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  1. #1
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    Could lead codices prove ‘the major discovery of Christian history’?

    I'm not real religious.. but I love old things and the fact that these are probably 2,000 years old is really cool!!!!!

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theloo...istian-history



    British archaeologists are seeking to authenticate what could be a landmark discovery in the documentation of early Christianity: a trove of 70 lead codices that appear to date from the 1st century CE, which may include key clues to the last days of Jesus' life.
    Last edited by peeples; 03-30-2011 at 09:11 PM. Reason: Putting in a better title LOL

  2. #2
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    I had to look it up. *(

    I believe that there are many things in many forms as yet to be discovered.

    Thanks for the thread. Extremely interesting.
    Bless the beasts and the children
    For in this world they have no voice,
    They have no choice.

    I’ve gone to look for myself. If I should return before I get back, keep me here.
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  3. #3
    THANK YOU for posting this! Biblical archaeology is fascinating, IMO!

  4. #4
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    So tiny! It reminds me of the cuneiforms from Sumer. The lead factor is unfortunate-- knowing what we know now. jmo

  5. #5
    belimom's Avatar
    belimom is offline Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter ~MLK Jr
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    After seeing your post, I checked the FB page of an old college boyfriend who got his PhD in Religion and now teaches New Testament. Sure enough, he had commented on it - and included this link:

    http://rogueclassicism.com/2011/03/3...ces-silliness/

    Seems that there are quite a few skeptics out there about their authenticity. I haven't read the article but I'll go read it now...

    ETA: Haven't gotten very far but here's a snippet from the above link:

    Okay … let’s stop there and just note some things: we have 20 codices (that’s a rather large number, but not suspicious in itself), made from cast lead (whiskey tango foxtrot … first alarms should be going off), then we get phrases like “Kabbalah-related” and “magical incantation style of writiing” (second set of alarms go off). Alarms might also go off for some with the mention of Robert Feather’s involvement (he has ‘interesting’ interpretations of the Copper Scroll and assorted other things).
    ETA again: An explanation later on about the cast lead (this is just one point of many, btw):

    So let’s get back to setting off alarms. First we have this ‘cast lead’ thing again … I would be very happy if anyone can point me to an example of a cast lead codex of any kind from any period. As far as I’m aware, this would have been utterly unprecedented at the time. Even Roman military diplomas (in bronze) were incised. Of course, if these ‘books’ were so important, one has to wonder why such a malleable medium such as lead would be used. So that alarm bell is ringing loud and clear.
    Last edited by belimom; 03-30-2011 at 09:43 PM.
    Fly high and free, Jhessye ~

    My posts are meant to help think through possibilities and are strictly an additional opinion under circumstances when many points of view need to be considered. I apologize in advance to anyone whose potential involvement is contemplated in error. Please understand that much of what is happening is merely brainstorming during unfortunate events.

  6. #6
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    Oops, sounds like a fake...and "discovered" around the time that The DaVinci Code was really popular. It's too bad folks do this, but it's nothing new.

  7. #7
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    Certainly is sad. What's even sadder is, if you read the comments under the article above, the posters were all so positive as noted. No wonder people are so disillusioned anymore.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Quiche View Post
    Oops, sounds like a fake...and "discovered" around the time that The DaVinci Code was really popular. It's too bad folks do this, but it's nothing new.
    Really? Doggoneit.


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reality Orlando View Post
    Certainly is sad. What's even sadder is, if you read the comments under the article above, the posters were all so positive as noted. No wonder people are so disillusioned anymore.
    Perhaps. But with the surge of Christian Fundamentalism over the past few decades, controversies such as this one should serve to remind us that NO contemporary accounts of Jesus have been discovered. The only contemporary mention, by Josephus, is brief and believed to be a later addition. The lack of references to Jesus in mid-1st century documents is very odd considering that the Gospels describe the Jews and Romans in an uproar over the revolutionary threat posed by the Nazarene. Moreover, the miracle of His resurrection should have interested non-believers as well as believers, so one wonders why none of the contemporary documents we have (not even Josephus) mentions it (even if only to dismiss the story as a lie).

    The texts we read today are not only translations of translations (from Greek or Aramaic to English, or to Latin to English, depending on the version one reads), they are translations of copies of copies of copies, all done by hand and subject to the whims of the copyists. We have a few documents that date from a few decades after Jesus' crucifixion, but most of what remains comes from hundreds of years later.

    So we might all exercise a little humility when we insist we know what God has said or done.

  10. #10
    belimom's Avatar
    belimom is offline Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter ~MLK Jr
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post

    (...snip...)

    The texts we read today are not only translations of translations (from Greek or Aramaic to English, or to Latin to English, depending on the version one reads), they are translations of copies of copies of copies, all done by hand and subject to the whims of the copyists. We have a few documents that date from a few decades after Jesus' crucifixion, but most of what remains comes from hundreds of years later.

    So we might all exercise a little humility when we insist we know what God has said or done.
    So true. I took a few religion courses in college, including New Testament Canonization. I learned that the scribes would write notes to each other in the margins and they would be included in the text down the road... It really is very fascinating.
    Fly high and free, Jhessye ~

    My posts are meant to help think through possibilities and are strictly an additional opinion under circumstances when many points of view need to be considered. I apologize in advance to anyone whose potential involvement is contemplated in error. Please understand that much of what is happening is merely brainstorming during unfortunate events.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by belimom View Post
    So true. I took a few religion courses in college, including New Testament Canonization. I learned that the scribes would write notes to each other in the margins and they would be included in the text down the road... It really is very fascinating.
    We who live in a post-Enlightment world really have to work to get into the heads of those ancient copyists. They did not think of literature as objective fact of the sort we expect from a history book or a modern newspaper, so they often added interpolations to a text, "fixing" it as they copied in the interest of greater spiritual or metaphorical "truth". (And, as you point out, they jotted down notes to themselves and one another: paper was scarce and expensive in Europe during much of the Middle Ages.)

    That's what most scholars think happened with the one brief reference to Jesus in Josephus: some copyist along the line thought, "Well, he was alive at the same time as Jesus so I'm sure he meant to mention Him." Et voila!

    This is NOT to say that Jesus didn't exist historically or that anyone need give up his or her faith. But we have far less direct, scientific proof than one might think, given the influence of Christianity.

  12. #12
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    We walk by faith, not by sight, which is how God wants it, I believe. And He will likely always keep that partial veil there until the end of time. Anyone can have something shown to them and believe, that does not require faith. So this is not relevant to the faith at all, although I also find biblical archaeology very interesting.


    Follow me on the Twitter! @EricDiesel1972

    Deuteronomy 18:10-12 (KJV)

    10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord. (KJV)

    Follow me at my Biblical Blog: http://scripture-demystified.blogspot.com

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  13. #13
    Truthful Lies's Avatar
    Truthful Lies is offline "Life shrinks and expands in proportion to one's courage" ~ Anaïs Nin
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    Nova,

    Thanks for your posts. I concentrated in Jewish/Christian polemics in the middle ages and well, basically researching for myself wether I thought the bible was legit or not. I was astounded by what I learned while researching in college.

    Every single writer in the bible has an axe to grind or some other reason for putting their own spin on it - it's like a big, long game of telephone. Since so few people could read/write, they were pretty free to add, delete what they didn't like.

    Don't get me wrong, I think the bible is a wonderful collection of life-lessons and teachings....and I do believe in a higher power.

    Thanks, Nova. This is so often a hot topic.

    ETA: hugs and kisses to you, Dark Knight! Sometimes I wish I hadn't gone down that road. Since I had planned on law school, I thought, "Well, why don't I find out for myself what so many people spend their life wondering about"....it changed me forever and I'd gladly trade the knowledge for some "faith" back.
    Last edited by Truthful Lies; 04-01-2011 at 09:30 AM.
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  14. #14
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    Even during my youth of devout evangelism, I understood Biblical language to be poetic rather than scientific (which doesn't make it more or less true than history, just different). So educating myself didn't threaten my faith, it merely provoked an evolution in my beliefs.

    Certainty is sometimes more comforting than questioning, but that doesn't mean it is better.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truthful Lies View Post
    Nova,

    Thanks for your posts. I concentrated in Jewish/Christian polemics in the middle ages and well, basically researching for myself wether I thought the bible was legit or not. I was astounded by what I learned while researching in college.

    Every single writer in the bible has an axe to grind or some other reason for putting their own spin on it - it's like a big, long game of telephone. Since so few people could read/write, they were pretty free to add, delete what they didn't like.

    Don't get me wrong, I think the bible is a wonderful collection of life-lessons and teachings....and I do believe in a higher power.

    Thanks, Nova. This is so often a hot topic.

    ETA: hugs and kisses to you, Dark Knight! Sometimes I wish I hadn't gone down that road. Since I had planned on law school, I thought, "Well, why don't I find out for myself what so many people spend their life wondering about"....it changed me forever and I'd gladly trade the knowledge for some "faith" back.
    BBM: You viewed the bible through a natural lens rather than a supernatural one. That's where people get hung up.


    Follow me on the Twitter! @EricDiesel1972

    Deuteronomy 18:10-12 (KJV)

    10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord. (KJV)

    Follow me at my Biblical Blog: http://scripture-demystified.blogspot.com

    Baruch ha Shem Adonai.

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