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  1. #346
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    Whoa--Just came upon this. Let me read and digest. And please, please remove the thought of my sweet Dad from the post about Mr. Burnett. That case is interesting as it closely follows another thread we have, concerning the axe murder of Matteo Patrick Giovanditto of Celebration, FL. last Thanksgiving. Mr. Giovanditto is thought to have been an abuser and we even have on board the mother of a prior victim. Lots of similarities there.

    Be back later after these articles have been thoroughly gone over. Thank you to a friend for alerting me to the updates!!


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  3. #347
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    Very good article and so well written! In the comments section someone mentions Jon Wells writes books, and recommends "Vanished" and "Post-Mortem" as excellent reads. (in case someone is interested)

    Some of the info we already knew about, but it is so well put together in the article. Other info is new to us.
    Quote Originally Posted by colette View Post
    The "as though making off with a souvenir" makes me wonder if a body part had been taken.
    I had that thought a long time ago, and reading this article today kinda corroborates my suspicions, though I noticed some emphasis on her 'rings' ... will need to re-read the article again and see if I still get the same feeling.

    One thing that caught my attention was that "Audrey" was not her real/original name. I cannot blame her for liking Audrey over Otte though.

    She worked two summers for Atomic Energy of Canada at the nuclear laboratories in Chalk River, 180 kilometres west of Ottawa.
    A densely academic article published in 1967 lists “A. Doveika” as one of the authors. The title: Compendium of Thermal Neutron Capture Ray Measurements.


    So it was Audrey and not her father (Anthony) who co-authored that article, like we have thought, and it was her who worked at Chalk River! (*thinking of Lachlan*)

    I had also thought like some of you that her sexuality sounded a bit ambiguous, but now that we found out she was married three times, am thinking we might have been barking the wrong tree. Sad to learn that she indeed wanted to have children and sad to learn she was left for a younger woman

    There are more new things to comment about, but will leave that for others ... the more I read and learn about Audrey, the more I like her.
    My posts are merely my humble opinion. Unless you are quoting within Websleuths Forums, you do not have my permission to copy nor use any post made by me for anything.
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  5. #348
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    OK, read it. At first blush, it's shocking just how much we got "right". There is this discordance, disconnect with the "different Audreys". When I read the frequent quote, "That's so Audrey", I always think to myself, which one?

    I'm struck by the fact that she was a local girl and lied about it. How could that have escaped so many other local people. Did absolutely no classmates of hers still live in the area. She specifically told people that she was born in Eastern Europe, IIRC, and that her mother disappeared. Compare that with her living and working very close to her parents for years. Possibly, her mother "disappeared" from her life as she wished her gone. Possibly, the mother forced an adoption on the young woman and there was resentment ever after.

    Another odd possibility is that maybe Audrey was not really Audrey as a local student. Maybe she was a male. The given name, Otte, is used for both girls and boys. Could the sexual component of her murder be connected to the fact that Audrey was not truly female but had presented herself as such for decades?

    The prohibition of using her name is very strange. What was she afraid of? Her third husband learned of her given name but it seems that he never discussed it with her. What name was on the marriage license? Did she officially change her name from Otte to Audrey? And what of these two earlier marriages? One was at age 16 so it's nigh impossible that it was to a younger person. For a promising student to marry at that age, one expects to see an unplanned pregnancy. Who are these men?

    I have to agree with N_S_U; I've always felt that there was a strong possibility of an inappropriate sexual connection to a student. Audrey didn't seem to follow conventions (that's why I've always suspected she might have been on the spectrum). I think she felt most comfortable with folks, especially men, who were bright, regardless of their age. After all, she allowed PK to get fairly close when she wouldn't allow a female neighbor in the house. She didn't even allow LVG, her best friend in.

    I think we're looking for someone younger than her from her past. Someone with whom she had sexual contact with. I've still not totally discounted the occult angle but the two theories could actually be intertwined.


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  7. #349
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    We posted at the same time, Hazel. Yes, could that body part have been a penis?


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  9. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missizzy View Post
    We posted at the same time, Hazel. Yes, could that body part have been a penis?
    What?!?!? Oh, no Missizzy! I was thinking more of a finger ... thinking the perp wanted to take her ring, and couldn't get it out. My original thought had been there had been mutilation, perhaps breasts? Never in a million years I thought she would have a penis!!!!!!
    She was married three times, I would imagine someone would have noticed LOL
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  11. #351
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    She could have been born with androgynous genitalia. I might be way off base but I keep coming back to a sexual body part being removed as a "trophy". I don't think the Police Chief would have blanched as he did if a finger had been removed. JMO.

    The marriages could have been shams. It surely seems that the 3rd one to AG was. Her first two husbands might have also been "unique".


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  13. #352
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    OK guys, I know I said I was going to leave new info for others to comment, but I just can't help myself for commenting on this ,,, is it just me, or something doesn't make sense?
    For years she met for coffee every Wednesday with retired teacher friends from Westdale Secondary School.
    They had no idea that Audrey had herself attended Westdale.
    (Respectfully cropping and just posting excerpts)
    On Monday, Dec. 27, 2010....She sent an email to Phil...she sent the same message later that day to Linda, a neighbour across the street....Later, she sent a new email, to Phil:
    Monday, Dec. 27, 2010, 10:46 a.m.
    By Sunday the weakness was disappearing but still there. And would you believe that this morning I got a secondary infection; runny nose, runny eyes, sneezing. But at least I don’t feel weak so don’t think I’ve a fever. I’m just annoyed with it. Hope it gets better because I intend to have coffee Wed. come hell or high water. I’ve got cabin fever. Lynne is coming over with soup in a few minutes.

    Bary


    Notice the time stamp: 10:46 a.m. (so was this the second e-mail she sent ONLY to Phil?) ...in a few minutes. ... so Lynne was expected before noon and not in the evening like we have been told before?

    And when did Audrey change her mind and decided to cancel the Wednesday coffee meet? In this e-mail she says she intends to have coffee Wed. come hell or high water. She also says she has 'cabin fever' .... didn't she go to Brandford the day before (Sunday)?

    As an aside, and am not claiming to be a doctor, but it seems to me Audrey didn't have a cold...sounds more like an allergic reaction, based mostly on the 'runny eyes' just my humble non-professional opinion
    My posts are merely my humble opinion. Unless you are quoting within Websleuths Forums, you do not have my permission to copy nor use any post made by me for anything.
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  15. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missizzy View Post
    I'm struck by the fact that she was a local girl and lied about it. How could that have escaped so many other local people. Did absolutely no classmates of hers still live in the area. She specifically told people that she was born in Eastern Europe, IIRC, and that her mother disappeared. Compare that with her living and working very close to her parents for years. Possibly, her mother "disappeared" from her life as she wished her gone. Possibly, the mother forced an adoption on the young woman and there was resentment ever after.
    respectfully snipped by me

    Agree, I also remember reading she was born in Eastern Europe and moved to Canada as a child. First time also that we learn her parents didn't come to Canada as a married couple with a child, but met here. Did her parents have other relatives in Canada or did they both move to Canada by themselves?

    Good point Missizzy as for the reason of Audrey not getting along with her mother! I imagine they would have been very attached and have a very loving and close relationship, being they didn't have family in Canada.

    Another reason for the resentment could have been a forced abortion, if things didn't go well, perhaps that could be a reason she couldn't have children? Just thinking out loud here, thinking of another possibility. Could be totally off the mark. So odd that she was so private about those early years, as if she was trying to separate herself from her past.
    My posts are merely my humble opinion. Unless you are quoting within Websleuths Forums, you do not have my permission to copy nor use any post made by me for anything.
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  17. #354
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    http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...-audrey-gleave
    Allan’s mother, Marjorie, who is 95 and lives in a Hamilton nursing home, lamented the end of the marriage.

    “Men don’t like women who are smarter than they are.”

    Allan left Audrey but, on occasion, dropped by Indian Trail to help with things. She started referring to him in conversation as Fartface, a nickname that would have resonated with Maxine, the crusty cartoon character she came to admire.

    Allan moved 400 kilometres away with the woman he had met in karate class and would marry. He settled up north, taking a chemical engineering job for a paper company in Sturgeon Falls. He never had kids and retired in 2001.

    In the divorce settlement, Allan signed the house over to Audrey. The house was important to both of them, he didn’t want anyone else to live there.

    “I’ll never sell it,” she told him.

    Audrey remained on Indian Trail, alone.

    Allan made trips back to Hamilton each year to visit his parents


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  19. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missizzy View Post
    She could have been born with androgynous genitalia. I might be way off base but I keep coming back to a sexual body part being removed as a "trophy". I don't think the Police Chief would have blanched as he did if a finger had been removed. JMO.

    The marriages could have been shams. It surely seems that the 3rd one to AG was. Her first two husbands might have also been "unique".
    Perhaps a sort of female "circumcision" would be considered "payback", for being intellectually "castrated".


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  21. #356
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    Thanks to Jon Wells at the Hamilton Spectator for this new information! A very interesting article,and more to come.

    I loved the photo of Audrey as a young woman, in her striped dress, assembling a TV. I can see how some had said she was 'hot', considering that she was a physics teacher. (But see the comments to the article, where one of her former students said she had become matronly by the time he had her as a teacher.)

    Audrey certainly was a mystery. Such a private person.

    Regarding the email sent to PK, she mentions having cabin fever. That might have been her way of justifying to PK that she had told him that she was too sick to see him around Christmas, and had deferred their get-together until the Thursday. She might not have wanted to admit to PK that she had been to LV's place on Boxing Day.

    It's also interesting that AG said she was going to go to her Wednesday coffee group meeting, yet on the very same day she told the group that she wasn't going to attend. I always wondered why she told the group so far ahead. I wondered how she would know for certain that she wouldn't be well enough to attend.

    Has anyone ever seen mention of the assumed time of death? could it have been on the Monday?

    I can't wait to read the rest of the series. The jounalist has come up with some interesting new information already.
    Any man's death diminishes me,
    Because I am involved in mankind,
    Therefore, send not to know, for whom the bell tolls;
    It tolls for thee.
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  23. #357
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    I don't believe they've ever released a time of death.


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  25. #358
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    Lightbulb

    After having slept on all of this info, I've come to the following conclusions (which are not necessarily correct):

    - the killer knew Audrey and her dogs (that's why the dogs didn't raise a fuss)
    - the killer resented Audrey's superior intelligence (he also might be very intelligent but not up to Audrey's level)
    - the killer used a knife and perhaps an axe to kill and mutilate her
    - the sexual component was either mutilation and/or shoving the knife-end (or axe end) into the vagina
    - the media is working with LE in order to draw the killer out (ie. having the killer respond to a detail about him which might not be correct)

    Those are my thoughts now........

    ETA: After re-reading the article yet again, this struck me:

    More unusual was Audrey’s insistence that anyone emailing refer to her as Baryon, or Bary, even within the text of a message.

    She made it clear if you wrote her real first name, at any time, you would be cut off.


    I'm now wondering if Audrey had received threats against her. Threats so bad that she insisted on being referred to as Baryon on a computer! The name 'Bary' could be read as a male person rather than a vulnerable female.
    Last edited by No_Stone_Unturned; 09-18-2011 at 09:44 AM. Reason: added a thought
    Seeking justice for Audrey Gleave
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  27. #359
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    Lightbulb

    Oooops, didn't get back here in time to add this to my post above. However, I re-read the article again and now this struck me heavily:


    Safarik asked rhetorically when considering the Gleave case. “Hmm … My advice is look young and look close.”


    OK, so how many young men live close to Audrey's house?

    One would think this would be a slam-dunk by now........
    Seeking justice for Audrey Gleave
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    *ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN OPINIONS UNLESS I GIVE A LINK OR REFER TO OTHERS*
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    “The inspiration you seek is already inside you. Be silent and listen." ~ Rumi


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  29. #360
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    I imagine December would be a busy time for visiting relatives or university students on holiday ..


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