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  1. #1
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    Dan Dorn seeks to deprive paralyzed woman of visitation with her kids

    Maybe it's just me, but this doesn't sound like a very good way to teach your children compassion and tolerance. What a horribly misguided individual.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42251738...and_parenting/

  2. #2
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    It says the kids have already seen her once and want to see her again. If that's true, I hope the judge takes it into account.
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

  3. #3
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    I think that man is things I cannot post here.
    I think the grandparents AND the mother have a right to see and hold those children.
    Knowing her children are there may just give the mother an edge towards better cognitive function. I know it would me!!

  4. #4
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    On the poll beneath the story, 95% say she should be able to see her kids. I agree.

  5. #5
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    I don't understand why these kids haven't seen their mother prior to this? One visit at four years old?!

    He should've gone out of his way to make sure those kids saw their mother and formed a bond with her, regardless of her condition.

    IMO he has deprived them and deserves to be stripped of his custody.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCmakes3 View Post
    Maybe it's just me, but this doesn't sound like a very good way to teach your children compassion and tolerance. What a horribly misguided individual.
    I fully expected to agree with you, CC, but after reading the article I'm not sure. The doctor couldn't get the mother to blink yes and no "reliably." So the grandparents claim that the mother has a right "to hold her children" is nonsense; the mother isn't able to hold anyone. ("Holding" isn't the underlying right being claimed, of course, visitation is. I just thought the use of language was disingenuous, whether the grandparents or the reporter are to blame.)

    But the grandparents are demanding that the father drag three 5-year-olds across the country to spend time with a mother who may or may not even blink in response to them. Somehow I think that's a lot to ask of children that young.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyL View Post
    I don't understand why these kids haven't seen their mother prior to this? One visit at four years old?!

    He should've gone out of his way to make sure those kids saw their mother and formed a bond with her, regardless of her condition.

    IMO he has deprived them and deserves to be stripped of his custody.
    How do 2-year-olds "bond" with a non-responsive parent?

  8. #8
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    I don't know...a yearly vacation to see the grandparents in Myrtle Beach doesn't sound too horrible! It doesn't sound as if they plan to leave the kids unattended with her. I would think it would be more traumatizing to tell them they need to just forget about her because she is disabled. Chances are they will one day find out that it was their birth that caused her disability and regret not having been able to spend time with her. As someone who works with disabled individuals, I can tell you that exposing my children to interactions with these people has greatly enriched their lives. They have become patient, compassionate indivduals whom others congratulate me upon frequently.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    How do 2-year-olds "bond" with a non-responsive parent?
    I have managed to bond with a number of unresponsive people in my line of work, and my children are beginning to learn how to do the same. It's a matter of the inner peace and happiness you feel when brightening the meager existence of someone who doesn't have a lot of true friends. It's not a laugh riot by any means, but a quiet kind of joy and satisfaction nonetheless.

  10. #10
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    I certainly don't mean to imply that I'm all sugar and no spice, however... I do count myself among the people who wouldn't want my children to have the responsibility of holding a peanut-allergy sufferer's life in their hands at school, so I'm certainly not going to hold my compassion up against anyone else's. To each his own! :-)


  11. #11
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    Jul 2009
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    Remember this story, it's heartbreaking...

    here is what was on last year with video of mother & her parents.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/video/f...-kids-10370328

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCmakes3 View Post
    I have managed to bond with a number of unresponsive people in my line of work, and my children are beginning to learn how to do the same. It's a matter of the inner peace and happiness you feel when brightening the meager existence of someone who doesn't have a lot of true friends. It's not a laugh riot by any means, but a quiet kind of joy and satisfaction nonetheless.
    I'm not contradicting you, CC, and I readily acknowledge that this is your area of expertise. But I have known a few 2-year-olds in my life and I wouldn't say "inner peace and happiness" was their most notable quality.

    Responding to your previous post, I wonder how much of this is about interaction with the maternal grandparents. I don't know what South Carolina's law (or California's) is on that subject, but I do think the children would benefit from knowing their mother's parents.

    And when they reach an age where they can make the decision, they might benefit from visiting their mother. But I'd hate to see annual (semiannual, whatever) trips to sit with mother while she doesn't respond become a hateful chore for these children. That might well prevent the benefits you describe from aiding a disabled person voluntarily, something they might discover for themselves later in life.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCmakes3 View Post
    I certainly don't mean to imply that I'm all sugar and no spice, however... I do count myself among the people who wouldn't want my children to have the responsibility of holding a peanut-allergy sufferer's life in their hands at school, so I'm certainly not going to hold my compassion up against anyone else's. To each his own! :-)
    I didn't think you were presenting yourself as "holier-than-thou," CC. "Thou" would be I, I guess, since I'm the only one here who questions the wisdom of forcing the children to visit their mother.

    By the same token and though I'm not presenting myself as the champion of the disabled, I normally think we all benefit by supporting the rights of those with handicaps. Certainly, as a teacher I followed Title XII requirements scrupulously and never found them a burden.

    But this case and the very severe peanut allergy case both raise difficult questions, I think.

  14. #14
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    Sounds as if mom may or may not be capable of responding depending on who you believe. I think this is tragic if the mother is congnizent to the absence of her children while I do understand that she cannot "hold" her children per se, she could still benefit from seeing them. What is most important is what is best for the children. I do not have the answer to that, but do understand that it would be difficult indeed to explain to very young children the situation and why mommy is not like other mommies.

    I also feel badly for the grandparents not being able to see their grandchildren. It saddens me that grandparents don't have much in the way of rights in regards to visitation with grandchildren in this country.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlcox View Post
    Sounds as if mom may or may not be capable of responding depending on who you believe. I think this is tragic if the mother is congnizent to the absence of her children while I do understand that she cannot "hold" her children per se, she could still benefit from seeing them. What is most important is what is best for the children. I do not have the answer to that, but do understand that it would be difficult indeed to explain to very young children the situation and why mommy is not like other mommies.

    I also feel badly for the grandparents not being able to see their grandchildren. It saddens me that grandparents don't have much in the way of rights in regards to visitation with grandchildren in this country.
    Totally agree about the grandparents. (I admit I'm biased, being a grandparent myself, but also having preferred my grandparents to my parents.)

    I realize we only have a brief news account and so I'm speculating here: but I wonder if the central issue isn't the way the husband conceptualizes his ex-wife v. the way her parents do. The husband seems to have decided his ex is in a perpetually vegetative state; perhaps he is inclined to do so since it justifies his divorcing the mother of his children and moving away. The parents, quite understandably since they continue to care for their daughter, see her as a cognizant human being; and maybe they need to do that in order to face the daily effort to care for her.

    In each case, the party is fighting for a specific conceptualization of the mother. The kids are caught in the middle. I'm not sure a court can make the kids think of their mother one way or another. I agree with CC that the children may have much to gain from thinking of their mother as a person with special needs but also much to give; however, I fear a court order will leave them thinking of "Mom" as the "zombie" they have to visit twice a year. Sorry to be blunt, but I'm trying to think of it from the view of a child.

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