG and became aware of where she lived and that she was not feeling well.

    There is that one photo of LV and AG both dressed in red, looking healthy and happy. I guess we don't know if that picture was taken during the 2010 holiday season, but presumably someone else was taking the picture.

    ETA: Photo is probably irrelevant ... apparently it was taken "a few Christmases ago":

    http://www.torontosun.com/news/canad.../16748161.html
    Last edited by sillybilly; 07-31-2011 at 05:12 PM. Reason: ETA: re photo

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  5. #178
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    I need to clarify something. I used the initials AG to denote Ms. Gleave's former husband. He happens to have the same initials. We have to use initials for him as he's considered "uninvolved". We are free to use the full name, Audrey Gleave, on this thread as she is the victim of a crime, however. Just don't want anyone confused.

    I do remember PK's wife being a pastry chef--I believe at a local coffee shop. I wonder if it was also where Ms. Gleave met her friends. That was in one of the early videos or articles. I still don't know why she would prepare something that Ms. Gleave enjoyed and presumably knew how to make, rather than to make another treat.

    One think I've yet to see addressed is whether PK was allowed access to the dogs. He worked on the property doing repairs and planting flowerbeds (by his description). I don't recall him mentioning the issue of the dogs. Does anyone? In looking at the photos of the house, I've often wondered just what all he did. There didn't seem to be extensive landscaping and yet he spoke of working hard all day while Ms. Gleave scientifically described the plants.

    Did he do repairs inside the home? If so, were the dogs allowed free roam? How did he enter the home when he found Ms. Gleave dead? IIRC, reports said that he entered the home....rather than the garage. I've never quite understood how LE discounted him as a possible POI within the first 24 hours or so. They obviously also discounted LV as she was allowed free access to the home and Ms. Gleave's possessions.

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  7. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missizzy View Post
    I do remember PK's wife being a pastry chef--I believe at a local coffee shop. I wonder if it was also where Ms. Gleave met her friends. That was in one of the early videos or articles. I still don't know why she would prepare something that Ms. Gleave enjoyed and presumably knew how to make, rather than to make another treat.

    One think I've yet to see addressed is whether PK was allowed access to the dogs. He worked on the property doing repairs and planting flowerbeds (by his description). I don't recall him mentioning the issue of the dogs. Does anyone? In looking at the photos of the house, I've often wondered just what all he did. There didn't seem to be extensive landscaping and yet he spoke of working hard all day while Ms. Gleave scientifically described the plants.

    Did he do repairs inside the home? If so, were the dogs allowed free roam? How did he enter the home when he found Ms. Gleave dead? IIRC, reports said that he entered the home....rather than the garage. I've never quite understood how LE discounted him as a possible POI within the first 24 hours or so. They obviously also discounted LV as she was allowed free access to the home and Ms. Gleave's possessions.
    <rsbm>

    I believe AG's coffee klatch was at Williams Fresh Restaurant (Cafe?) and seem to recall that AK worked at Starbucks.

    I have also wondered how and why PK entered the house when he would not have known whether the dogs were confined or not. I would be interested in knowing what entrance he used, and if the garage door was open or closed. If it was closed and you were knocking on another door and there was no answer, one would normally assume that AG was unavailable or indisposed, or possibly out with friends. WHY would he enter the home when AG didn't answer the door? If the garage door was open and her car was there, but there was some visible sign of struggle in the garage, he should still have been concerned about the dogs attacking him (unless they were okay with his presence). Did he have a cell phone whereby he contacted police? If so, most people would call 911 and wait for police to arrive. He would have no way of knowing if a perp was still in the home.

    I don't think we know that he actually entered the house. If AG was found in the garage, then the sign of struggle would have been the horrific scene that LE made reference to. So, maybe PK didn't go in the house at all and the garage door was in fact open and the crime scene in full view.

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  9. #180
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    I also have been wondering how PK entered the house! The only thing that comes to mind is that the killer fled quickly, leaving the doors and garage door open. His/her fleeing in a rush would account for the neighbour's dogs barking at 2.30am if they heard someone running/rushing through their property.

    Obviously, the killer didn't leave the house quietly and go to the main roadway to escape.

    Thoughts??

    ETA from sillybilly: I don't think we know that he actually entered the house. If AG was found in the garage, then the sign of struggle would have been the horrific scene that LE made reference to. So, maybe PK didn't go in the house at all and the garage door was in fact open and the crime scene in full view.

    You know, about the garage door being left open makes this crime even worse, I think. It would be like the perp saying - 'See what AG deserved'. Just ungodly.......
    Last edited by No_Stone_Unturned; 08-01-2011 at 08:54 AM. Reason: added a quote
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  11. #181
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    .believe AG's coffee klatch was at Williams Fresh Restaurant (Cafe?) and seem to recall that AK worked at Starbucks.
    Williams is directly across the street from Mcmaster Hospital/University. There is a Starbucks in the Hospital.

    I have a billion questions about PK but I'm not sure about sleuthing someone cleared. I am not saying he did it but he knows so much more than we do.

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  13. #182
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    I also have many questions about PK. Do we know the following:

    - did PK have a key to AG's house ( many handymen do have keys, my neighbour's handyman has a key)

    Now, speaking of KEYS - did anyone have a key to AG's house in case of illness, no response, leaving the newspaper out, etc. We have a key to the elderly woman who lives next door just for security/illness reasons/to care for her cats in case of illness,etc.
    Last edited by No_Stone_Unturned; 08-01-2011 at 11:07 AM. Reason: spelling correction
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  15. #183
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    Question:
    Why are we thinking her coffee group met at Starbucks The reason I ask is that the one photo posted of her with a white Camaro was outside a Tim Hortons.

    My take on AG was that she was a recipe buff. Not a gourmet cook. If you are a wanna-be chef, then I think you'd be cooking and entertaining. It's sort of hard gourmet cooking for one. Unless, perhaps, it was sweets that was her passion, which everyone knows you can eat all day long (speaking from experience here)

    I also have been wondering about the gardens and "plantings" as in all the photos/aerials/and my own drive by I haven't seen ANY gardens. Not to say there aren't any down by the ponds (which I haven't seen any photos of) There is also the possibility that she and PK were identifying wild flora and fona, which would make more sense to me. Since there seems to be lots of grass to cut and or brush to clear up, windows to wash, driveway to clear. That's my definition of "handy man" was for PK. I also find it hard to beleive he would have a key, AG is too private I think for that and since they clearly enjoyed each others company I get the impression PK was there as much to visit as to handy man.

    I'm sticking with (as per my friend) AG was found in the garage. I think the perp never entered the house. MOO.
    ...

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  17. #184
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    Just being devil's advocate here - I'd think that anyone (even a very private person) in their '70's would have given a key just in case of death, etc. In AG's case, I believe she'd have given a key to someone she could trust in order to save/feed/protect the dogs. But, I certainly could be very wrong.
    Last edited by No_Stone_Unturned; 08-01-2011 at 12:09 PM. Reason: spelling correction
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  19. #185
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    I think if anyone had a key it would have been LV since she was executor.
    ...

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  21. #186
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    Perhaps a nasty "scene" was staged for PK to discover...

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  23. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotr View Post
    Perhaps a nasty "scene" was staged for PK to discover...
    Yes, perhaps - but wouldn't that imply that PK was also a 'victim' here. Unless someone held a grudge against anyone who was helping AG with her household chores??????? But WHY.........
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  25. #188
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    Apologies for two in a row. I have many questions:

    - what do we really know about PK and his wife (handyman & chef)
    - how far away from AG do they live
    - have LE investigated the PK family fully
    - do LE simply assume that PK's finger prints are everywhere because we was the handyman
    - did PK or his wife ever drive the Camaro (for servicing, etc.)

    Thoughts/Replies?
    Seeking justice for Audrey Gleave
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    *ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN OPINIONS UNLESS I GIVE A LINK OR REFER TO OTHERS*
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  27. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilyMacBloom View Post
    Question:
    Why are we thinking her coffee group met at Starbucks The reason I ask is that the one photo posted of her with a white Camaro was outside a Tim Hortons.

    My take on AG was that she was a recipe buff. Not a gourmet cook. If you are a wanna-be chef, then I think you'd be cooking and entertaining. It's sort of hard gourmet cooking for one. Unless, perhaps, it was sweets that was her passion, which everyone knows you can eat all day long (speaking from experience here)

    I also have been wondering about the gardens and "plantings" as in all the photos/aerials/and my own drive by I haven't seen ANY gardens. Not to say there aren't any down by the ponds (which I haven't seen any photos of) There is also the possibility that she and PK were identifying wild flora and fona, which would make more sense to me. Since there seems to be lots of grass to cut and or brush to clear up, windows to wash, driveway to clear. That's my definition of "handy man" was for PK. I also find it hard to beleive he would have a key, AG is too private I think for that and since they clearly enjoyed each others company I get the impression PK was there as much to visit as to handy man.

    I'm sticking with (as per my friend) AG was found in the garage. I think the perp never entered the house. MOO.
    Might have been my wording Lily ... AG's group did meet at Williams Fresh, but it was a separate thought about AK working at Starbucks. Was just putting out some miscellaneous tidbits that we may have forgotten about, and didn't mean to insinuate that AG went to Starbucks.

    IF the perp never entered the house, then why were the dogs confined in another room? Also, we have discussed whether AG might have confined the dogs at nighttime, but we don't know whether she was killed at night or during the daytime. IF she was killed in the daytime, then I can see absolutely no reason that a dog-lover would confine the dogs while in the house with the owner UNLESS AG was expecting someone. If I lived in a remote area and was inside the house while suspecting some unknown person was in the garage, the first thing I would do is make sure the dogs were not confined.

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  29. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by No_Stone_Unturned View Post
    Apologies for two in a row. I have many questions:

    - what do we really know about PK and his wife (handyman & chef)
    - how far away from AG do they live
    - have LE investigated the PK family fully
    - do LE simply assume that PK's finger prints are everywhere because we was the handyman
    - did PK or his wife ever drive the Camaro (for servicing, etc.)

    Thoughts/Replies?
    Just some info from previous research .. PK's grandparents are religious (gpa is a pastor, and gpa and gma have been interviewed together on a well-known televangelist-type show). While PK has some other relatives with the K surname on his FB account, and some with the same surname as the grandparents, I don't see a mom or dad (B & J) showing up on his FB friends list. The other Ks on his FB list, who I believe could be his siblings, don't seem to have mom or dad listed either. Maybe mom and dad separated, and mom remarried thus a different surname ... dunno.

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  31. #191
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    Sorry for 3 in a row, but at least i'm not interrupting

    AK now lists a different employer that is a financial MLM company, one of their products being term life insurance.

    We know AG had a will, but this made me wonder if AG had any life insurance

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  33. #192
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    Thinking of angry young men...
    http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/ar...n-t-stay-clean
    "Wilkinson’s boyfriend, Burns, said Wilkinson was killed after the couple caught a ride to Oakville from a man they met outside the Wesley Centre in downtown Hamilton.

    When they arrived in Oakville, the couple didn’t feel comfortable and the man insisted he’d drive them back home. Part way back, Burns said the man changed his mind, pulled over, and tried to kick them out by the side of the highway. Burns said he jumped out to try and make sure that didn’t happen.

    But when he tried to get back in the car, the driver sped off with Wilkinson still in the back. Burns tried to chase them down the QEW. He tried to wave down cars for help.

    Burns said he saw the man hit Wilkinson repeatedly in the face before they sped out of view. By the time he caught up, the car was gone and his fiancée was lying on the road.

    Ontario Provincial Police have charged 32-year-old Billy Gladysz of Oakville with second-degree murder in connection with Wilkinson’s death"

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  35. #193
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    Just a quick note before I close it down for the night. I think we're treading in dangerous waters, sleuthing someone who has been officially cleared. I, for one, do not want to be banned. I have many many questions but have a feeling that if this goes any further, we'll lose our whole thread. I sure wouldn't want that to happen.

    But some very important questions have been posed. Ones I know we've all been pondering.

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  37. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missizzy View Post
    Just a quick note before I close it down for the night. I think we're treading in dangerous waters, sleuthing someone who has been officially cleared. I, for one, do not want to be banned. I have many many questions but have a feeling that if this goes any further, we'll lose our whole thread. I sure wouldn't want that to happen.

    But some very important questions have been posed. Ones I know we've all been pondering.
    Agreed! I think we all just want the killer to be caught. But, you make a very good point here!
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  39. #195
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    Sorry for posting two in a row. A few questions came to mind whilst out shopping:

    - who all came to AG's house (plumbers, painters, mechanics to pick up and return car, etc.)
    - did AG have any run-ins with the people who frequented the cemetery (ie. did they perhaps use her property while the dogs were out)
    - did the computer person encounter AG and the dogs when he/she came to set up the computer system (we only have had computers in our homes since about the late '90's/early '20's)
    - to whom did AG regulary send e-mails

    So many questions........

    Quoted from Lilly:

    IF the perp never entered the house, then why were the dogs confined in another room? Also, we have discussed whether AG might have confined the dogs at nighttime, but we don't know whether she was killed at night or during the daytime. IF she was killed in the daytime, then I can see absolutely no reason that a dog-lover would confine the dogs while in the house with the owner UNLESS AG was expecting someone. If I lived in a remote area and was inside the house while suspecting some unknown person was in the garage, the first thing I would do is make sure the dogs were not confined.


    Interesting point. I think it's obvious that the perp entered to house late at night (remember, the neighbour's dogs raised a fuss at about 2.30 am). The only reason I can see to confine the dogs at daytime would be if the vet was coming to do some grooming and give them shots, meds.

    ----------------------------------------------

    Just found this on Twitter - could it be related to AG and SV?

    UPDATE: South Simcoe Police now say 27 yr old Dawn Bailey, who was found dead in burned out home in Innisfil on wknd, was stabbed to death.
    Last edited by No_Stone_Unturned; 08-03-2011 at 12:59 PM. Reason: added a quote
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  41. #196
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    Wow, more angry young men in Hamilton..
    The Hamilton Spectator
    Wed Aug 3 2011

    Police hunt man in assault, home invasion

    WANTED Police seek public's help locating Anthony Sears

    Hamilton police are looking for a man wanted for a serious assault and a home invasion robbery.

    Anthony Sears, 24, is considered dangerous and anyone who encounters him should call 911.

    http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/ar...-home-invasion

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  43. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by No_Stone_Unturned View Post
    Sorry for posting two in a row. A few questions came to mind whilst out shopping:

    - who all came to AG's house (plumbers, painters, mechanics to pick up and return car, etc.)
    - did AG have any run-ins with the people who frequented the cemetery (ie. did they perhaps use her property while the dogs were out)
    - did the computer person encounter AG and the dogs when he/she came to set up the computer system (we only have had computers in our homes since about the late '90's/early '20's)
    - to whom did AG regulary send e-mails

    So many questions........

    Quoted from Lilly:

    IF the perp never entered the house, then why were the dogs confined in another room? Also, we have discussed whether AG might have confined the dogs at nighttime, but we don't know whether she was killed at night or during the daytime. IF she was killed in the daytime, then I can see absolutely no reason that a dog-lover would confine the dogs while in the house with the owner UNLESS AG was expecting someone. If I lived in a remote area and was inside the house while suspecting some unknown person was in the garage, the first thing I would do is make sure the dogs were not confined.


    Interesting point. I think it's obvious that the perp entered to house late at night (remember, the neighbour's dogs raised a fuss at about 2.30 am). The only reason I can see to confine the dogs at daytime would be if the vet was coming to do some grooming and give them shots, meds.

    ----------------------------------------------

    Just found this on Twitter - could it be related to AG and SV?

    UPDATE: South Simcoe Police now say 27 yr old Dawn Bailey, who was found dead in burned out home in Innisfil on wknd, was stabbed to death.
    http://www.torontosun.com/2011/08/03...f-murdering-ex
    "Ryan Kovacs, 27, of Bradford, Ont., is charged with first-degree murder, break and enter with intent to commit an indictable offence, and two counts of arson.

    Friends of Bailey's say she dated Kovacs for a short time last year."

    ( If this link is the same person, he is blonde and works in construction!)
    http://www.wayn.com/profiles/115731
    Last edited by dotr; 08-03-2011 at 02:33 PM.

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  45. #198
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    Hmm... it is interesting to have one's own life speculated about.

    Quote Originally Posted by sillybilly View Post
    Just some info from previous research .. PK's grandparents are religious (gpa is a pastor, and gpa and gma have been interviewed together on a well-known televangelist-type show). While PK has some other relatives with the K surname on his FB account, and some with the same surname as the grandparents, I don't see a mom or dad (B & J) showing up on his FB friends list. The other Ks on his FB list, who I believe could be his siblings, don't seem to have mom or dad listed either. Maybe mom and dad separated, and mom remarried thus a different surname ... dunno.
    FYI, my parents are happily married... just FB illiterate

    Quote Originally Posted by No_Stone_Unturned View Post
    Apologies for two in a row. I have many questions:

    - what do we really know about PK and his wife (handyman & chef)
    - how far away from AG do they live
    - have LE investigated the PK family fully
    - do LE simply assume that PK's finger prints are everywhere because we was the handyman
    - did PK or his wife ever drive the Camaro (for servicing, etc.)

    Thoughts/Replies?
    Not sure what I can tell you about myself but I will say that:
    - at the time of her passing my wife and I lived approx 25 minute drive from bary in west Hamilton
    - LE has certainly investigated me thoroughly, though they have had limited interest in my family
    - No, neither my wife nor I drove bary's Camero

    Cheers,
    -PK

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  47. #199
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    kinsmapj--Welcome to Websleuths. I just wish it didn't have to be under these circumstances. You'll find that much is speculated about here on the thread but I do believe that since you have been officially ruled out by LE, you will not be further discussed.

    Please accept my condolences for the loss of your friend. As the mother of 8 victims of crime, I know all too well how difficult and uncomfortable it is to be pulled into the vortex of an investigation. I'm very sorry for your pain.

    If you care to post, we'd enjoy hearing from you. If you do not wish to, I think everyone will fully understand. I believe that everyone on board has the best intentions and is simply trying to solve the mystery of who would kill this special woman.

    Once again, welcome.


    Just a quick reminder, if a person is somewhat involved in an investigation or a close friend or family member of a victim, they are supposed to send Tricia, the owner of WS, an email of notification that they are on board.

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  49. #200
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    7,864
    I second the WELCOME kinsmapj !! ... and certainly echo MissIzzy's comments about how it sucks to be on the periphery of any such situation. Glad you are here to help with anything you can share as it relates to the loss of your dear friend Audrey.

    Like many others here, I have lost children AND both my mother and I were investigated as part of a family murder. (My mom had been served divorced papers 3 days prior to her ex-husband's murder, and I had been physically abused by the same person years earlier ... so we were on the radar, albeit not real suspects by those who knew us). As much as it stinks, we remained POIs until such time as his "best friend" was charged 13 years later, convicted, and ultimately died in prison).

    Given that AG seemed to have a somewhat limited circle of friends, I/we?? are trying to look into any contacts she may have made, whether by herself or through others. I know of one case where a perp didn't even know the victim prior to the offence, but heard of her on ONE occasion at a social gathering.

    Any information you care to share is most welcome, but we certainly understand if you sit back and watch us struggling for answers and seeking justice for Audrey -- such a lovely lady who didn't deserve such a horrific end to her life.

  50. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to sillybilly For This Useful Post:


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