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  1. #1

    2011.03.24 - Deputy Jason Forgey Testimony At Casey Anthony Hearing

    Discuss Deputy Forgey's testimony here.

    http://www.wftv.com/video/27307246/index.html

    Stay on topic.

  2. #2
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    TakeNote is offline Mother to little post it my boy wonder & Founding Member of AFKBPOFPOPL
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    I was having a hard time finding number 4 and 5 from the new's web site....but did find them in our daily threads so thought I would list them here to make it easier for anyone else who may have had the same trouble

    number 1 http://www.wftv.com/video/27307246/index.html
    number 2 http://www.wftv.com/video/27307539/index.html
    number 3 http://www.wftv.com/video/27308085/index.html
    number 4 http://www.wftv.com/video/27309222/index.html
    number 5 http://www.wftv.com/video/27309080/index.html

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    It seemed to me that while JB was questioning him that any time the deputy was allowed to talk about something I actually wanted to hear, it was always kept very brief or the subject was changed but here are the things I found most interesting...

    I won't even comment on JB's lengthy questioning about training and records and reports except to say that after watching the deputy struggle to answer JB's poorly phrased questions and then seeing how differently he was when responding to LDB's concise and specific questioning, I thought for a moment that it was a different officer on the stand. One must watch it for themselves to understand what I'm referring to, but it really was like night and day. For me whatever points JB was trying to make about poor training or poor record keeping or reports was completely obliterated when LDB went thru her questions with this witness.

    JB did eventually let the deputy talk a little about what was meant by the terms "alert" and "final trained alert" and it helped me to understand a bit better about how a dog lets the handler know that he has found something with an alert (signs the handler observes in the dog's behavior like the breathing and the tail and the stance and prance) and zeroed in on the particular location with the final trained alert which is an action that the particular dog is trained to do.

    I had been puzzled about comments from the A's that the dogs alerted but then didn't alert since early on and for me - I never really understood what they were talking about. And that was cleared up with the deputy's testimony here about how on the 2nd day when the dogs did not alert that some top soil and such had been removed. I'm sure that's probably been brought out before but I guess I missed it.

    I think that JB's purpose with this witness was to keep this testimony out of the trial, but for me it just solidified that it should be allowed and that the dog did alert on decomp in the car and that both dogs did in the yard. I did have a tiny bit of doubt about that before so I guess I'd like to thank JB for clearing that up for me!
    I know that you think you understand what you thought you heard me say, but, I'm not sure that you realize that what you heard me say is not really what I meant to convey.

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    TakeNote is offline Mother to little post it my boy wonder & Founding Member of AFKBPOFPOPL
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    Quote Originally Posted by aafromaa View Post
    It seemed to me that while JB was questioning him that any time the deputy was allowed to talk about something I actually wanted to hear, it was always kept very brief or the subject was changed but here are the things I found most interesting...

    I won't even comment on JB's lengthy questioning about training and records and reports except to say that after watching the deputy struggle to answer JB's poorly phrased questions and then seeing how differently he was when responding to LDB's concise and specific questioning, I thought for a moment that it was a different officer on the stand. One must watch it for themselves to understand what I'm referring to, but it really was like night and day. For me whatever points JB was trying to make about poor training or poor record keeping or reports was completely obliterated when LDB went thru her questions with this witness.

    JB did eventually let the deputy talk a little about what was meant by the terms "alert" and "final trained alert" and it helped me to understand a bit better about how a dog lets the handler know that he has found something with an alert (signs the handler observes in the dog's behavior like the breathing and the tail and the stance and prance) and zeroed in on the particular location with the final trained alert which is an action that the particular dog is trained to do.

    I had been puzzled about comments from the A's that the dogs alerted but then didn't alert since early on and for me - I never really understood what they were talking about. And that was cleared up with the deputy's testimony here about how on the 2nd day when the dogs did not alert that some top soil and such had been removed. I'm sure that's probably been brought out before but I guess I missed it. I think that JB's purpose with this witness was to keep this testimony out of the trial, but for me it just solidified that it should be allowed and that the dog did alert on decomp in the car and that both dogs did in the yard. I did have a tiny bit of doubt about that before so I guess I'd like to thank JB for clearing that up for me!
    bold by me this was also cleared up for me as well......the area the dogs alerted on had been changed in some way.....

    I dont remember hearing if the yard had been under gaurd until the next day though....does anyone else know?....was the yard and area secured from anyone tampering with it until LE came back the next day?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TakeNote View Post
    bold by me this was also cleared up for me as well......the area the dogs alerted on had been changed in some way.....

    I dont remember hearing if the yard had been under gaurd until the next day though....does anyone else know?....was the yard and area secured from anyone tampering with it until LE came back the next day?
    I don't know about whether it was under guard or not but I didn't take the deputy's testimony to imply that anyone had tampered with it, but rather that LE had removed some of the top soil and such in that area and IIRC the local news did report they were in fact out there digging around after the dogs had originaly alerted. I had just not thought about that changing what the dogs would be able to find on a 2nd search.

    BTW I couldn't believe JB asked the deputy for any possible reasons that the 1st search wouldn't be considered a false positive since the dogs didn't alert during the 2nd search. When the deputy suggested that a deceased victim had been placed on top of the ground without being buried and then moved, I couldn't help wondering if JB knew that lawyers shouldn't ask questions they don't already know the answer to. Me thinks JB shot himself in the foot on that one.(I looked for a smiley icon for that one & couldn't find it - so I'll use this instead...
    I know that you think you understand what you thought you heard me say, but, I'm not sure that you realize that what you heard me say is not really what I meant to convey.

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    Out of all the witnesses I've watched so far, he was clearly the most nervous. JB bounced all over the place and confused him several times. I think it's clear he has tons of experience and cares about what he does. I will say I think he should have went over his depo testimony a lot better. He wasn't even sure where his dog started when inspecting the car. The women K-9 officer did a much better job testifying IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aafromaa View Post
    I don't know about whether it was under guard or not but I didn't take the deputy's testimony to imply that anyone had tampered with it, but rather that LE had removed some of the top soil and such in that area and IIRC the local news did report they were in fact out there digging around after the dogs had originaly alerted. I had just not thought about that changing what the dogs would be able to find on a 2nd search.

    BTW I couldn't believe JB asked the deputy for any possible reasons that the 1st search wouldn't be considered a false positive since the dogs didn't alert during the 2nd search. When the deputy suggested that a deceased victim had been placed on top of the ground without being buried and then moved, I couldn't help wondering if JB knew that lawyers shouldn't ask questions they don't already know the answer to. Me thinks JB shot himself in the foot on that one.(I looked for a smiley icon for that one & couldn't find it - so I'll use this instead...
    Well yes that was a textbook moment with this witness. Second only to
    JB "Well how do you know the dog was giving a false positive (whatever the hell that is) on the car?"
    DepF "Well because I smelled it to! I know what death and decomposition smells like. I've smelled it hundreds of times in the field, in training and while training the dogs"

    Yep! He got another, previously unconsidered fully qualified professional investigative/LE witness to state in sworn testimony before the court, that he was experienced and qualified at discerning the smell of human decomposition, and that he clearly smelled it in that vehicle. WAY TO GO JB!

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    Quote Originally Posted by faefrost View Post
    Well yes that was a textbook moment with this witness. Second only to
    JB "Well how do you know the dog was giving a false positive (whatever the hell that is) on the car?"
    DepF "Well because I smelled it to! I know what death and decomposition smells like. I've smelled it hundreds of times in the field, in training and while training the dogs"

    Yep! He got another, previously unconsidered fully qualified professional investigative/LE witness to state in sworn testimony before the court, that he was experienced and qualified at discerning the smell of human decomposition, and that he clearly smelled it in that vehicle. WAY TO GO JB!
    I'd almost forgot about that one - but I do now recall thinking more than once that JB reminded me of a little peewee football player who didn't normally get the ball and wasn't quite sure what to do with it - but happened to recover a fumble and decided run for a touch down and was so focused on his opportunity to shine that he didn't realize that he was headed for the other team's goal...Score!!!
    I know that you think you understand what you thought you heard me say, but, I'm not sure that you realize that what you heard me say is not really what I meant to convey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MD MOMMY View Post
    Out of all the witnesses I've watched so far, he was clearly the most nervous. JB bounced all over the place and confused him several times. I think it's clear he has tons of experience and cares about what he does. I will say I think he should have went over his depo testimony a lot better. He wasn't even sure where his dog started when inspecting the car. The women K-9 officer did a much better job testifying IMO.
    IIRC, he was on the stand a lot longer than the other officer....the questioning (nit picking) that he got from jb was repetitive--think any nerves that he showed were due to what jb was trying to accomplish (Failed---and bad very bad attempt)---to get him to say what ever jb was after...he has a very weird questioning thing---goes from one thing to another than back---he was also playing aggresser...I felt for the officer along with the good doctor....it was painful on my end --- I can only imagine what it was like for them...they would answer and if he didn't like it well---another five hours....

    jmo

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    Quote Originally Posted by MD MOMMY View Post
    Out of all the witnesses I've watched so far, he was clearly the most nervous. JB bounced all over the place and confused him several times. I think it's clear he has tons of experience and cares about what he does. I will say I think he should have went over his depo testimony a lot better. He wasn't even sure where his dog started when inspecting the car. The women K-9 officer did a much better job testifying IMO.
    ITA...he was trying to confuse the deputy but the deputy was too smart for him...he said to him, well we were in 2005 now your in 2008...and Baez always takes it one question to far and it always winds up going to the States benefit...way to go Baez....he really needs to find another profession this one ain't working for him....JMHO


    Justice for Caylee


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    Quote Originally Posted by aafromaa View Post
    I don't know about whether it was under guard or not but I didn't take the deputy's testimony to imply that anyone had tampered with it, but rather that LE had removed some of the top soil and such in that area and IIRC the local news did report they were in fact out there digging around after the dogs had originaly alerted. I had just not thought about that changing what the dogs would be able to find on a 2nd search.

    BTW I couldn't believe JB asked the deputy for any possible reasons that the 1st search wouldn't be considered a false positive since the dogs didn't alert during the 2nd search. When the deputy suggested that a deceased victim had been placed on top of the ground without being buried and then moved, I couldn't help wondering if JB knew that lawyers shouldn't ask questions they don't already know the answer to. Me thinks JB shot himself in the foot on that one.(I looked for a smiley icon for that one & couldn't find it - so I'll use this instead...
    ^
    l
    l
    What she said

    I wish the camera was on the DT when the good Deputy said a dead body might have been there . IMO JB completely helped the SA's case because this was for HHJP's benefit,not a jury with little SD experience.
    Always ,just my opinion





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    I don't think that the deputy was nervous or confused at all. I think that he knew exactly what JB was doing and that he knew that JB was clueless and that he was trying to force JB to clarify his questions by acting confused.


    It was so obvious that JB ahs never worked with an animal at all and that the only preparation that he had done for questioning the deputy was to glance through the book that he kept addressing. You could see him back there smirking when the deputy was trying to explain how the dog alerted versus the full trained alert. Anyone that has ever dealt with a dog can clearly tell when a dog is paying attention to what it is doing, when it is "working" and when it has found something that it is interested in.

    Then JB kept trying to change what the deputy was saying and I'm not so sure that was intentional. I think that it was pure ignorance. The deputy had a note in his training log that the dog was distracted by dog urine during a training session and JB grabbed onto that and started calling it a false positive. I thought that the deputy did a great job in correcting JB when he was allowed to.


    I could see the deputy looking at him some times like WTH, you are so far out in left field that I can't even find you to answer your dumb questions. So the confusion was based around there is no answer to the question that you are attempting to ask considering how you are asking it.



    Sorry for the lengthy post. I got to watch JB in action for the first time yesterday and he is just unbelievable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aafromaa View Post
    I don't know about whether it was under guard or not but I didn't take the deputy's testimony to imply that anyone had tampered with it, but rather that LE had removed some of the top soil and such in that area and IIRC the local news did report they were in fact out there digging around after the dogs had originaly alerted. I had just not thought about that changing what the dogs would be able to find on a 2nd search.

    BTW I couldn't believe JB asked the deputy for any possible reasons that the 1st search wouldn't be considered a false positive since the dogs didn't alert during the 2nd search. When the deputy suggested that a deceased victim had been placed on top of the ground without being buried and then moved, I couldn't help wondering if JB knew that lawyers shouldn't ask questions they don't already know the answer to. Me thinks JB shot himself in the foot on that one.(I looked for a smiley icon for that one & couldn't find it - so I'll use this instead...
    BBM: JBs logic is so twisted, he should be an Anthony . Last night I walked my dog and a woman came out of her house walking her two big dogs who got very excited to see mine. She waited in the corner of her yard til we went around the bend. So today I walked my dog past her yard and didn't my dog go straight to the corner where they had been, and was sniffing and sniffing in circles. It was no false positive!!! She could smell those dogs had been there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zoey View Post
    IIRC, he was on the stand a lot longer than the other officer....the questioning (nit picking) that he got from jb was repetitive--think any nerves that he showed were due to what jb was trying to accomplish (Failed---and bad very bad attempt)---to get him to say what ever jb was after...he has a very weird questioning thing---goes from one thing to another than back---he was also playing aggresser...I felt for the officer along with the good doctor....it was painful on my end --- I can only imagine what it was like for them...they would answer and if he didn't like it well---another five hours....

    He absolutely was on the stand a heck of a lot longer. IMO, JB thought he was clearly a better target than the female officer. She came across more confident and not edgy. I would have kept him on the stand longer too, just to try. I think Forgey did an okay job considering what he went through. I just wish he were more concise on the facts and less dependant upon reading his past testimony. I did feel bad for him.
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